The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

[Wol4ine]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

So the Bush Administration didn't start the Bailouts? The economy was nice and strong under Junior? Is this an alternate reality?

Really?
The Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) was signed into law by U.S. President George W. Bush on October 3, 2008
The federal takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac by the U.S. Treasury occurred on September 6, 2008 while George W. Bush was still president.

The only decision that was Obama's was the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (aka stimulus package). The rest of those things were all Bush's doing.

During 2008 (Jan 1 -Dec 31), the US debt increased from $9.23 trillion to 10.70 trillion, an increase of nearly $1.5 trillion.

Are you actually this dumb or do you just play a moron on tv?

I don't know how you can make my point in one post, and entirely miss my point in that same post. I fear my mistake was using a 4 letter word (b-u-s-h). You guys automatically go into attack mode when you hear it. Keplers post infered that "if we ended the wars (and didn't start replacement wars), let the tax cuts expire, and means-tested entitlements, we would have a perfectly reasonable budget . My point was that even with the wars & tax cuts our deficit never exceded $0.5 Trillion. That is, until we started spending money on TARP, Stimulous, etc., etc.,.... As Almington points out, that spending came a month or two before you-know-who's term ended. I don't care WHO spent it. I just want it stopped. The deficit is 3 times higher now than it was with just the wars and tax cuts.

 

[joecct]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Seems we have another scandel. This one from the Pacific Northwest where a congressman is said to have been Pitching Woo.

Back to more important matters - a pox on both their parties and houses.

 

[Foxton]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I don't know how you can make my point in one post, and entirely miss my point in that same post. I fear my mistake was using a 4 letter word (b-u-s-h). You guys automatically go into attack mode when you hear it. Keplers post infered that "if we ended the wars (and didn't start replacement wars), let the tax cuts expire, and means-tested entitlements, we would have a perfectly reasonable budget . My point was that even with the wars & tax cuts our deficit never exceded $0.5 Trillion. That is, until we started spending money on TARP, Stimulous, etc., etc.,.... As Almington points out, that spending came a month or two before you-know-who's term ended. I don't care WHO spent it. I just want it stopped. The deficit is 3 times higher now than it was with just the wars and tax cuts.

The wars were kept off the books until Obama took office, that part of your argument is invalid.

 

[Almington]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I don't know how you can make my point in one post, and entirely miss my point in that same post. I fear my mistake was using a 4 letter word (b-u-s-h). You guys automatically go into attack mode when you hear it. Keplers post infered that "if we ended the wars (and didn't start replacement wars), let the tax cuts expire, and means-tested entitlements, we would have a perfectly reasonable budget . My point was that even with the wars & tax cuts our deficit never exceded $0.5 Trillion. That is, until we started spending money on TARP, Stimulous, etc., etc.,.... As Almington points out, that spending came a month or two before you-know-who's term ended. I don't care WHO spent it. I just want it stopped. The deficit is 3 times higher now than it was with just the wars and tax cuts.

You said flat out that Bush only had to deal with 2 of those, and that's not the case. People don't jump down your through for posting Bush, they jump down your throat for posting lies and inaccuracies.

Answer this question: During 2008 (Jan 1 to Dec 31), the US debt increased from $9.23 trillion to 10.70 trillion, an increase of nearly $1.5 trillion. How did the debt increase by 1.5 trillion if the deficit never exceeded 0.5 trillion (1.5 trillion > 0.5 trillion)?

The wars are winding down (however slowly). The bailouts are winding down. The stimulus package is winding down. The (supposedly temporary) tax cuts are not, and they need to go to increase government revenues to balance the federal budget.

The one thing of spending that Obama did do was the one time stimulus package, he isn't responsible for initiating the wars, medicare part D, the bailouts, the tax cuts, or the economic downturn. He inherited all of those when he became president.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

There's a poll asking how the impending default will effect you in the poll section.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I find it laughable that the GOP cries about the Democrats not having a plan, yet every time one is proposed they walk out.

Blame the Democrats at the end of 2010. They handed the GOP an extension of all the Bush tax cuts for no reason whatsoever, so of course the GOP isn't going to compromise now.

 

[unofan]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Blame the Democrats at the end of 2010. They handed the GOP an extension of all the Bush tax cuts for no reason whatsoever, so of course the GOP isn't going to compromise now.

You're probably right on this one...it would've been better to shut the goverment down then than to default on the debt now. The GOP's clearly overplayd its hand this time around, but the damage would've been far less had this **** been settled then and the debt ceiling could just get passed clean.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

More importantly, had the government shut down then, I still would've been paid since my agency's budget had already passed.

Hopefully the big money guys step in soon and restore sanity to this process and remind the partisans who is really funding their campaigns.

 

[leswp1]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I was listening to an interview from one of the ostriches yesterday (congressman from down south) who was splitting hairs about how we wouldn't crash on the 2nd because the date isn't etched in stone and the SS $ would be there. Fascinating. Unfortunately he appears to be failing to consider that there are repercussions that come from being a bunch of dolts ie the markets aren't going to care whether only part of the default is the 2nd. They care that we have idiots controlling the purse strings.

 

[joecct]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Anyone want to bet that the willy-nilly rush to a debt agreement is going to yield up a ton of unintended consequences like health care?

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

"I'm happy warrior," quipped Boehner as he entered a closed-door session about the debt limit with rank-and-file House Republicans early Friday.

I can't believe we've got the country's fate in these guys hands.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

What's the best website for watching the carnage when the Asian markets open? Planning to order Chinese (or as we'll soon call it, "food") and watch the bloodshed.

Edit: And apparently there will be blood, since Boner has given up on his 2PM deadline and there will now be a GOP conference call at 4:30.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Minnesota couldn't compromise. I have no doubt the Feds can't either. Default (and unfettered chaos) here we come.

And I heard nothing on the news shows this morning to change my mind. Boner was on Fox News Sunday and he's just as insane as ever.

 

[Almington]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I was listening to an interview from one of the ostriches yesterday (congressman from down south) who was splitting hairs about how we wouldn't crash on the 2nd because the date isn't etched in stone and the SS $ would be there. Fascinating. Unfortunately he appears to be failing to consider that there are repercussions that come from being a bunch of dolts ie the markets aren't going to care whether only part of the default is the 2nd. They care that we have idiots controlling the purse strings.

Yep, the markets don't have to wait until Aug 2nd to implode, they can and will implode as so as they begin to believe that the US isn't going to get a deal done. Actual default isn't required, the belief of a eventual default will be all it takes to get the ball rolling downhill.

 

[bronconick]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

The only long term hope left is that the markets do start cratering and the Wall Street guys start grabbing Republicans by the throat and telling them "Don't worry about a tea party primary attempt. Worry about me giving money to your democratic challenger or just sitting out 2012 entirely."

 

[Bakunin]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Yep, the markets don't have to wait until Aug 2nd to implode, they can and will implode as so as they begin to believe that the US isn't going to get a deal done. Actual default isn't required, the belief of a eventual default will not be good.

We don't know what the market participants believe, though. They could very well be betting on a last-minute compromise, in which case the markets may very well behave fairly well this week - and then sell off the following week regardless of what happens (either due to no deal being made or due to dissatisfaction with whatever deal IS made).

Of equal importance is whether or not there's an agreement to reign in spending and address the deficit seriously. The ratings agencies are not happy with the way our government has been handling things lately, so if the politicians come up with some BS solution that does little, we're looking at a credit rating downgrade and higher interest rates - things that could send us right back into a recession.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

The only long term hope left is that the markets do start cratering and the Wall Street guys start grabbing Republicans by the throat and telling them "Don't worry about a tea party primary attempt. Worry about me giving money to your democratic challenger or just sitting out 2012 entirely."

Imagine a scenario where this thing does crater...what happens to incumbents. Specifically the white house...which is the big prize. Of course, that's not the GOPs top priority...but I'm not sure if it feels it has as much at stake in finding a solution. 'Happy warrior'

IMO the GOP knows what its doing.

 

[Almington]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

We don't know what the market participants believe, though. They could very well be betting on a last-minute compromise, in which case the markets may very well behave fairly well this week - and then sell off the following week regardless of what happens (either due to no deal being made or due to dissatisfaction with whatever deal IS made).

Of equal importance is whether or not there's an agreement to reign in spending and address the deficit seriously. The ratings agencies are not happy with the way our government has been handling things lately, so if the politicians come up with some BS solution that does little, we're looking at a credit rating downgrade and higher interest rates - things that could send us right back into a recession.

The problem is that the politicians are on record as saying that they have to get something none by tomorrow to have any chance of making the Aug 2 deadline. Which way would you bet given their track record on this issue. The bigger question for Wall Street is what is a safe place to move the money to in the event that no deal gets done?

Even if the credit agencies downgrade the rating, that is a far cry from the chaos of a default (which would also cause a downgrade). The question is how would the markets react if that happened and we got bogged down in an ugly battle over the 2012 budget. I don't like either option, but I prefer the slow decline (that we might manage to pull out of) as opposed to a chaotic shock of a sudden plunge.

 

[joecct]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Why is Geithner not part of the talks? One would think he would have the best numbers instead of hopes and wishes and guesses of the legislators.

 

[Handyman]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Why is Geithner not part of the talks? One would think he would have the best numbers instead of hopes and wishes and guesses of the legislators.

Because Goldman Sachs told him to ****? That is the only reason I can think of since he is so far in their pocket he flosses with their pubes...

Almington is right, all it takes is for the markets to BELIEVE things will go south and they will. Then the public hears about it, pulls their money out of the banks for fear of implosion (even though that is ludicrous as Kepler loves to tell us the average person is not bright) and then the run on the banks starts. It will be AIG all over again, the FDIC and the Treasury better be ready because this could get real ugly real quick.

Scooby,

Minnesota compromised...Dayton sold out his entire base to cut a deal that sucks so hard everyone hates it. He got sick of hearing how the shutdown is his fault and he screwed over half the DFL. (and well all the teachers and school districts)