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Socialized medicine a failure.

rufus

rufus

rock and roller
France to increase costs for overnight stays in the hospital by 25%. 25%!!!! That's outrageous. How can we have health care reform, when even socialized medicine can't keep a lid on increasing costs?





Oh, BTW, that means the cost of an overnight stay in the hospital is gonna go from $23.51 to $29.39. :blush2:
 
Re: Socialized medicine a failure.

but what about all those horror stories i hear about socialized medicine from Americans who have never been overseas?
 
Re: Socialized medicine a failure.

This certainly wouldn't have fit in perfectly with the thread already devoted to the topic. I can see why you felt the need to create yet another thread on it.
;)
 
Re: Socialized medicine a failure.

unh_hockey said:
but what about all those horror stories i hear about socialized medicine from Americans who have never been overseas?
Click to expand...
I've been living in the UK for 2.5 years and I'm about to move to Switzerland. I don't have any horror stories about either the US system nor the UK system, but I still prefer to keep the government less involved with health care. Let the government set the rules and then get off the field - don't take part in the action itself.
 
Re: Socialized medicine a failure.

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Re: Socialized medicine a failure.

rufus said:
France to increase costs for overnight stays in the hospital by 25%. 25%!!!! That's outrageous. How can we have health care reform, when even socialized medicine can't keep a lid on increasing costs?

Oh, BTW, that means the cost of an overnight stay in the hospital is gonna go from $23.51 to $29.39. :blush2:
Click to expand...

There's a flip side to that. In fact, I would argue that the cost of the stay isn't what changed. The patient's share of the cost changed. The question is, how much of his care is being paid for by whom? Obviously 25 bucks is a pretty small portion of the real cost of a night of care in a hospital (assuming with real doctors etc.)... thanks taxpayers! It was comfy!
but that $6 represents some progress in the direction of accountability.
 
Re: Socialized medicine a failure.

....roofy's point is way more simple than even he thought.

You get what you pay for.
 
Re: Socialized medicine a failure.

geezer said:
The question is, how much of his care is being paid for by whom? Obviously 25 bucks is a pretty small portion of the real cost of a night of care in a hospital (assuming with real doctors etc.)... thanks taxpayers! It was comfy!
but that $6 represents some progress in the direction of accountability.
Click to expand...

And what the hell do you think any other type of insurance is but a grouping of people's fees in order to pay for those unlucky few (hopefully few, anyway) who need its use? Or do you honestly believe that those who get their money back (and then some) from insurance are the lucky ones? Do you not realize that means they suffered an unfortunate event requiring them to make an insurance claim?

Frankly, if I never receive a cent from my auto insurance in my life, I'd be thrilled. It should be the same way with medical insurance too - you should be happy if you don't get as much as you pay in, because that means you've stayed healthy.

If you want the lowest premiums as an individual, you need the biggest and broadest base to spread the risk as much as possible. Guess what, a mandatory nationwide plan accomplishes that, and the only way that happens is if it's government sponsered/run.
 
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Re: Socialized medicine a failure.

unofan said:
If you want the lowest premiums as an individual, you need the biggest and broadest base to spread the risk as much as possible. Guess what, a mandatory nationwide plan accomplishes that, and the only way that happens is if it's government sponsered/run.
Click to expand...

No it doesn't. If it did, then Social Security and Medicare wouldn't be broke. The problem isn't that it won't be affordable, or funded well, it is that the politicians can't keep from taking from it to prop up some other program elsewhere. Leave the gov't out of it.
 
Re: Socialized medicine a failure.

dropthatpuck said:
....roofy's point is way more simple than even he thought.

You get what you pay for.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, and France's healthcare system is considered one of, if not the best, in the world.

But keep making snarky comments about them. Freedom fries!!!!!!!
 
Re: Socialized medicine a failure.

unh_hockey said:
but what about all those horror stories i hear about socialized medicine from Americans who have never been overseas?
Click to expand...

As opposed to the stories extolling the excellence of a system done by a nation that has about 1/5 of the US population that they likewise have never been?

I think the two cancel out each other.
 
Re: Socialized medicine a failure.

streaker said:
No it doesn't. If it did, then Social Security and Medicare wouldn't be broke. The problem isn't that it won't be affordable, or funded well, it is that the politicians can't keep from taking from it to prop up some other program elsewhere. Leave the gov't out of it.
Click to expand...

social security isn't broke. There never was a trust fund, despite the common misconception - the social security deduction from your paycheck was never meant to be saved for your use down the road. Since its inception, it's always been a wealth transfer mechanism from today's workers to today's retirees, one that is surprisingly efficient (overhead is minimal). The problem is that the ratio of workers per retiree is shrinking due to a combination of fewer babies being born, people living longer, and the demographic bubble that is the baby boomers hitting retirement age. The easy fix is to raise the retirement age, but good luck getting the baby boomers, one of the most selfish generations ever, to agree to that.

medicare suffers from the same problems for the same reasons.

A national insurance plan differs because the people being covered (people under 65) are also those paying in (through their income taxes/payroll deductions).
 
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Re: Socialized medicine a failure.

rufus said:
Oh yeah, and France's healthcare system is considered one of, if not the best, in the world.

But keep making snarky comments about them. Freedom fries!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Yeah
Didn't their presidient come here for some medical issue?
 
Re: Socialized medicine a failure.

walrus said:
Yeah
Didn't their presidient come here for some medical issue?
Click to expand...

Sarkozy loves us and it wouldn't surprise me if he chose to, but Google doesn't seem to have a record of it.

Our system is great if your healthy. It is also probably the best place to be if you have something extremely complicated. However if you are uninsured good luck to you if something even relatively minor goes wrong.
 
Re: Socialized medicine a failure.

sagard said:
Sarkozy loves us and it wouldn't surprise me if he chose to, but Google doesn't seem to have a record of it.

Our system is great if your healthy. It is also probably the best place to be if you have something extremely complicated. However if you are uninsured good luck to you if something even relatively minor goes wrong.
Click to expand...

Good assessment. Its just an alternative.
 
Re: Socialized medicine a failure.

rufus said:
Oh yeah, and France's healthcare system is considered one of, if not the best, in the world.

But keep making snarky comments about them. Freedom fries!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Who considers France's system "one of, if not the best, in the world?"

and let me ask a follow-up. If France is in the top, why don't our sick go there for healthcare if our system is so inadequate? Why didn't Ted Kennedy go there? Chris Dodd, Rudy Guliani, Dick Cheney? whomever.......That just doesn't happen for reasons backed by empirical evidence.

I've got some doctor friends including an anesthesiologist, who are quite ****ed at Obama for this socialist nonsense. They're wondering very loudly, why not Tort reform???

They're also forming groups to fight this. If the current bill passes you'll be hearing about Doctors refusing to treat patients on the government plan. Why? because they won't get paid. It may seem greedy but, hey, someone who spends 12 years of their lives making nothing, just educating themselves, should get their just desserts when they finally get to work and keep people healthy or try as hard as they can to fix people's health issues.

.02
 
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