sports socialism and hockey?

[redwing77]

Re: sports socialism and hockey?

I think there is sports socialism out there, but I'm not convinced that it exists in collegiate sports despite what has been spoken about here.

Here's my reasoning regarding pro sports:

Look at the Cleveland Browns. Not the current ones... I'm talking about the Art Model Cleveland Browns. "Build us a new stadium or we'll move." They didn't (or didn't move fast enough) and Voila! Baltimore Ravens.

Admittedly, it doesn't always work (look at the Minnesota Vikings (Red McCombs era) and Twins at one point... Florida Marlins).

Socialism exists in sports, but it is more pro sports than anything else.

 

[jdevoejr]

Re: sports socialism and hockey?

In a city where I was able to stand in the middle of Michigan Ave. on a Saturday morning at 9:00 a.m. and not see a single motor vehicle in either direction as far as the eye could see, some 30,000 odd people, mostly from somewhere else, came to Detroit and left their cash in hotels, bars, restaurants, and other assorted venues. Without Ford Field that doesn't happen. A good and appropriate investment, I would say.

 

[ronmexico]

Re: sports socialism and hockey?

It depends what you build and where you build it and how many days a year it gets used. I can say with certainty that the building of Coors Field in what was once Denver's skid row has totally rejuvenated the whole neighborhood of Lower Downtown, which is now full of restaurants, condos, clubs, galleries, bars and offices that would never have been built were it not for the ballpark making the neighborhood safe and desirable. The 80 baseball game days a year put a lot of money into the local area that would probably have been spent elsewhere.

I'm not taking a host at PS here.

Urban reclamation projects are always two sided. If you have ever walked around downtown Denver after a Rockies game you know what I mean. They can certainly sell apartments along-side a stinky river but they clear the hobo tents like the rainforest and leave people to flee like animals…

FYI - Lowdo is a cool place to be but the "skid row people" were people too... They didn't disappear because you no longer see them.

 

[SoCalSiouxFan]

Re: sports socialism and hockey?

Nice very appropriate response for this thread.

Elected public officials spending money on parks and recreation!!
They can do that???

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: sports socialism and hockey?

For example, the dome where Syracuse University (a private university) plays its home basketball and football games was partly financed with taxes through the New York State Dormitory Authority (??!).


Do plans currently exist to build new college hockey arenas with public taxes?

Do you have a "hockey" example???

I'm positive there are public universities that are planning on building an arena with public funds.

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: sports socialism and hockey?

Yes - the disposable sports fan dollars get spent wherever they get spent, with or without the sports team. And the bums just go somehere else.

The bigger point was that the building of the stadium was the anchor and accelerant of a rejuvenated neighborhood. Without the stadium getting built, that neighbood is a still decaying collection of hovels. Cities need certain publically-funded amenities to spur further economic development - things like transit lines, roads, convention centers, waterfronts, stadiums, hospitals, shopping malls, universities and office parks usually stimulate proximal private development such as housing, retail, reataurants and other services. These developments create jobs, tax base stability and attractive growth. You can argue whether or not stadiums are as effective economic development anchors as other publically funded projects would be, but there are many examples where this has worked, and worked well.

 

[Osorojo]

Re: sports socialism and hockey?

Do you have a "hockey" example???

I asked you first. We aren't going to get far going this way.

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: sports socialism and hockey?

Do you have a "hockey" example???

I asked you first. We aren't going to get far going this way.

Why do you continue to post questions that you yourself could easily look up? First we had the question about which majors hockey players choose, something easily looked up, now we have this questions.

Here's a thought,

Why don't you make a list of all the private colleges with a D-1 Men's hockey team, then do some google searches and find out what funds were used to build it and where did they come from.

Here's a starter, go find out how the Bright Center was built and where the funding came from...

Start doing some freaking research...for a change and then start a thread discussing it instead of asking for others to do all your research for you.

Jeez, we go through the same **** points in every thread, are you simple or something?

 

[Dirty]

Re: sports socialism and hockey?

Why do you continue to post questions that you yourself could easily look up? First we had the question about which majors hockey players choose, something easily looked up, now we have this questions.

I think Osorojo may be every Michigan Tech fan's favorite person, Frank Wilson.

 

[Osorojo]

Re: sports socialism and hockey?

Why do you continue to post questions that you yourself could easily look up? First we had the question about which majors hockey players choose, something easily looked up, now we have this questions.

Jeez, we go through the same **** points in every thread, are you simple or something?

Why? I assumed posters to this site know more about the circumstances of college hockey than I. Your responses cause me to despair for this assumption.

I answered your question. Will you answer mine? If you refuse to answer a straightforward question, or you don't know the answer to this question, why do you constantly (compulsively?) post your non-responsive answers?

The federal outdoor recreation act funded most of the community rinks built in the northeast, perhaps in other parts of the U.S. as well. The funding for these rinks was not justified as social re-engineering of depressed neighborhoods, nor was it justified as stimulus money for failing private enterprise. My personal opinion is the results of the outdoor recreation act did more for amateur hockey than any other single event in memory, although these rinks were dirt cheap compared to those publicly funded rinks I hear being proposed (built?) today. Is the motive for today's public funding of rinks pork or sports?

 

[Rover]

Re: sports socialism and hockey?

I'm not sure socialism is the right word here, nor if one definition fits all. Cities building stadiums for billionaire owners would be reverse socialism (or neo-conservatism ). Some of these "deals" are ridiculous. Didn't Baltimore and Cleveland shell out like 300-400M for 8 home games a year? Likewise Hartford was going to shell out 1Bn for the Pats and guarantee a sellout for the next 30 years if they moved. Insane.

But bring it down to a college hockey scale. BU built Agganis Arena to the surprise of all of us alums because the admin was anti-sports. However, as they fill the place with concerts and special events (and naming rights for the complex) it makes a lot more sense. Especially since the area was missing a mid sized arena to hold events that were too small for the Garden but too large for the various theatres around town. The Carrier Dome may have a similar function. I guess my question is if the state put up the dough, do they get some of the proceeds? They could do it to revitalize the area I suppose but I'd be a little suspect about that.

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: sports socialism and hockey?

Why? I assumed posters to this site know more about the circumstances of college hockey than I. Your responses cause me to despair for this assumption.

I answered your question. Will you answer mine?

You assume other posters know and they do, but don't be a ****ing lazy ********* and look it up for yourself. I assume someone knows how many goals BC scored last year, but I don't go over the BC thread and ask them, I search for it and find it on my own, because I know people asking easily verfiable questions ****es others off.

Now to answer your question, A.) I already did numbnutts and B.) yes, I am sure there are public universities funded by public dollars that want to build a new arena using said monies. Are there private institutions, I don't know nor do I care to look it up, but since you clearly are interested go look up that info!!!

 

[moose97]

Re: sports socialism and hockey?

There is a website that will answer every question Osorojo could ever come up with

and yes, even tell us what college hockey rinks were built with public funding

Now, maybe he'll leave us alone?

http://tinyurl.com/2364lnr/

 

[mmb5]

Re: sports socialism and hockey?

In this case (and most pro sports argments), I agree. If I lived in Denver pre-Rockies, I was likely looking to spend some money doing something like going to clubs, movies, museums, bowling, other pro sports or maybe minor league sports, etc. Now, rather than do that, I would be spending it on baseball.

IIRC, the Denver Zoo took a tremendous hit when the Rockies started playing. New stadia are not as much as an increase in regional revenue as it is a redistribution of it. The only time it does pay off is when it attracts out-of-town income such as the Super Bowl or a lesser extent the Frozen Four.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: sports socialism and hockey?

There is a website that will answer every question Osorojo could ever come up with

and yes, even tell us what college hockey rinks were built with public funding

Now, maybe he'll leave us alone?

http://tinyurl.com/2364lnr/

Hee hee - #1 result? This thread.

 

[Osorojo]

Re: sports socialism and hockey?

There is a website that will answer every question Osorojo could ever come up with

and yes, even tell us what college hockey rinks were built with public funding

Now, maybe he'll leave us alone?

http://tinyurl.com/2364lnr/

Mr. Moose: Did you bother to go to the above site and peruse the entries? The first entry cites THIS THREAD - the one you are reading now, as the first source of information about public funding of college ice rinks! In the first two pages of your suggested source of information two publicly funded college hockey rinks are revealed- the Bemidji rink which was mentioned on this site, and the Swarthmore rink. I took a lot of abuse and spent a lot of time to get one name, but thanks, anyway.

I'm curious. Who's "us" and "we?" Have you got a mouse in your pocket, or has someone granted you permission to speak for everyone else who posts on this site? [Maybe you have a secret club, with elections and handshakes and such. Cool.] Where can I find documentation for this extraordinary license you have assumed?
Again I ask why you and the "we" and "us" you speak for meddle in a thread which you proclaim is senseless and started by someone "we" and "us" proclaim is even more senseless? You do realize that if your judgment of this thread is accurate you are more a fool to waste your time reading and responding to it? That goes for your "we" and "us" too.

 

[HoosierBBall_GopherHockey]

Re: sports socialism and hockey?

I find it hard to believe that someone from Cornell can be such a dumb ***.

 

[Onion Man]

Re: sports socialism and hockey?

I find it hard to believe that someone from Cornell can be such a dumb ***.

Why? All Cornell students/alums are "real" Ivy School rejects.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: sports socialism and hockey?

Across the U.S. multi-million dollar sports venues are being built with taxpayers' money, usually without a vote to obtain the consent of the taxpayers. This practice is not restricted to professional sports stadiums, or even to state colleges.
For example, the dome where Syracuse University (a private university) plays its home basketball and football games was partly financed with taxes through the New York State Dormitory Authority (??!).
Speculation abounds about the addition of hockey programs at DI colleges. Stadiums with hockey rinks cost a whole lot of money to build. The crash of 2008 remains unresolved, and cries for spending cuts and tax cuts resound across our land. Do plans currently exist to build new college hockey arenas with public taxes?

[BTW: The fact that you, like me, are ignorant of any such a plan doesn't mean diddly. Instead of proclaiming your ignorance is proof of the innocence of all college hockey schools [and wannabe college hockey schools] please wait long enough for proof of the contrary to be produced, if such proof exists.

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For those of you not smart enough to figure it out, this is NSFW.

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: sports socialism and hockey?

Mr. Moose: Did you bother to go to the above site and peruse the entries? The first entry cites THIS THREAD - the one you are reading now, as the first source of information about public funding of college ice rinks! In the first two pages of your suggested source of information two publicly funded college hockey rinks are revealed- the Bemidji rink which was mentioned on this site, and the Swarthmore rink. I took a lot of abuse and spent a lot of time to get one name, but thanks, anyway.

Is this your first time using the interweb?

BTW (that stands for By The Way) Bemidji is a public school and as such use of public funds would make sense...at least to the rest of us.

I'm curious. Who's "us" and "we?" Have you got a mouse in your pocket, or has someone granted you permission to speak for everyone else who posts on this site? [Maybe you have a secret club, with elections and handshakes and such. Cool.] Where can I find documentation for this extraordinary license you have assumed?

That's right, I grant him permission to speak for me whenever he responds to you...