Shannon Miller out at UMD?

[brookyone]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Let's face it, Americans generally speaking no nothing about anything outside the city/county in which they live. And when they try to talk about it, well, it just proves it. (And as Forrest Gump once said, "that's all I got ta say 'bout that!")

Let's face another reality, yours is a complete load of fertilizer. Stupid is as stupid does.

 

[ne7minder]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Let's face it, Americans generally speaking no nothing about anything outside the city/county in which they live. And when they try to talk about it, well, it just proves it. (And as Forrest Gump once said, "that's all I got ta say 'bout that!")

. . . speaking no nothing . . .

Yeah, pro tip #3472, when you are trying to put someone down try to no what word you are trying for. For you the more appropriate Gump quote is "Stupid is as stupid posts"

EDIT: I see Brooky got there first

 

[pokechecker]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Russians, among others would more than raise an eyebrow at your comment.

who gives a rats behind what Russians think
but as long as you mentioned it, if it weren't for the US supplying goods to the Brits & Russians they would have fallen and there wouldn't be any Britain or Russia to help defeat the Germans
and the US pretty much defeated the Japs alone
if anybody is offended about that, too bad, it's a fact


so Miller says some of the men (not coaches apparently) are mad at her
really? imagine that
all you've done is say you should be paid as much as Sandlin and the budgets should be the same
can't imagine why they'd the relationship would be icy
it's more or less saying take money from the men and give it to me

imagine you are in a company where your business unit shows a healthy profit
a manager from another unit that is bleeding money says she should be paid as much as your manager and that they should have the same budget
you better believe the relationship between these two units would be icy

 

[Blackbeard]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Been thinking if Miller proceeds with a lawsuit it could be that Berlo and Black toss more juice at their lawyers than they ever could have hoped to save by canning Miller and her staff. It could be a financial black hole that gapes ever wideningly in front of them for some time. Don`t recall that being mentioned here before but this writer makes that point at the end of her well researched in depth article. It`s a month old but I don`t recall seeing it before.

(Another thought is how this PR mess might affect female enrollment at UMD in the near future, if at all, although if it did it could never be proven).

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/pat-griffin/college-athletics-war-on-_b_6412950.html

 

[CrankIt]

so Miller says some of the men (not coaches apparently) are mad at her
really? imagine that
all you've done is say you should be paid as much as Sandlin and the budgets should be the same
can't imagine why they'd the relationship would be icy
it's more or less saying take money from the men and give it to me

imagine you are in a company where your business unit shows a healthy profit
a manager from another unit that is bleeding money says she should be paid as much as your manager and that they should have the same budget
you better believe the relationship between these two units would be icy

Couple of things regarding the money for each program. The men's team has more staff who get paid more money to essentially do less work than the women's staff. The women use the same person for strength and conditioning and equipment whereas the men have two people (one for equipment, one for strength and conditioning.) The men's DoHO does the same job as the women's DoHO yet gets paid around $40,000 more for his job.

Also, in 2010 when funding was cut to the women's team by approximately $100,000, the men's funding increased by approximately $100,000. Coincidence? I think not. Looks like money has already been siphoned from one program and into another. And not for the benefit of Miller's team.
This information is easily accessed through the Department of Education and the Equity in Athletics Database. I'll post the link in an hour or so when I am near my computer.

 

[KTDC]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Couple of things regarding the money for each program. The men's team has more staff who get paid more money to essentially do less work than the women's staff. The women use the same person for strength and conditioning and equipment whereas the men have two people (one for equipment, one for strength and conditioning.) The men's DoHO does the same job as the women's DoHO yet gets paid around $40,000 more for his job.

Also, in 2010 when funding was cut to the women's team by approximately $100,000, the men's funding increased by approximately $100,000. Coincidence? I think not. Looks like money has already been siphoned from one program and into another. And not for the benefit of Miller's team.
This information is easily accessed through the Department of Education and the Equity in Athletics Database. I'll post the link in an hour or so when I am near my computer.

So are we arguing here that women's hockey programs are supposed to be funded dollar for dollar with the men's programs or the school/athletic department is going to get sued? That will convince a lot of new schools to add women's hockey.

 

[CrankIt]

So are we arguing here that women's hockey programs are supposed to be funded dollar for dollar with the men's programs or the school/athletic department is going to get sued? That will convince a lot of new schools to add women's hockey.

Have you heard of Title IX? It does not only apply to opportunities but to resources as well. The same resources you provide your men's athletes, you must provide to your women's athletes. I'd say a budget half the size of the men's is not equal to providing the same amount of resources.

 

[KTDC]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Have you heard of Title IX? It does not only apply to opportunities but to resources as well. The same resources you provide your men's athletes, you must provide to your women's athletes. I'd say a budget half the size of the men's is not equal to providing the same amount of resources.

So you are saying they should be funded dollar for dollar.

 

[CrankIt]

So you are saying they should be funded dollar for dollar.

I'm saying that all teams should be funded competitively with the men's programs at every institution. For example, the men's ice hockey team at Wisconsin had a budget of just over 1 million last year. The women's team had a budget of $726,501 so about 72% of the men's budget. The men's program carried three more players so that factors in slightly. At UMD, the men's team had a budget of $533,322 where the women had a budget of $259,732 so about 49% of what the men operated on. You're telling me a budget less than half of your less successful make program is fair or even morally and ethically right?

 

[Eeyore]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Have you heard of Title IX? It does not only apply to opportunities but to resources as well. The same resources you provide your men's athletes, you must provide to your women's athletes.

No. This is absolutely not true. I've posted links to the actual DOE regulations before, but here they are again.

Title IX is entirely about the opportunities provided to students. The relative compensation of men's and women's coaches is relevant to Title IX only to the extent that such a comparison provides evidence of relative opportunities. You'd think the fact that the coaches of men's and women's teams in the same sport almost always have disparate salaries would clue people in to the fact that that just is not itself a Title IX violation, but I guess not. Typically, though, if all of the institutions are doing it and no one is winning court cases brought against them about it, then it almost certainly isn't an inherent violation.

This is like trying to explain hybrid icing in the way you have to repeat the same things over and over again.

 

[Blackbeard]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

who gives a rats behind what Russians think

You certainly should...for at least a couple of reasons.

Your question appears to lay bare your lack of knowledge of the Second World War and you wouldn't be worse off for brushing up on the details and the significance of the Battle of Stalingrad specifically, and the history of what the Russian people have endured through wars, generally. No other country on the planet even comes close.

More immediately, as we speak, and for several months now, the reckless criminal sociopaths that pass for leaders in your country, basing their operations out of their compound in DC, are and have been, on your behalf, constantly and openly provoking Russia (another nuclear power, by the way) and has actually committed an act of war against Russia with their monumentally stupid financial sanctions in an attempt to get their way. Russia is not Grenada.

So, you should be concerned what Russians think...extremely concerned.

Fortunately for you, Putin is the only adult in the room (but at least there's one)...his is the only cool head that is prevailing while Obama & Kerry continue to attempt to demonize him and his country with nothing but lies that only the gullible or willfully blind or woefully uninformed can't see through. If the vodka swilling Yeltsin still had his hand on the button during the last six months you and I might not be having this conversation. Russia could literally crush the USA financially in a few days at most if it wanted to and your life would be upside down for a very long and indefinite period of time but it, thanks to Putin, keeps choosing the high road which is a concept that is foreign to your dangerous, irresponsible, childish, criminally insane leaders.

So, again, you should be concerned what the Russians think...extremely concerned.

and the US pretty much defeated the Japs alone
if anybody is offended about that, too bad, it's a fact

Here's another fact and one that you should be offended about. It details exactly what your government thinks of you, how they are constantly manipulating your perceptions and how you are nothing but cannon fodder to them, being used and abused and lied to constantly. You want to discover the truth about how that shiny badge of honour that you seem to so proudly wear on your chest with respect to you and the Japanese and WW2 came to be pinned on your chest?

Then top up your hot chocolate and as long as your IQ is greater than your inseam, get prepared to get ******ed off, very ******ed off.

You won't finish this in one sitting and I strongly recommend that you open every link in the article and watch every video since doing so is critical to getting a full understanding of the scope of the crime. You mean absolutely nothing to your government other than your being an object to be milked.

http://jamesperloff.com/2014/11/06/pearl-harbor-roosevelts-911/

 

[Eeyore]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

You might want to adjust the settings on your tooth fillings because they're picking up the Harry Turtledove Channel again.

 

[CrankIt]

No. This is absolutely not true. I've posted links to the actual DOE regulations before, but here they are again.

Title IX is entirely about the opportunities provided to students. The relative compensation of men's and women's coaches is relevant to Title IX only to the extent that such a comparison provides evidence of relative opportunities. You'd think the fact that the coaches of men's and women's teams in the same sport almost always have disparate salaries would clue people in to the fact that that just is not itself a Title IX violation, but I guess not. Typically, though, if all of the institutions are doing it and no one is winning court cases brought against them about it, then it almost certainly isn't an inherent violation.

This is like trying to explain hybrid icing in the way you have to repeat the same things over and over again.

Funds and resources fall under the umbrella of "equal opportunity." The UMTC is currently under investigation for displacing the women's track team in order to build a bigger facility for their football team. In this case, the women's track team is not being given the same opportunity to have a facility in order to give more money, funds, resources to the football team. Let's say a men's hockey program is given the funds for 15 scholarship spots (aka money) but a women's program is only given 10. Would you say that there is equal opportunity there for a female athlete that may be experiencing a financial hardship?

This is like trying to explain hybrid icing in the way you have to repeat the same things over and over again.

 

[hockeynut]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

This is like trying to explain hybrid icing in the way you have to repeat the same things over and over again.

Only in that the rules have changed.

Gender equity and politically correct speech are one in the same. The rules and goal line are continually changed/moved so as to keep folks off balance and confused. That way the rules can constantly be upgraded to fit the narrative of the day. There is never a "mission accomplished" moment.


A little GWB reference there to make some folks heads spin around.

 

[Eeyore]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Funds and resources fall under the umbrella of "equal opportunity." The UMTC is currently under investigation for displacing the women's track team in order to build a bigger facility for their football team. In this case, the women's track team is not being given the same opportunity to have a facility in order to give more money, funds, resources to the football team. Let's say a men's hockey program is given the funds for 15 scholarship spots (aka money) but a women's program is only given 10. Would you say that there is equal opportunity there for a female athlete that may be experiencing a financial hardship?

You really have no idea what you are talking about. Again, I suggest reading the regulations; I realize that that's no fun but it's a surprisingly effective way to learn what the regulations are. Your hypothetical isn't relevant to the point you've been trying to make. Do you at least recognize that the number of available scholarships has a much more direct relationship with the available opportunities for student athletes than do the salaries of the coaches? So even if I agree that this displays a lack of equity, it doesn't advance the point you were trying to make.

Aside from which, the answer to your hypothetical is that you haven't provided enough information to determine whether or not this indicates a lack of equal opportunity. The question of whether an institution is in compliance with Title IX is addressed at a higher level. There is no problem whatsoever with providing one gender fewer opportunities in a single sport so long as the school provides opportunities that are substantially equitable across the entire athletic department. That's how the investigation you mentioned will be conducted: looking at the entire athletic department and the plans for the facilities that will replace the outdoor track will be critically important there.

Originally, you focused on the question of the relative salaries of the coaches of the men's and women's hockey teams. That's what I was responding to and which your current post doesn't address. As I said, it's not entirely irrelevant but its importance is only indirect and whether disparate salaries affect the quality or quantity of the opportunities for female athletes. You'll need to make some sort of case that it does rather than bringing up other things. And I'll repeat: the fact that there are large disparities between those salaries at pretty much every school and that none of them are being investigated FOR THAT ISSUE should give you pause in asserting the claims you've been making.

 

[joecct]

You certainly should...for at least a couple of reasons.

Your question appears to lay bare your lack of knowledge of the Second World War and you wouldn't be worse off for brushing up on the details and the significance of the Battle of Stalingrad specifically, and the history of what the Russian people have endured through wars, generally. No other country on the planet even comes close.

More immediately, as we speak, and for several months now, the reckless criminal sociopaths that pass for leaders in your country, basing their operations out of their compound in DC, are and have been, on your behalf, constantly and openly provoking Russia (another nuclear power, by the way) and has actually committed an act of war against Russia with their monumentally stupid financial sanctions in an attempt to get their way. Russia is not Grenada.

So, you should be concerned what Russians think...extremely concerned.

Fortunately for you, Putin is the only adult in the room (but at least there's one)...his is the only cool head that is prevailing while Obama & Kerry continue to attempt to demonize him and his country with nothing but lies that only the gullible or willfully blind or woefully uninformed can't see through. If the vodka swilling Yeltsin still had his hand on the button during the last six months you and I might not be having this conversation. Russia could literally crush the USA financially in a few days at most if it wanted to and your life would be upside down for a very long and indefinite period of time but it, thanks to Putin, keeps choosing the high road which is a concept that is foreign to your dangerous, irresponsible, childish, criminally insane leaders.

So, again, you should be concerned what the Russians think...extremely concerned.



Here's another fact and one that you should be offended about. It details exactly what your government thinks of you, how they are constantly manipulating your perceptions and how you are nothing but cannon fodder to them, being used and abused and lied to constantly. You want to discover the truth about how that shiny badge of honour that you seem to so proudly wear on your chest with respect to you and the Japanese and WW2 came to be pinned on your chest?

Then top up your hot chocolate and as long as your IQ is greater than your inseam, get prepared to get ******ed off, very ******ed off.

You won't finish this in one sitting and I strongly recommend that you open every link in the article and watch every video since doing so is critical to getting a full understanding of the scope of the crime. You mean absolutely nothing to your government other than your being an object to be milked.

http://jamesperloff.com/2014/11/06/pearl-harbor-roosevelts-911/

This moved me so much I just had to play the Internationale .

 

[ne7minder]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

You guys really should start a separate thread to hector each other about each others opinions on WWI and II. It's not that it isn't fascinating, it isn't, it's that its so far off thread and has gone on long enough off thread that it deserves a home of it's own.

 

[ARM]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

It's not that it isn't fascinating, it isn't, it's that its so far off thread and has gone on long enough off thread that it deserves a home of it's own.

And not on this forum. The Cafe is the perfect place for this and other topics that have nothing to do with women's college hockey.

 

[pokechecker]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

At UMD, the men's team had a budget of $533,322 where the women had a budget of $259,732 so about 49% of what the men operated on. You're telling me a budget less than half of your less successful make program is fair or even morally and ethically right?

yes it is fair when you consider the men's program turns $350,000 profit while the women lose well over $1,000,000
in fact if anything it is unfair to the men's team

remember, UMD is a D2 school, they do not have a hoops or football team that brings in tons of money like the Big10 (14) schools

here are some of UMD's North division conference schools:
University of Mary
University of Minnesota - Crookston
Minnesota State - Moorehead
Minot State
Northern State University

and South division conference schools:
Concordia
Augustana
University of Sioux Falls
Upper Iowa
Wayne State
Southwest Minnesota State

do these schools sound like they have money? can you even identify where the schools are without an internet search?
obviously some you can only because the location is in the name

the amazing thing is that UMD even has a D1 women's hockey program given the facts
given the facts, it should be seen that UMD has been trying to eat steak on a hot dog budget

 

[vicb]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

yes it is fair when you consider the men's program turns (a) profit while the women lose well over (mega bucks)
in fact if anything it is unfair to the men's team

..............
the amazing thing is that (insert most schools name) even has a D1 women's hockey program given the facts
given the facts, it should be seen that (insert most schools name) has been trying to eat steak on a hot dog budget

Fixed your post.