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Sunyac

K

Keith-Stone

New member
Not trying to throw hate at any individual team in asking this. But I’m just genuinely curious why the SUNYAC, while a strong and competitive conference, pretty much ends the same every season. Geneseo, Oswego, and Plattsburgh battle it out for the top 3 spots, while Fredonia Brockport, and Buffalo seem to be in a second tier, followed by Potsdam, Cortland, and Morrisville in the lower third tier, with Cortland and Morrisville routinely missing playoffs. Why can’t Potsdam break through to be a top tier program with their new rink? Why does Geneseo do so much better than Cortland or Brockport when they basically have the exact same rinks to show recruits? Is it recruiting? Coaching? Facilities? Geographic location? History? School reputation? I would love any input here. My cousin played at Fredonia in the early 2000’s and said that the tiered system I mentioned earlier was pretty much the same 20 years ago. What keeps these teams from improving? Again, I love the SUNYAC conference. Just curious about the programs. Also, why not let Canton in as an affiliate member? I think they will soon pass Morrisville and Cortland in terms of team strength. They also have a beautiful new facility. They can’t be independent forever.
 
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Re: Sunyac

You've covered an awful lot ground here amigo, small bites. If you pull for a particular SUNYAC program visit the school pages, Twitter, etc, pay attention and visit this board often.
This conference is really no different that any other; the haves and have nots. For every Alabama there's a Vanderbilt. Same logic applies here. If you follow a particular school closely you know which sports they are invested in.
It's off season so now the talk will be about recruits. I myself look for which players are returning, how many are graduating, and the transfer wire. There is a ton of history on the team pages/sunyac page to refer to that might answer some the questions you have as to 'why'. BTW love Canton and what they did this year. That being said, GO LAKERS.
 
Re: Sunyac

Are there any non-elitist arguments against Canton joining the league? Geography is the only one I can think of but the schools could make it work. Canton would actually be an ideal travel partner for Potsdam, but then that leaves Plattsburgh without one.

Fredonia-Buff State
Geneseo-Brockport
Morrisville-Cortland
Potsdam-Canton

That would leave Oswego and Plattsburgh without partners. Maybe they could be paired together :)
 
KnightsOfTheRound said:
Are there any non-elitist arguments against Canton joining the league? Geography is the only one I can think of but the schools could make it work. Canton would actually be an ideal travel partner for Potsdam, but then that leaves Plattsburgh without one.

Fredonia-Buff State
Geneseo-Brockport
Morrisville-Cortland
Potsdam-Canton

That would leave Oswego and Plattsburgh without partners. Maybe they could be paired together :)
Click to expand...

The proposal hockey coaches were talking about when Canton’s application was being considered was Plattsburgh-Potsdam, Oswego-Canton.

In terms of why they weren’t accepted, the key words were “Academic Profile.” The SUNYAC members are all four-year liberal arts colleges. Canton is a former two-year school with a heavy tech focus, and more than half of their courses of study are still Associates Degree programs.

As to whether that should have anything to do with their membership in the SUNYAC... I suppose you’d have to ask the MIAC about how enrollment and academic profile comes into the discussion, when they vote next month on a proposal to kick St Thomas out because they’re too big.
 
Re: Sunyac

With Morrisville and you pair the Wallabies with the Ponies. Not ideal, but there are worse in other conferences (Hamilton - Amherst comes to mind).
 
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Re: Sunyac

Morrisville-Canton probably makes the most sense since it doesn't disrupt the status quo. It's a tough trip but doable once a year.
 
Re: Sunyac

CARDS_rule_the_Burgh said:
In terms of why they weren’t accepted, the key words were “Academic Profile.” The SUNYAC members are all four-year liberal arts colleges. Canton is a former two-year school with a heavy tech focus, and more than half of their courses of study are still Associates Degree programs.
Click to expand...

But isn't their academic profile similar to Morrisville? What distinguishes Canton from the 'lil Ponies" ?
 
Re: Sunyac

NUProf said:
But isn't their academic profile similar to Morrisville? What distinguishes Canton from the 'lil Ponies" ?
Click to expand...

A question I myself have asked often.

I think the difference is Canton still offers two-year degrees, while the other two to four year schools (Morrisville, SUNYIT (now SUNY Poly), Farmingdale) no longer do. However, I was told they don't "really" anymore, and thus the issue is no more. I have also been told the Presidents of the schools most against Canton joining are no longer against it. Then again, I've been told they still are. You can never get a straight answer...
 
Re: Sunyac

joecct said:
Does Canton have a cow barn right next to the rink? :)
Click to expand...

Hell, Penn State has a cow barn right near campus... helps feed the best on-campus ice creamery in the United States (where Ben & Jerry learned to make ice cream)!
 
Re: Sunyac

I'd agree with the comment following this post that it happens with every conference in any sport at any division - There will always be bottom dwellers.

But I'd say while it was a Plattsburgh/Oswego-dominated conference throughout the 00's, Geneseo started making it a three-horse race around 2014 once they made the FF. (Plattsburgh has dipped recently after their remarkable title run in 16-17 but we'll see how they transition under a new coach, they're only 26-24-3 in the last two years)

I'd say the culture around these programs is the most important. Plattsburgh and Oswego have had historic programs for decades, and (Being an Oswego alum) when talking to the players they always mentioned the history and the attendance. Most of these kids in juniors don't even know about these schools or couldn't even point them out on a map, but when they see the history on a recruiting trip and see 2,500+ fans in a small town come out to a hockey game, they get sold on it.

Buffalo State made some noise for a small stretch when they had DeLavergne in net, and Fredonia made a nice run in 17-18 to the SUNYAC championship, but i can't imagine how tough it is to get a program to completely turn around.


Keith-Stone said:
Not trying to throw hate at any individual team in asking this. But I’m just genuinely curious why the SUNYAC, while a strong and competitive conference, pretty much ends the same every season. Geneseo, Oswego, and Plattsburgh battle it out for the top 3 spots, while Fredonia Brockport, and Buffalo seem to be in a second tier, followed by Potsdam, Cortland, and Morrisville in the lower third tier, with Cortland and Morrisville routinely missing playoffs. Why can’t Potsdam break through to be a top tier program with their new rink? Why does Geneseo do so much better than Cortland or Brockport when they basically have the exact same rinks to show recruits? Is it recruiting? Coaching? Facilities? Geographic location? History? School reputation? I would love any input here. My cousin played at Fredonia in the early 2000’s and said that the tiered system I mentioned earlier was pretty much the same 20 years ago. What keeps these teams from improving? Again, I love the SUNYAC conference. Just curious about the programs. Also, why not let Canton in as an affiliate member? I think they will soon pass Morrisville and Cortland in terms of team strength. They also have a beautiful new facility. They can’t be independent forever.
Click to expand...
 
BKrosky said:
I'd agree with the comment following this post that it happens with every conference in any sport at any division - There will always be bottom dwellers.

But I'd say while it was a Plattsburgh/Oswego-dominated conference throughout the 00's, Geneseo started making it a three-horse race around 2014 once they made the FF. (Plattsburgh has dipped recently after their remarkable title run in 16-17 but we'll see how they transition under a new coach, they're only 26-24-3 in the last two years)

I'd say the culture around these programs is the most important. Plattsburgh and Oswego have had historic programs for decades, and (Being an Oswego alum) when talking to the players they always mentioned the history and the attendance. Most of these kids in juniors don't even know about these schools or couldn't even point them out on a map, but when they see the history on a recruiting trip and see 2,500+ fans in a small town come out to a hockey game, they get sold on it.

Buffalo State made some noise for a small stretch when they had DeLavergne in net, and Fredonia made a nice run in 17-18 to the SUNYAC championship, but i can't imagine how tough it is to get a program to completely turn around.
Click to expand...

Geneseo also had back to back SUNYAC titles in 2004 and 2005 or 2005 and 2006 I believe. Ever since Schultz has taken over, he’s really elevated the Geneseo program from usually the 3rd or so place team in the conference to a SUNYAC title contender every year and right in the national picture every year since 2014 like you said.
 
Re: Sunyac

PrezdeJohnson09 said:
Geneseo also had back to back SUNYAC titles in 2004 and 2005 or 2005 and 2006 I believe. Ever since Schultz has taken over, he’s really elevated the Geneseo program from usually the 3rd or so place team in the conference to a SUNYAC title contender every year and right in the national picture every year since 2014 like you said.
Click to expand...

Coach Schultz deserves all the credit in the world for creating a winning culture and tradition for Geneseo hockey. He has to be considered in the top tier of coaches for Division III hockey nationally.

I am too far from Geneseo these days to know what's going on there -- following hockey is about the only way I relate to my alma mater these days -- but something has changed in the past few years. If you look at the SUNYAC Commissioner's Cup history, it was won by Cortland every year until 2014, and since then Geneseo has won it every year. So there has been an increased commitment to athletics across the department. Geneseo is now also near the top of the rankings for Division III across all sports nationally, which is much different than a decade ago when I attended.

http://www.sunyacsports.com/awards-content/commissioners-cup/index
 
Re: Sunyac

KnightsOfTheRound said:
Coach Schultz deserves all the credit in the world for creating a winning culture and tradition for Geneseo hockey. He has to be considered in the top tier of coaches for Division III hockey nationally.

I am too far from Geneseo these days to know what's going on there -- following hockey is about the only way I relate to my alma mater these days -- but something has changed in the past few years. If you look at the SUNYAC Commissioner's Cup history, it was won by Cortland every year until 2014, and since then Geneseo has won it every year. So there has been an increased commitment to athletics across the department. Geneseo is now also near the top of the rankings for Division III across all sports nationally, which is much different than a decade ago when I attended.

http://www.sunyacsports.com/awards-content/commissioners-cup/index
Click to expand...

Geneseo has ALWAYS had a very strong running program. They have greatly benefited from Cortland falling back a bit in running and it helps sweeping men's and women's XC, men's and women's indoor, as well as men's and women's outdoor track every year. That's 30 points for both men and women and dominant start to the Commissioners cup.
 
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