Shannon Miller out at UMD?

[CrazyDave]

Cloud???? what cloud? in your mind maybe

UMD will not have a problem finding another coach, the problem will be selecting which one

being the coach at UMD is a highly desirable position, it will be interesting to see who throws their hat in the ring and who UMD seriously looks at hiring

If I were a coach, I would not be so quick in applying given how the original announcement has played out. The athletic department has basically said, we're cutting the team's budget even further, starting with the coaching staff. And they're not afraid to get rid of a coach with a high winning percentage.

Plus there is cloudiness due to the fact that Shannon's still the coach for 2 1/2 to 3 more months, along with the possibility of legal action. Again, not exactly an ideal scenario to be walking (skating?) into.

 

[KTDC]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Maybe, but there are 350 D1 women's b'ball teams, there are 35 D1 women's hockey teams. This one has 5 national titles. I think it would be easy for a potential coach to blame the current public relations and political problems more on coach Miller and less on the institution. If you have an interest in coaching women's hockey, this probably isn't too bad a place to take a shot with.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

I think Miller's assistant Laura Schuler is both qualified and connected enough to rebuild the UMD women's program into a contender while being more budget and media-friendly.

Based on her 23-99-10 record at Northeastern? And what makes you think she is going to want the job after what just happened to Miller?

Cloud???? what cloud? in your mind maybe
and UMD is not currently in the penthouse
UMD will not have a problem finding another coach, the problem will be selecting which one
being the coach at UMD is a highly desirable position, it will be interesting to see who throws their hat in the ring and who UMD seriously looks at hiring

Considering how little attention I pay to women's hockey and even I am upset by this, I would call it a cloud. The school handled this situation poorly. They are facing budget cuts and have made it clear those budget cuts will fall squarely on the shoulders of women's sports. Even if that isn't true, that is the perception. There will be a legal dispute in the offing after the season (maybe even before the season ends). Not exactly an ideal situation to explain to a prospective new coach. To correct you: The head coaching job at UMD *was* a highly desirable position. I don't think it is nearly as attractive as it was two weeks ago.

The school totally botched this. If they wanted to get rid of Miller, just wait until the season is over and say they want to head in a different direction. Making this announcement when they did - in the middle of finals and a week before the Christmas break - was absolutely horrible timing. Framing this as a budgetary matter was even worse because it takes the focus off Miller (where they clearly wanted it) and brings other financial issues (like Sandy's salary, recruiting budget, etc) into play. And as has been posted, it sends a signal to the next coach that they'll have to deal with even fewer resources.

 

[pokechecker]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

If you have an interest in coaching women's hockey, this probably isn't too bad a place to take a shot with.

exactly, can anybody think of a more plumb job that is, or will likely be open?

 

[KTDC]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Also, I have to say, if Shannon Miller is going to start legal action against UMD based on them spending more on the men's program than the women's, any claim she has as an advocate or positive force for women's hockey is null.

Can anyone say "lacrosse"……or "swimming"?

 

[Plante26]

Based on her 23-99-10 record at Northeastern? And what makes you think she is going to want the job after what just happened to Miller?

http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/sports/hockey/3637301-umd-assistant-schuler-plans-apply-womens-hockey-job

She's also had prominent coaching experience with the Canadian National team.

Considering how little attention I pay to women's hockey and even I am upset by this, I would call it a cloud. The school handled this situation poorly. They are facing budget cuts and have made it clear those budget cuts will fall squarely on the shoulders of women's sports. Even if that isn't true, that is the perception. There will be a legal dispute in the offing after the season (maybe even before the season ends). Not exactly an ideal situation to explain to a prospective new coach. To correct you: The head coaching job at UMD *was* a highly desirable position. I don't think it is nearly as attractive as it was two weeks ago.

The the contract for the women's coaching staff runs through the end of the season. Other contracts expire at different times. (Such as men's hockey......Sandelin is on contract through 2016-17.)

The school totally botched this. If they wanted to get rid of Miller, just wait until the season is over and say they want to head in a different direction. Making this announcement when they did - in the middle of finals and a week before the Christmas break - was absolutely horrible timing. Framing this as a budgetary matter was even worse because it takes the focus off Miller (where they clearly wanted it) and brings other financial issues (like Sandy's salary, recruiting budget, etc) into play. And as has been posted, it sends a signal to the next coach that they'll have to deal with even fewer resources.

The coaching staff has stipulations in their contract stating that they must be given six months notice if they are not going to be retained for the following season. (Miller disputes this, saying that this provision was included in the contracts of her assistants but not her own.)

As for resources: Budget issues within athletic programs are no secret. If you think this is the end of budget reductions, you're on crack.

(Been a while since I've posted around here, but one thing hasn't changed: Priceless still pipes off about things of which he's not familiar, looking quite the fool.)

 

[ne7minder]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

exactly, can anybody think of a more plumb job that is, or will likely be open?

plumb as in straight up and down?. Actually it could be a tough slot. For all her personal faults she did a very good job of recruiting international talent. The pool of women is not that large or deep, though it is getting better. I think Miller could have gotten more of the cream from Minnesota had she tried but she probably never felt the need. Assuming her replacement is not as plugged in they are going to lose even more women to UND and Bemidji. This could make winning in Duluth harder than it has been the last few years.

On the mens side UMD was always a favorite for Iron Range kids so they were able to remain competitive. Unfortunately, the range is not producing great girl players. But UMD has a good reputation and if they pick Schuler she sure should be able to cary on that international tradition. I also hope she (or whoever) refocuses the team on playing hockey without all the cheap crap.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

I wonder what percentage of John Calipari's salary the Kentucky women's basketball coach makes? The price of many things is still driven by supply and demand.

Great question. It got me to thinking about Pat Summit and Tennessee basketball. Does anyone know or care who the men's coach is at Tennessee? I don't have any figures regarding Tennessee women's hoop but I have to believe that they were a revenue generator for the school. And Summit's salary may have been quite a bit more than her male counterpart.

Back to hockey and a question for Big Ten folks who follow this thread. How much revenue does the Big Ten network provide to each of the schools? Is it based on the particular sport? Is UMD at a disadvantage where Minnesota and Wisconsin are concerned because of that revenue stream? Or are there alternative revenue sources for UMD that haven't been addressed by Miller's contract non-renewal?

 

[Plante26]

plumb as in straight up and down?. Actually it could be a tough slot. For all her personal faults she did a very good job of recruiting international talent. The pool of women is not that large or deep, though it is getting better. I think Miller could have gotten more of the cream from Minnesota had she tried but she probably never felt the need. Assuming her replacement is not as plugged in they are going to lose even more women to UND and Bemidji. This could make winning in Duluth harder than it has been the last few years.

On the mens side UMD was always a favorite for Iron Range kids so they were able to remain competitive. Unfortunately, the range is not producing great girl players. But UMD has a good reputation and if they pick Schuler she sure should be able to cary on that international tradition. I also hope she (or whoever) refocuses the team on playing hockey without all the cheap crap.

There hasn't been a prominent Iron Range recruit to play for UMD since Matt Niskanen nearly a decade ago.

 

[ne7minder]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

(Been a while since I've posted around here, but one thing hasn't changed: Priceless still pipes off about things of which he's not familiar, looking quite the fool.)

I was trying desperately to ignore based on

Considering how little attention I pay to women's hockey . . .

That ranks right up there with "I'm not a racist, BUT" as a point in speaking where a person should just sit down and shut up.

 

[ne7minder]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

There hasn't been a prominent Iron Range recruit to play for UMD since Matt Niskanen nearly a decade ago.

I did not know that! That is quiet a change then. Thanks.

 

[ne7minder]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Back to hockey and a question for Big Ten folks who follow this thread. How much revenue does the Big Ten network provide to each of the schools? Is it based on the particular sport? Is UMD at a disadvantage where Minnesota and Wisconsin are concerned because of that revenue stream? Or are there alternative revenue sources for UMD that haven't been addressed by Miller's contract non-renewal?

All the 'small' schools suffer in comparison to the 'big' schools. I don't know about hockey but CBS just signed a deal with the Big10 that will net them $27million a year EACH now & going up to $45million in a couple of years.. I doubt UMD, UND, BSU, MSU and SCSU put together make that in a decade or two. Every school get $25 million from the Big10 network. I think we are seeing it in football were the haves are going to create a great deal of separation from the have-nots based on money from TV. Its why the 'musical chairs' is going on with conferences and the Big10 is now the Big42 or whatever.

I don't see how the 'poor' schools can compete over time. Although I talked with Lauren Boyle's dad at a game last week & OSU promotes their crappy facilities as a point of pride apparently. He said the people that go there come to own it. Thats a maybe as far as I can see.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

(Been a while since I've posted around here, but one thing hasn't changed: Priceless still pipes off about things of which he's not familiar, looking quite the fool.)

I came to this thread because I was curious about what was going on out there. After reading this thread and getting input from others, I offered my opinion. I do not claim to be right and everyone else wrong. It is merely my opinion. One thing that also hasn't changed is that you're still unwilling to consider any viewpoint but your own.

 

[ARM]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

After reading this thread and getting input from others, I offered my opinion.

There are some things that have been reported such as why UMD was obligated to make a decision now that you are either ignoring or not aware of. When some people have lived with a situation for years and others spend a few minutes becoming experts on it, it can lead to frustration with emphatically-stated opinions, no matter how well intentioned.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Back to hockey and a question for Big Ten folks who follow this thread. How much revenue does the Big Ten network provide to each of the schools? Is it based on the particular sport? Is UMD at a disadvantage where Minnesota and Wisconsin are concerned because of that revenue stream?

I have the same questions, but I can say this: When LaBahn was built, at first, UW/Barry Alvarez did not having enough money to build it per the plans. His solution: he begged the former UW players for money. That did not gain enough money to build it to the plan, so they ended up cheaping the building out. That leads me to say the answer is the B6 TV money goes anywhere but hockey, especially women's hockey, at UW anyway.

Think of the b6 teams that don't have women's hockey but have men's....all this TV money could easily fund women's hockey @ schools that have a men's program, the barn is already built.

The greed in today's corporate univeristies is just sickening, raising ticket prices and tuition while they have to use all their might close the safe's door stuffed with the btn network money, plus their own revenue.

 

[KTDC]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

I have the same questions, but I can say this: When LaBahn was built, at first, UW/Barry Alvarez did not having enough money to build it per the plans. His solution: he begged the former UW players for money. That did not gain enough money to build it to the plan, so they ended up cheaping the building out. That leads me to say the answer is the B6 TV money goes anywhere but hockey, especially women's hockey, at UW anyway.

Think of the b6 teams that don't have women's hockey but have men's....all this TV money could easily fund women's hockey @ schools that have a men's program, the barn is already built.

The greed in today's corporate univeristies is just sickening, raising ticket prices and tuition while they have to use all their might close the safe's door stuffed with the btn network money, plus their own revenue.

Seems like it turned out pretty cool they built the women a rink, but it turned out great for Minnesota that they didn't actually take the final steps to do it like they probably should have.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Think of the b6 teams that don't have women's hockey but have men's....all this TV money could easily fund women's hockey @ schools that have a men's program, the barn is already built.

I didn't realize the money was that significant but you're spot on; that funding could provide for women's programs at those schools. And that is money that the eastern schools don't see with the possible exception of HE where they have a contract with NESN for the men's games. And of course the ACC for BC.

Harvard's approach to the funding conundrum is to go after the alumni base and ask us to contribute to the various programs. In the case of Katey Stone, our women's coach, her position is endowed by the Landry family who with the Boyntons recently contributed $22M for the renovation of Bright Center (now Bright-Landry). Getting the Landry family to make significant donations I believe is what has enabled Harvard to offer Katey a competitive salary - certainly not on par with Shannon Miller but enough to keep her at the school. Without that funding, she would have been long gone by now. At one point her salary was less than $60k. I bring this up to ask; if not renewing Miller's contract is as the administration deems a cost cutting move, why didn't they try to endow her position through fundraising to at least partially offset her salary? I get that UMD doesn't have Harvard's alumni base but you can't tell me that they couldn't have at least tried something? This is what leads me to believe there is more going on here with the Chancellor and AD. Miller has brought five national championships to the school and unless she has been abusive to players or has a running feud with the administration, then her offer to accept a reduced salary that was turned down says there is more to this story. We may never know the complete truth.

 

[ne7minder]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

There are some things that have been reported such as why UMD was obligated to make a decision now that you are either ignoring or not aware of. When some people have lived with a situation for years and others spend a few minutes becoming experts on it, it can lead to frustration with emphatically-stated opinions, no matter how well intentioned.

How well intention can it be when they admit up front they don't pay attention to the sport? Because of the difficulty of translating intent from a written comment I try to give people the benefit of the doubt but that goes away pretty fast when they begin by saying they really can't be bothered to pay attention to the subject they are commenting on. I don't expect everyone to love womens hockey but then I don't expect them to provide an opinion either.

 

[ne7minder]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

The greed in today's corporate universities is just sickening, raising ticket prices and tuition while they have to use all their might close the safe's door stuffed with the btn network money, plus their own revenue.

It is all about the money. My experience with the coaches leads me to believe that raising money is the first topic on the department meeting agendas & the last topic of every meeting. Its beginning to pizz me off, particularly when I see them making $70million + a year just from TV.

As for Ridder. A rumor I heard when it was built was that it had a lot of support from the men's side . . . because they wanted an 85' sheet to practice on. But they found a sugar daddy (ah, mommy?) & they came up with the cash. It's not a perfect arena, there are many obvious compromises but they have decorated it with championships so that I sorta forgive its failings and love it despite of them. What with Marucci going to a narrower configuration in the next few years maybe it was a good thing The women got it when they did. Its a shame that other schools can't manage to have better facilities, the women deserve it.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

How well intention can it be when they admit up front they don't pay attention to the sport? Because of the difficulty of translating intent from a written comment I try to give people the benefit of the doubt but that goes away pretty fast when they begin by saying they really can't be bothered to pay attention to the subject they are commenting on. I don't expect everyone to love womens hockey but then I don't expect them to provide an opinion either.

Don't worry. I've stopped caring again. Just pretend my opinion doesn't exist. Also, pretend that people who don't normally pay attention to the sport but whose intrigue was piqued by this story, as well as their disdain for UMD, don't exist either. Bye.