The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

[unofan]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Isn't this essentially what the federal government's old retirement system was (CSRS) before they switched to FERS?

No idea. Never had an occasion to delve into CSRS (or even FERS, for that matter).

 

[unofan]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

If you had any concept of the free market you'd know that the histocial rate of return of the stock market is 10-12% depending on how you calculate the numbers. I was speaking towards if you let people keep their own private accounts. No wonder you like SS so much. You have no idea how much more money you could make it you were allowed to invest it yourself.

Pension plans, such as the one you cite from galveston, are required to invest conservatively, which means a heavy dose of treasury bonds and other low risk investments. While they can expand beyond what SS can, if you have a pension plan solely invested in the stock market, I'll show you a manager that will be going to jail.

But I'm sure you knew that already...

 

[Almington]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Pension plans, such as the one you cite from galveston, are required to invest conservatively, which means a heavy dose of treasury bonds and other low risk investments. While they can expand beyond what SS can, if you have a pension plan solely invested in the stock market, I'll show you a manager that will be going to jail.

But I'm sure you knew that already...

A huge part of the reason that so many pension funds are underfunded now is that they lost a huge amount of value when the market fell, even if much of that has been recovered since then it is still well below it's all time highs.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Things are happening quickly in DC today (must be the heat). Obama has reportedly caved and is offering $3T in cuts with $0 revenue enhancers. House Democrats are reportedly ticked off and Harry Reid has said it won't pass the Senate. Meanwhile, Boner went on the Limbaugh show and said there is no deal and he doesn't know what they're talking about.

Edit: GOP Senator Saxby Chambliss just said he doesn't think there will be a deal in time to prevent default.

Edit2:

(Reuters) - President Barack Obama and U.S. House Speaker John Boehner are discussing a possible deal that would include $3 trillion in spending cuts over 10 years to avert an unprecedented U.S. default, a senior Democratic congressional aide said on Thursday.

Their potential agreement would include a promise of tax reform in 2012, the aide said.

Edit3: From the White House: Anyone reporting a $3 trillion deal without revenues is incorrect. POTUS believes we need a balanced approach that includes revenues.

 

[joecct]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Isn't this essentially what the federal government's old retirement system was (CSRS) before they switched to FERS?

CSRS did not have any SS part, as opposed to the current FERS system. CSRS had a 7% contribution from both the employee (me) and the employer (you) that was supposed to be invested in treasury securites not yielding less than 3% (IIRC). CSRS did not have a 401(k) system, though, once FERS started we could invest up to 10% in the Thrift Savings Plan (TSP - the 401(k)) without a government match.

FERS has a small retirement system, plus SS, plus the 401(k) plan that the government matches.

Now here's where it impacts the taxpayer. When we were projecting salaries, we figured that a CSRS employee cost salary + 17% (benefits). FERS has a benefit rate of over 30%. It adds up as the CSRS employees retire.

 

[joecct]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Things are happening quickly in DC today (must be the heat). Obama has reportedly caved and is offering $3T in cuts with $0 revenue enhancers. House Democrats are reportedly ticked off and Harry Reid has said it won't pass the Senate. Meanwhile, Boner went on the Limbaugh show and said there is no deal and he doesn't know what they're talking about.

Edit: GOP Senator Saxby Chambliss just said he doesn't think there will be a deal in time to prevent default.

Maybe Jeff Greenfield has something..

 

[Handyman]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Sweet, my guess is we are just a mere hours away from economic reform legislation that will not actually reform the economy and will further distance Obama from the liberals! That sound you hear, is the democrats crying out as they get bent over again!

Joke for Health Care Reform
Joke for Economic Reform
Ticking off the Social Liberals

Obama in 2012...hey he is still to the left of Fox News!

 

[joecct]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Here's a little piece of propaganda by the Club for Growth:

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/DUnOAem310g?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/DUnOAem310g?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>

The sound stinks in some parts, but you can catch the drift.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

John Boehner: I've told GOP that a deal on debt will involve compromise

House Speaker John Boehner said Thursday he had prepared Republicans to expect that any deal on raising the debt ceiling would necessarily involve compromise, although he acknowledged that not all the lawmakers in his caucus would be willing to concede to such terms.

In a press conference on Capitol Hill, Boehner reiterated his support for the GOP's "Cut, Cap and Balance" plan to reduce the debt, but also emphasized that he was ready to call on Republicans to compromise in order to avoid default. The Senate is set to vote on the House plan this Saturday.

When asked, during his remarks, if he had "told [Republicans] that any deal is going to have to involve some compromise," Boehner responded, "I have."

While "some members" may refuse to move away from the "Cut, Cap and Balance" bill, Boehner said most would not.

"I'm sure we've got some members who believe that," Boehner said, when asked if he sensed that some House Republicans were "locked in" to the GOP plan.

"But I do not believe that would be anywhere close to the majority," he added. "At the end of the day, we have a responsibility to act. And we have two problems; we have a debt ceiling that has to be raised and if we don't deal with the size of our debt, our credit rating is going to be downgraded."

 

[gounhwildcats]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. - Alexis de Tocqueville

 

[Hopkinja]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Maybe Jeff Greenfield has something..

If that was the result of a default, then I say bring it on. If a default gives us more of the same bull, then let's prevent the default.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I saw Romeo and Juliet last night (the 1936 Leslie Howard -- Norma Shearer version which I don't recommend since the leads have all the sexual chemistry of broccoli wooing a honey badger). Anyway, it made me hopeful that our versions of the Montagues and Capulets can compromise before the bodies pile up.

Both sides are going to have to concentrate on needs and compromise on wants

Liberals
Needs: raise the debt ceiling, protect Medicare and Social Security
Wants: restore progressive tax structure, cut the military budget
Dreams: appropriate more Keynesian spending to trigger job growth and recovery

Conservatives
Needs: raise the debt ceiling, cut enough spending to have tangible deficit reduction
Wants: make dramatic and systemic cuts to non-defense discretionary spending
Dreams: pass a balanced budget amendment

The contradictions only come into play when we get into wants. Both sides can have their needs met with a relatively clean debt ceiling bill that also has limited spending cuts in it. The negotiation is then how much additional spending cuts the conservatives are willing to trade away to keep their "no new taxes" pledge.

It would not be the worst thing in the world to have both sides agree that the other is American, patriotic, and motivated by a reasonable, if debatable, definition of "fairness."

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

It looks like there are a couple of deals floating around, but none have the votes to get passed by either the House or Senate. Meanwhile Grover Norquist has talked back his statement yesterday that letting the tax cuts expire as THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO would not break his "no tax" pledge, and is now saying it would. Good thing Grover wasn't around 70 years ago or they'd be speaking German in London and the Japanese would rule the Pacific from Hawaii to Australia.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

It looks like there are a couple of deals floating around, but none have the votes to get passed by either the House or Senate. Meanwhile Grover Norquist has talked back his statement yesterday that letting the tax cuts expire as THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO would not break his "no tax" pledge, and is now saying it would. Good thing Grover wasn't around 70 years ago or they'd be speaking German in London and the Japanese would rule the Pacific from Hawaii to Australia.

Wow, I'm shocked that he retracted. Shocked.

 

[Bill]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I saw Romeo and Juliet last night (the 1936 Leslie Howard -- Norma Shearer version which I don't recommend since the leads have all the sexual chemistry of broccoli wooing a honey badger). Anyway, it made me hopeful that our versions of the Montagues and Capulets can compromise before the bodies pile up.

Both sides are going to have to concentrate on needs and compromise on wants

Liberals
Needs: raise the debt ceiling, protect Medicare and Social Security
Wants: restore progressive tax structure, cut the military budget
Dreams: appropriate more Keynesian spending to trigger job growth and recovery

Conservatives
Needs: raise the debt ceiling, cut enough spending to have tangible deficit reduction
Wants: make dramatic and systemic cuts to non-defense discretionary spending
Dreams: pass a balanced budget amendment

The contradictions only come into play when we get into wants. Both sides can have their needs met with a relatively clean debt ceiling bill that also has limited spending cuts in it. The negotiation is then how much additional spending cuts the conservatives are willing to trade away to keep their "no new taxes" pledge.

It would not be the worst thing in the world to have both sides agree that the other is American, patriotic, and motivated by a reasonable, if debatable, definition of "fairness."

The combined needs of addressing the deficit/debt problem in any meaningful way is (1) the overhaul of Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid, and (2) Defense Cuts (way too many troops overseas), as a starting point. We need to tackle the biggies now. Anything else isn't really going too help much and just puts off the day of reckoning. If it takes some sacrificial lambs in Congress to have the courage to do so, so be it. Washington needs to start putting the countries interests ahead of their own.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

The combined needs of addressing the deficit/debt problem in any meaningful way is (1) the overhaul of Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid, and (2) Defense Cuts (way too many troops overseas), as a starting point. We need to tackle the biggies now. Anything else isn't really going too help much and just puts off the day of reckoning. If it takes some sacrificial lambs in Congress to have the courage to do so, so be it. Washington needs to start putting the countries interests ahead of their own.

And letting the tax cuts expire?

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

That would be a yes.

The funny thing is, if we ended the wars (and didn't start replacement wars), let the tax cuts expire, and means-tested entitlements, we would have a perfectly reasonable budget given even slight (post-recession) economic growth, and EVERYBODY would win. Not doing those things is incredibly short-sighted, and the people most resistant to making any sacrifice (the very wealthy and people on the verge of retirement) are the ones who have the most to lose if it all crashes and burns.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

And letting the tax cuts expire?

That would be a no. You can't tax job creators. Everyone, and I repeat....everyone, knows this to be true.

 

[Almington]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

The people most resistant to making any sacrifice (the very wealthy and people on the verge of retirement) are the ones who have the most to lose if it all crashes and burns.

This is what I don't understand. I always viewed a progressive tax structure not based so much off the fact that those who have more are able to pay more, but that those who have more have more to lose when it all falls apart and taxes are nothing more then the fee that you pay to ensure that you don't lose the opportunities that you have that have allowed you to achieve and acquire all that you have.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

There's finally been a breakthrough!

No, not on the debt ceiling.

House votes to keep Styrofoam cups

Our long national nightmare is over.