What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

  • Thread starter Thread starter Priceless
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

geezer said:
The whole Buffet thing was exposed last week. The story was he pays himself a $100,000 salary, his secretary earns $60,000, and his secretary's husband some x amount where his underling actually has a higher income (and hence, higher tax rate) than her boss. His whole spiel about him not paying enough was either dishonest or misleading when you consider his reported earnings. (Most of his potential income is reinvested, so it isn't taxed)
It's a myth that he "makes" millions.

My point being, the higher income gets a higher tax rate. Buffet makes less than the secretary.

Although personally, I still think he and everyone else should be paying more taxes to pay down the debt.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Warren Buffet lives on 100,000 per year. You're hilarious.
 
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

geezer said:
I honestly don't remember; there's a good chance it was on slate.com. If he really reported that much income, I don't know what loophole got him down to 17 percent. He must have a really good accountant.
The way I understood it was he avoided taxes on the 60 million by never claiming it as personal income at all, so he didn't need a deduction. It was just part of his corporation. His only "personal" income was $100k.
Click to expand...

Yes, he committed tax fraud on $60M then went on TV and talked about it.

The $60M+ was taxed at 15% because it wasn't "income" it was "capital gains."
 
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

You guys are probably right. It's not impossible, though, that he only claims a $100,000 "personal salary" and writes off his other expenses as part of doing business. travel, etc. I'm sure it's been done.
Priceless, it's not called "tax fraud" if you have a good staff of lawyers and accountants. I'm sure it's all perfectly legal under our wonderful tax code.
 
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

geezer said:
You guys are probably right. It's not impossible, though, that he only claims a $100,000 "personal salary" and writes off his other expenses as part of doing business. travel, etc. I'm sure it's been done.
Priceless, it's not called "tax fraud" if you have a good staff of lawyers and accountants. I'm sure it's all perfectly legal under our wonderful tax code.
Click to expand...



Only rich people claim deductions, contribute pre-tax income to various savings vehicles, income average, have capital gains, etc. so they are the only ones "cheating".
 
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Buffet's right, of course that the system's broken when guys like him get away with what they do. But we're also not going to pay off a $14T (and very rapidly rising) debt by upping a few billionaires' taxes. Everybody's going to have to pitch in soon. The "crippling debt load" is my basis for taking Obama's side in recent budget debates. Slim cuts to future growth of spending isn't going to pay off that debt as Republicans seem to enjoy fantasizing.
 
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

pirate said:
Only rich people claim deductions, contribute pre-tax income to various savings vehicles, income average, have capital gains, etc. so they are the only ones "cheating".
Click to expand...
Income averaging went out with the Reagan tax reforms.

Outside of that - true.

But the downside is if you raise rates, more money leaves the "tax system" and becomes cash, trade or barter transactions or the victim of "creative accounting".
 
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

joecct said:
Income averaging went out with the Reagan tax reforms.

Outside of that - true.

But the downside is if you raise rates, more money leaves the "tax system" and becomes cash, trade or barter transactions or the victim of "creative accounting".
Click to expand...

I don't disagree, just pointing out that the tax code applies to all of us but folks on here view it as being justified for them to lower their tax burden but criminal for somebody else to do it...I just think it worth pointing out the hypocrisy. If someone is evading taxes then they should be punished. We're all aware of the high profile cases of tax evasion...if we have an IRS person on here I'd love to see some aggregated data on where the highest percentage of tax evasion exists (unit and volume). I'll put $1 down that the incidence rate isn't higher among the highest income range but instead is in the upper middle income range.
 
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

pirate said:
where the highest percentage of tax evasion exists (unit and volume). I'll put $1 down that the incidence rate isn't higher among the highest income range but instead is in the upper middle income range.
Click to expand...

According to this site tax compliance. it's the lowest income < 5k and highest > 200k in 1984... so it's basically the bottom 10% and top 10%.
About 83% compliance rate vs 95% for middle income.

The reason given is that middle income is mostly wages which is harder to hide. And other psycho babble. Just think cash transaction at the bottom, and over seas banks for top earners (and other investments).
 
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Another view of the Buffet thing from last week.
Five myths about millionaires
3. Millionaires pay proportionately less income tax than poorer people.

In a speech on Monday, Obama said raising taxes on millionaires isn’t class warfare, but “math.” His math may be off: According to the IRS, those with adjusted gross incomes of more than $1 million paid an average of 23.3 percent in federal income taxes in 2008; those earning between $100,000 and $200,000 paid 12.7 percent; and those earning between $50,000 and $100,000 paid 8.9 percent. Nearly half of American families don’t make enough money to pay federal income taxes at all.
Why do people think millionaires pay less? One cause of confusion is that stock dividends and capital gains are taxed at a maximum of 15 percent, while regular income in their bracket is taxed at a maximum of 35 percent. The rich often earn more dividend and capital gains income than regular income, so it’s tempting to wrongly conclude, as Warren Buffet has, that millionaires “wouldn’t mind being told to pay more in taxes.” But dividends are paid out of corporate profits that have already been taxed. So Buffet’s equity earnings are doubly taxed: He pays 35 percent at the corporate level and 15 percent on his own return.
Click to expand...

We shouldn't, of course, confuse "federal income taxes" with total taxes. There is the whole thing about affect of gas & sales taxes, etc. hammering the poor.
 
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Tundra said:
According to this site tax compliance. it's the lowest income < 5k and highest > 200k in 1984... so it's basically the bottom 10% and top 10%.
About 83% compliance rate vs 95% for middle income.

The reason given is that middle income is mostly wages which is harder to hide. And other psycho babble. Just think cash transaction at the bottom, and over seas banks for top earners (and other investments).
Click to expand...

I'll send you the dollar!! I thought it would be in the middle where self-employed and business owners exist...seems there is always a restaruant owner that they catch not paying enough taxes.



edit: from the Buffet millionaires article posted below:

Income can’t be used to predict political opinion. In 2008, for example, Obama won the votes of 60 percent of those with a family income under $50,000 and 52 percent of those earning more than than $200,000. McCain carried the middle class.
 
Last edited:
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

IMO the Tea Party's recent support declines is due to the 'no compromise' mantra they espouse.

Anyways, interesting poll outlining that the GOP should really be careful:

-Do you think the federal government's Department of Education should continue to exist, or do you
think it should be eliminated completely? 74% continue to exist
-How worried are you that you or someone in your family will become a victim of terrorism? 67% not worried
-Do you think abortion should be legal? 78% under certain circumstances
-Do you believe that the theory of evolution is true? 57% its true
-Do you think marriages between gay and lesbian couples should or should not be recognized by the
law as valid? 53% yes...highest ever
-Should the United States give up its membership to the United Nations, or not? 82% Should not
-In your view, does the United Nations play a necessary role in the world today, or not? 64% yes, necessary
CNN
 
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

pirate said:
I'll send you the dollar!! I thought it would be in the middle where self-employed and business owners exist...seems there is always a restaruant owner that they catch not paying enough taxes.
Click to expand...

Keep the dollar. That number is % compliance per income level. I'm sure you're right, on the actual total # is highest in the middle income ,but I would guess $ amount is highest in the upper income. Opportunity only exist in cash transacted job/business or investment transaction. % shows that everyone is a potential tax evader if only they had opportunity.
 
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I think I have found a way for the post office to eliminate their defecit --
http://mobile.washingtonpost.com/rs...ps/2011/09/26/gIQAfavC0K_mobile.mobile&cid=-1

Imagine charging $10 million to get your image on a US Postal stamp. Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, George Soros, Rupert Murdoch, and Zsa Zsa could easily afford it. More $$ assures that you stick around for another year.

There's enough vain folks out there to assure a large supply.
 
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

At the risk of flagellating a necrotic equine:

42% of doctors believe that Americans are consuming too much healthcare.

When 42% of the people in any profession are willing to admit that they should be making less money, there's a good chance there's an actual problem in there somewhere. Under the current system, it's in nobody's interest to consume less, so we're in a death spiral of increasing costs. Someone needs to put their foot down and say, "enough." We'll never balance the budgets without addressing the health care burden.
 
Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

LynahFan said:
At the risk of flagellating a necrotic equine:

42% of doctors believe that Americans are consuming too much healthcare.

When 42% of the people in any profession are willing to admit that they should be making less money, there's a good chance there's an actual problem in there somewhere. Under the current system, it's in nobody's interest to consume less, so we're in a death spiral of increasing costs. Someone needs to put their foot down and say, "enough." We'll never balance the budgets without addressing the health care burden.
Click to expand...
Only 42%! I would have thought higher. Doing a lot of the sick call lately. Amazing what people think is a reason to pay a co-payment. I would love to be a documentary reporter and ask them what motivated them to come when they have been sick for less than a day or why they keep following up to say they did nothing they were advised to do.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top