Shannon Miller out at UMD?

[Call It]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

looks like 3 players on this years roster transferred in.

 

[CrankIt]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

looks like 3 players on this years roster transferred in.

Only one for this year. Michela Cava transferred from UConn this season. Meghan Huertas transferred last season after she was released by Vermont. Not sure where you're getting the third from

 

[CrazyDave]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Only one for this year. Michela Cava transferred from UConn this season. Meghan Huertas transferred last season after she was released by Vermont. Not sure where you're getting the third from

Karissa Kirkup, who played at Maine last year, is not shown on the roster on the UMD website but played in (or at least dressed for) 9 games for the Bulldogs. She's listed on the roster on collegehockeystats.net.

That said, it appears she's already left the team. I just found an article dated earlier this month (before the Miller news broke) indicating she's going to be playing at the University of Manitoba next year. http://mytoba.ca/sports/kirkup-vance-commit-to-bisons-womens-hockey-program/

 

[CrankIt]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Karissa Kirkup -- came in from Maine this year.

Kirkup left the team without warning before the Cornell series. I'm talking packed up her room without her roommates knowing and just left town.

 

[CrazyDave]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Kirkup left the team without warning before the Cornell series. I'm talking packed up her room without her roommates knowing and just left town.

See the edits to my previous post. But thanks for the follow-up.

 

[D2D]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Wow, more turmoil than I was aware of. It's hard to build a cohesive unit with so many players coming and going, which makes their mostly winning ways this season pretty remarkable.

 

[UCONN FAN]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Kirkup left the team without warning before the Cornell series. I'm talking packed up her room without her roommates knowing and just left town.

Left Maine and has already left this team too????????? Must be the coaches.

 

[CrankIt]

Left Maine and has already left this team too????????? Must be the coaches.

I hope I'm sensing the sarcasm here. This would seem to be more indicative of the character of the player and not the coaching staffs

 

[CrankIt]

Wow, more turmoil than I was aware of. It's hard to build a cohesive unit with so many players coming and going, which makes their mostly winning ways this season pretty remarkable.

I would mostly agree with your point here. However, I do also think that the players that have left were bringing the team down. The past couple seasons there has been a culture of players not willing to put in the hard work and effort necessary to be a D1 athlete. Some, not all, were definitely more interested in the college party scene than the college hockey scene.
This year's group seems to have really bought into the system and are fully committed to the program and getting back to being the top program in the country

 

[ARM]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

However, I do also think that the players that have left were bringing the team down. The past couple seasons there has been a culture of players not willing to put in the hard work and effort necessary to be a D1 athlete. Some, not all, were definitely more interested in the college party scene than the college hockey scene.

When the coach has been in place that long, the culture is on her as much as the athletes. They are her recruits. If she's going to take credit when the team wins -- and she has always been very willing to do so -- then she should own the failures more than she has. Over the years, it's always been blamed on admissions or some players on the fourth line or Jeff Vizenor, but she's recruited some players that weren't very good and then played others out of position. It would be refreshing if she'd say, "I've got to admit, that wasn't my besting coaching job." About the closest she has ever come do doing so that I've heard was when she admitted at the WCHA Tourney last year that she tried some experiments in the series in Minneapolis that just plain didn't work, and her team was lousy in that series. There's been more swings and misses in recent years, and I think that's partly because the coaches she's matched against these days are on average better than they were 15 years ago.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

It's hard to compete with the schools (UM and UW) because of who those coaches are. Regional, or blue chips as you put it, will pick blue chip coaches. The rodents seek and land foreign players as well, so like coach miller says, support the student-athletes and their decisions. Elite players want to play for elite coaches and maybe that's where UMD is losing players? Idk, just my thoughts.

I know the coach at Wisconsin because of his 1980 US Olympic prowess. I do not know the coach of Minnesota, but have no reason to believe they aren't "elite" for this conversation. But I would wonder how Miller isn't also considered elite, since she she has 5 national titles, has coached 26 Olympians, was the coach of Team Canada at the Olympics (and apparently was asked to coach in 2014 and turned it down - bet she regrets that decision now) and is one of only three coaches with over 350 wins (thanks Wikipedia). That seems pretty "elite" to me.

add in that she made political comments that offend half the fan base, ironically it would have played well in Minneapolis or Madison, but in Duluth, especially the surrounding area, not so much

I'm not a regular follower of the program, and a quick Google search returned zilch. What were the comments she made?

 

[ne7minder]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

ics (and apparently was asked to coach in 2014 and turned it down - bet she regrets that decision now) and is one of only three coaches with over 350 wins (thanks Wikipedia). That seems pretty "elite" to me.

There is no question that Miller is an elite coach (whatever the heck that means) She was the Canadian national coach before coming to Duluth for crying out loud! She has NCAA national championships, I can't imagine what more 123 could want. In fact it was her international status that allowed her to draw eleite players from around the world to play in Duluth.

 

[ne7minder]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

When the coach has been in place that long, the culture is on her as much as the athletes.

As an outsider I have repeatedly witnessed her abusing officials and last year one of her players. Maybe she got a bunch that didn't think they needed to put up with that? If you are not competing for the championships maybe it becomes apparent that you could get a better experience somewhere else.

 

[123kidd]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

What I said was, is that she's losing the elite players to elite coaches, "and maybe thats where UMD is losing players." She's not losing elite players to the bottom feeders, and if she is, maybe it's because of her face to face conversations or official visits that recruits take.
Shannon was an elite coach in her prime, like most successful coaches were.

 

[jumbodaddy77]

When the coach has been in place that long, the culture is on her as much as the athletes. They are her recruits. If she's going to take credit when the team wins -- and she has always been very willing to do so -- then she should own the failures more than she has. Over the years, it's always been blamed on admissions or some players on the fourth line or Jeff Vizenor, but she's recruited some players that weren't very good and then played others out of position. It would be refreshing if she'd say, "I've got to admit, that wasn't my besting coaching job." About the closest she has ever come do doing so that I've heard was when she admitted at the WCHA Tourney last year that she tried some experiments in the series in Minneapolis that just plain didn't work, and her team was lousy in that series. There's been more swings and misses in recent years, and I think that's partly because the coaches she's matched against these days are on average better than they were 15 years ago.

I totally agree with this post. I also fully believe that women athletes and coaches get short shrift as a matter of course. I may be wrong, but I think the Miller situation resembles the Harbaugh one in the NFL. Terrific, winning coach. Also one that just wears everyone out. Once things get sorted out, all parties will be in a better place. That said, the schools that will line up to hire Ms. Miller should be careful because they will get exactly what they sign up for. Great and disappointing simultaneously.

My hunch is that the UMD leadership will regret framing the choice as a financial one rather than what I think it was, a chance to build a new culture (while also saving a little bit of coin.) I hope their poor framing choices don't hurt the UMD women's hockey program long term.

 

[UCONN FAN]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

I hope I'm sensing the sarcasm here. This would seem to be more indicative of the character of the player and not the coaching staffs

Sarcasm for sure.....

 

[pokechecker]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

that's partly because the coaches she's matched against these days are on average better than they were 15 years ago.

Miller squawks about the pay between the men & women programs and the lack of women in college hockey coaching ranks but it is easy to forget that originally all the coaches in the WCHA were women, the difference is that all of them went after kids directly from high school while she filled her team with players 1, 2 & 3 years out of HS with additional hockey experience. In short the other coaches were taking HS students and making college athletes out of them while Miller was taking hockey players and attempting to make students of them. The result? WI eventually lost patience and hired Johnson who made all of the women coaches obsolete. Eventually every other school followed in WI footsteps.
So who is the real friend, and who is the villain, of female college hockey coaches?
If she drew as much interest to her team's games as she does in getting canned, she'd have her contract extension.

What were the comments she made?

see above
there is a parallel to this, wrestling coach J Robinson also raised eyebrows with some of his comments, the difference? Apparently Robinson could read the writing on the wall and shut up, apparently Miller couldn't and didn't

 

[Priceless]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Miller squawks about the pay between the men & women programs and the lack of women in college hockey coaching ranks but it is easy to forget that originally all the coaches in the WCHA were women, the difference is that all of them went after kids directly from high school while she filled her team with players 1, 2 & 3 years out of HS with additional hockey experience. In short the other coaches were taking HS students and making college athletes out of them while Miller was taking hockey players and attempting to make students of them. The result? WI eventually lost patience and hired Johnson who made all of the women coaches obsolete. Eventually every other school followed in WI footsteps.
So who is the real friend, and who is the villain, of female college hockey coaches?
If she drew as much interest to her team's games as she does in getting canned, she'd have her contract extension.



see above
there is a parallel to this, wrestling coach J Robinson also raised eyebrows with some of his comments, the difference? Apparently Robinson could read the writing on the wall and shut up, apparently Miller couldn't and didn't

So her statements were about the difference in pay between the men's and women's programs? That happens almost everywhere. Our basketball coach complained bitterly about the salary, budgetary and recruiting difference between the men's and women's programs for two years. When it became apparent the university wasn't going to step up, she went to Michigan State and is now head coach at Duke. While she was here the women's basketball team became a revenue sport, alongside hockey and baseball. Since Coach P left the program has gone steadily downhill to the point that we have one of the worst teams in the country and women's hoops is back to being a taker rather than a contributor to the athletic budget.

Replacing an elite coach will almost certainly be difficult and you don't have to look far to see teams that went from the penthouse to the outhouse rather quickly after a coach departs. Considering the cloud that now surrounds the program at UMD, I think it's going to be nigh impossible to find a quality replacement. More than likely, you'll get a seat-filler for 3-4 years before they get fired and the real search begins.

 

[Plante26]

So her statements were about the difference in pay between the men's and women's programs? That happens almost everywhere. Our basketball coach complained bitterly about the salary, budgetary and recruiting difference between the men's and women's programs for two years. When it became apparent the university wasn't going to step up, she went to Michigan State and is now head coach at Duke. While she was here the women's basketball team became a revenue sport, alongside hockey and baseball. Since Coach P left the program has gone steadily downhill to the point that we have one of the worst teams in the country and women's hoops is back to being a taker rather than a contributor to the athletic budget.

Replacing an elite coach will almost certainly be difficult and you don't have to look far to see teams that went from the penthouse to the outhouse rather quickly after a coach departs. Considering the cloud that now surrounds the program at UMD, I think it's going to be nigh impossible to find a quality replacement. More than likely, you'll get a seat-filler for 3-4 years before they get fired and the real search begins.

I think Miller's assistant Laura Schuler is both qualified and connected enough to rebuild the UMD women's program into a contender while being more budget and media-friendly.

 

[pokechecker]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

So her statements were about the difference in pay between the men's and women's programs? That happens almost everywhere. Our basketball coach complained bitterly about the salary, budgetary and recruiting difference between the men's and women's programs for two years. When it became apparent the university wasn't going to step up, she went to Michigan State and is now head coach at Duke. While she was here the women's basketball team became a revenue sport, alongside hockey and baseball. Since Coach P left the program has gone steadily downhill to the point that we have one of the worst teams in the country and women's hoops is back to being a taker rather than a contributor to the athletic budget.

Replacing an elite coach will almost certainly be difficult and you don't have to look far to see teams that went from the penthouse to the outhouse rather quickly after a coach departs. Considering the cloud that now surrounds the program at UMD, I think it's going to be nigh impossible to find a quality replacement. More than likely, you'll get a seat-filler for 3-4 years before they get fired and the real search begins.

ever hear of "its not what you say but how you say it" ?
and the context, some would applaud her for voicing her opinion , others would say she's merely covering her own butt and thinking of her own self interest
Cloud???? what cloud? in your mind maybe
and UMD is not currently in the penthouse
UMD will not have a problem finding another coach, the problem will be selecting which one
being the coach at UMD is a highly desirable position, it will be interesting to see who throws their hat in the ring and who UMD seriously looks at hiring