Shannon Miller out at UMD?

[Blackbeard]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Also, pretend that people who don't normally pay attention to the sport but whose intrigue was piqued by this story, as well as their disdain for UMD, don't exist either.

Just curious.

Why would people who don't normally pay attention to women's hockey have disdain for UMD?

 

[pokechecker]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

I get that UMD doesn't have Harvard's alumni base but you can't tell me that they couldn't have at least tried something? This is what leads me to believe there is more going on here with the Chancellor and AD. Miller has brought five national championships to the school and unless she has been abusive to players or has a running feud with the administration, then her offer to accept a reduced salary that was turned down says there is more to this story. We may never know the complete truth.

something to consider:
Miller said she should be paid as much as the men's coach a year ago, now she's saying she will take a pay cut.
wouldn't extending her contract with a cut make her a disgruntled employee? wouldn't it also give her more ammo in her lawsuit, "I had to take a pay cut, the men's coach didn't"

it's too bad for the players, they are in the midst of a season with a high probability of an NCAA tournament opportunity and a realistic chance at a national title, it's too bad their coach has to put herself above the team, I thought when parting ways you are supposed to take the high road and not burn bridges so as to not make future employers wary.

 

[monsoonweather]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

At one point her salary was less than $60k. .

When was this

 

[pokechecker]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

it looks like the capacity for hockey at Amsoil is 6600, and the men's team is pulling in between 5300 and 7400 fans this year, most games over 6000 at $24 a head
the women are struggling to get 1000 at $8 a head, and students at UMD get in free
mens games are pulling in about $150,000 each game
women are pulling in less than $10,000
UMD is on the hook for 12% of the cost of Amsoil

draw your own conclusion

 

[joecct]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

it looks like the capacity for hockey at Amsoil is 6600, and the men's team is pulling in between 5300 and 7400 fans this year, most games over 6000 at $24 a head
the women are struggling to get 1000 at $8 a head, and students at UMD get in free
mens games are pulling in about $150,000 each game
women are pulling in less than $10,000
UMD is on the hook for 12% of the cost of Amsoil

draw your own conclusion

How is this is different than 99.9% of women's sports at every college and university? You have to realize that women's sports are not a popular or as profitable as men's sports at any level. Stinks, but it's true.

 

[Eeyore]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

How is this is different than 99.9% of women's sports at every college and university? You have to realize that women's sports are not a popular or as profitable as men's sports at any level. Stinks, but it's true.

Sure, but it gets to why the marginal value of a good coach is greater for men's hockey than it is for women's and thus why the salaries are bigger: each additional win is worth more money to the university. Granted, no NCAA member institution can actually make that argument in court if they get sued but it's still true.

 

[Skate79]

When was this

Late nineties.

 

[KTDC]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

How is this is different than 99.9% of women's sports at every college and university? You have to realize that women's sports are not a popular or as profitable as men's sports at any level. Stinks, but it's true.

The women's coaches at the other schools aren't threatening legal action (rumored, at least) on a gender equity basis for spending more for the men's team than for the women's team. Some of us are saying Shannon Miller needs to realize this.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

something to consider:
Miller said she should be paid as much as the men's coach a year ago, now she's saying she will take a pay cut.
wouldn't extending her contract with a cut make her a disgruntled employee? wouldn't it also give her more ammo in her lawsuit, "I had to take a pay cut, the men's coach didn't"

It depends. If they had come to Miller as she indicated in her TV interview and said, "Look we need to talk about a salary adjustment as the University's athletic budget is going through some cuts. We want you to remain as the head coach but at a reduced salary", she would have considered taking the cut to stay on as head coach. It then would have made it tough for her to turn around and sue them based on her being paid less than the men's coach if that conversation had actually taken place. While gender equity is becoming a topic of discussion in the private sector, it's nowhere near where it should be.

I'm not a lawyer but if I were advising Miller, I would have suggested to her that she bring along her lawyer to the December meeting. She had to know something was up after the summer meetings. If not, then it's on her for making assumptions about how the University was looking at her contractual situation.

 

[Blackbeard]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

I'm not a lawyer but if I were advising Miller, I would have suggested to her that she bring along her lawyer to the December meeting. She had to know something was up after the summer meetings. If not, then it's on her for making assumptions about how the University was looking at her contractual situation.

Except that you are looking at it with the benefit of hindsight.

Why would bringing her lawyer to the December meeting even cross her mind when, according to her, she was lead to believe that they were going to work things out and she was even thinking of a compromise on her side of the equation in order to move the process along to a mutually acceptable conclusion? In that situation why would you run the extremely high risk of alienating your higher ups by bringing your lawyer to the meeting? That would mean that you necessarily expected a dust-up...not a great way to encourage a mutually agreeable outcome in a situation where you were lead to believe that everyone was on the same page with figurative back pats all around at the end of the last meeting.

 

[ne7minder]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Don't worry. I've stopped caring again. Just pretend my opinion doesn't exist. Also, pretend that people who don't normally pay attention to the sport but whose intrigue was piqued by this story, as well as their disdain for UMD, don't exist either. Bye.

Since your opening statement was that you didn't care why would I assume you ever started? Don't let the door hit ya. I actually don't have any disdain for UMD. I have a lot for Miller and the way she behaves and for the way she has her team pay (there are only 2 WCHA teams that play cheap & hers is one). I actually hope UMD gets better soon & actually competes on skill for a national championship.

 

[Blackbeard]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

and for the way she has her team pay (there are only 2 WCHA teams that play cheap & hers is one).

You would obviously be shocked by their responses if you were to ever pose your opinion to the actual UMD players from the last several years whom you accuse of this behaviour.

 

[Blackbeard]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

I actually hope UMD gets better soon & actually competes on skill for a national championship.

5 National Championships in 10 years and you figure they've never done this before...meaning they've never actually competed with skill before for a National Championship?

You figure what?...that 5 Frozen Four Championships were awarded to them for outstanding hooliganism in the face of stiff hockey competition?

 

[CrankIt]

something to consider:
Miller said she should be paid as much as the men's coach a year ago, now she's saying she will take a pay cut.
wouldn't extending her contract with a cut make her a disgruntled employee? wouldn't it also give her more ammo in her lawsuit, "I had to take a pay cut, the men's coach didn't"

In 2010 after her 5th title, Miller DID take a pay cut and only got a 2 year contract extension. Typically, coaches get pay raises and loger contracts after that many titles, in any sport. Also, the following year, with a new chancellor in charge, when the men's team won their title, Sandelin was given a pay raise and a 5 year contract. Safe to say she was already on her way to being a disgruntled employee when that happened. Sandelin is also set to get a 20,000 raise next season.

I have not been able to confirm nor deny the following RUMOR, but, some have been saying a head coach of a different program was given a pay raise the same week they fired Miller. It's just a rumor at this point, but if true, there are some larger issues going on here.

 

[Blackbeard]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

In 2010 after her 5th title, Miller DID take a pay cut

I was lead to believe that it was increased by $40,000.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Except that you are looking at it with the benefit of hindsight.

Why would bringing her lawyer to the December meeting even cross her mind when, according to her, she was lead to believe that they were going to work things out and she was even thinking of a compromise on her side of the equation in order to move the process along to a mutually acceptable conclusion? In that situation why would you run the extremely high risk of alienating your higher ups by bringing your lawyer to the meeting? That would mean that you necessarily expected a dust-up...not a great way to encourage a mutually agreeable outcome in a situation where you were lead to believe that everyone was on the same page with figurative back pats all around at the end of the last meeting.

It's true I'm looking at it through hindsight but my experience in business has taught me that where salaries and contracts are concerned, you need representation to make sure your interests are protected. I realize college sports are a different animal but you're still talking about negotiation and when negotiating with people who have the power to decide your fate, you want to make sure you give yourself a fighting chance to get a decent outcome.

I don't think bringing representation to a meeting in December is at all alienating. If anything, it shows the powers that be that you are serious about committing to the University and want to do what's best for all parties. That includes Miller. They have to respect that and if they don't, then their intent was never to bring her back despite all the backslapping during the summer.

 

[ne7minder]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

You would obviously be shocked by their responses if you were to ever pose your opinion to the actual UMD players from the last several years whom you accuse of this behaviour.

No wouldn't be shocked at all. My guess is they would call it "physical' and "aggressive" but thats the same euphemisms the NHL uses. After watching more than 500 NCAA D-I games played by a couple dozen womens teams I feel qualified to say I can only count on cheap play from a couple of them. It comes out much more when they are losing but its there.

 

[pokechecker]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

You have to realize that women's sports are not a popular or as profitable as men's sports at any level. Stinks, but it's true.

really? I never realized that

How is this is different than 99.9% of women's sports at every college and university?

99.9% of the other programs didn't win 5 national championships in 10 years and managed to earn almost zero support for the program.
It is easy to understand why Miller did what she did, like all athletes & coaches she is competitive and tried to be the best. But at the end of the day, what did it do for UMD?
Have students flocked to UMD from Canada & Europe? Doesn't look like it, They sure haven't from Minnesota.
Have fans embraced the team? A resounding no!
Did it improve the bottom line of the athletic department? another resounding no, it has burned money.
Did it make UMD well known? Well perhaps improved it's visability, but UMD was already well known in hockey circles.
Did it increase contributions? Looks like it may have at first, but no longer.
In the end it is a failed business model.

 

[ne7minder]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

I would argue the positive growth in women's college hockey has had a greater impact to the Duluth area then what you think. The economy as a whole benefits. Jobs, hotels, restaurants, sporting goods stores, gas stations...etc.

I agree with a lot of what you wrote & am sympathetic but I have to say the total for the above in near to background noise. We have been going for weekend series for 10 years and many weekends we had difficulty finding a room because of other stuff going on (Duluth has a very active visitor business). Many of those weekends I would guess 30-50 rooms, some people make the drive from Minneapolis for each game. So, yeah, 200 restaurant meals, maybe a couple of after-game drinks with friends, a tank of gas but still probably not noticeable against the normal activity. Sadder still, there have been games where UMD fan are outnumbered by visitors. They deserve better.

 

[zoofer]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

As a far away outsider, geographically, but as someone who has closely been involved with a program's major upheaval, thru all this peripheral crap going on between the parties involved, in the end we only care about the players....the girls who give their all for the sport they love, who get caught up in the politics that surround sports.....so as we here at UNH are doing, support the team despite the other crap and noise! In the end you'll feel better...