September 1st of Junior Year question

[HockeyEast33]

Re: September 1st of Junior Year question

Here is another thing to share with your daughter if she wants to play D1 or D3.

A lot can change in a Junior and Senior year. The story I tell MN kids is Bethaney Brausen entering her Senior year at MN and a Captain as a Junior on last years Undefeated Team) was not selected as a U16 to go to National Camp from MN before her junior year. She went out and had an incredible Junior and in her Senior year in HS and was named Ms. Hockey in MN the highest HS Honor and took an early commitment to MN before her Senior Year.

Kids grow, train, pound thousands of pucks, lift, do speed work and learn how to put it all together. Others don't committ and enjoy dating and parties and priorities change. Both choices are personal and correct.

This is a true statement - there are definitely late bloomers that aren't on anybody's radar until Junior or even Senior year. Unfortunately, the reality is that the recruiting process is moving earlier and commitments now at the D1 level are made largely in the junior year and few spots are left by the end of the junior year (let alone the start of the senior season), so you have to at least be on the radar by end of sophomore year. This process has moved forward 6-12 months in just the last 3-5 years. So fewer and fewer late bloomers will have the opportunity to play D1 hockey (unless they REALLY bloom!). These kids more and more will be destined for D3 programs that commit later.

The other end of this spectrum is that it appears anecdotally that early commits are being dropped at a higher rate than in the past. No surprise really, because while there are late bloomers there are also early bloomers/late faders. More than a couple of early commits on the 13-14 list were dropped in the senior year after lack of progression in their play (plateauing). This is where an opening might be created for a late bloomer. But unless it is D1 at all costs, kids not getting quality D1 coach time by mid junior year should be pursuing D3 IMHO. Always exceptions of course.

 

[AggiesHockey]

Re: September 1st of Junior Year question

Good thread. I hope lots of sophomore & junior parents are reading it. Our daughter is starting college this year, so we were in your spot two years ago. Hard to add much to what joehockey & Illinois have already stated. But I'll re-emphasize a couple points:

It is extremely important for your daughter (with parent's assistance, guidance, and cajoling) to make the contacts & do the unofficial visits. I have some folks whose attitude was "I made it to National camp, so the coaches should know me / know what position I play / recruit me." It's a big dance, and your daughter's initiative is the only thing that will get her on the coaches' radar at some schools. Why would a coach want to recruit a hundred players who have shown no interest in going to their school?

I would definitely respond to every email you got in a timely fashion, and keep your options open at this point. But more important than who emailed you on Sept 1: Contact the schools your daugther is interested in regardless of whether they sent you an email. In my daughter's case, email & unofficial visits opened some doors that we didn't know were there just based on the emails. And there was one school that sent multiple glowing emails to my daughter and every elite player my daughter knows, practically begging them to wear the vaunted crimson jersey. Treat those emails with a grain of salt.

Joe's advice: "Have your daughter develop a Hockey Bio and write a letter to the Head Coach of the Programs she wants to attend and start the communications process" is right on. Including the bio when you email the coach tells the coach that she's on the ball. The coach might not remember your kid from National camp, or might not remember details (shoots left, etc.). Why make him or her write a follow-up email that basically requests more information? Put that information right in the coaches' hands. List the hockey accomplishments; list the academic accomplishments; the leadership positions that she has held (whether in hockey or anything else); position; vital stats; your daughter's coach (with email & phone number). If not the head coach, then an assistant who has worked closely with your daughter, and whom you trust to be a reliable contact.

There is a book 'college hockey guide - women's edition' that we found to be somewhat useful. You can get it from Amazon. But if you follow the advice given by joehockey & illinoisdad, you probably don't need the book.

Note: I mentioned National camp twice above. If she made it there, congrats! Her path is undoubtedly going to be easier. If not, there are other routes to D1 hockey, but she will have to work harder to get there.

This is all great experience for that day when she hits the real job market. Good luck!

 

[Swede]

Re: September 1st of Junior Year question

The comments in this thread are great. As one person said, make sure she takes the SAT's and ACT's by Feb or March. My daughter had not taken the SAT's or ACT's yet and the NESCAC coaches were not too happy when we visited in April as they want to know where each of their recruits stands academically.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: September 1st of Junior Year question

By the way, I have never heard the statistic of 25% of the girls quitting / leaving D1 sometime prior to graduating is that a "real" stat? That is definitely food for thought! Thank you all again for all of the great advise.

That is a real stat and probably at the low end. Numbers were presented on this board about 3 years ago for all 12 ECAC schools over a 5 to 6 year period. The numbers per school over that period ranged from 19% to 50% of players no longer playing with the school in their senior year. The average was about 30-35%.

Look at it this way, if a recruit class consists of 6 players, and two drop off along the way, that is a 33% fallout. Many of those that fallout will continue with school, but just drop the sport.

Been thru the process twice, and our youngest is a senior this year. Her senior class is the first one at her school in over EIGHT years were the complete recruit class (7 of them) are all still with the team in their senior year.

 

[96IllinoisDad]

Re: September 1st of Junior Year question

That is a real stat and probably at the low end. Numbers were presented on this board about 3 years ago for all 12 ECAC schools over a 5 to 6 year period. The numbers per school over that period ranged from 19% to 50% of players no longer playing with the school in their senior year. The average was about 30-35%.

Look at it this way, if a recruit class consists of 6 players, and two drop off along the way, that is a 33% fallout. Many of those that fallout will continue with school, but just drop the sport.

Been thru the process twice, and our youngest is a senior this year. Her senior class is the first one at her school in over EIGHT years were the complete recruit class (7 of them) are all still with the team in their senior year.

I think a big part of that is injury. Which is why you need to ask the question "If you blew out your knee (or nowadays had multiple concussions) and had to quit hockey, would you be happy at this school?"

 

[OnMAA]

Re: September 1st of Junior Year question

One key piece of advice.....

At some point in the process, some schools may ask where they are ranked in your priority order. NEVER say to different schools that they are your number one. Coaches and recruiters talk and compare notes all the time. Be open and frank with your conversations, schools will do the same if they get the sens you re frank with them. Schools really interested will give you the straight goods. Ask them point blank what your chances are to be part of their program, and what it takes to get there if you sense they are non-committal. For some this means better scores, for others improved play in certain areas. For one of our D's, when her ACT went up by 5 points from one test to the next, all of a sudden there was a lot of renewed interest, and she got into the school of her choice as a result. Marks can make a big difference. Players with good marks are often used as boosters to get other players in, specially for schools with high academic standards. Besides, you cannot go wrong with good marks, it opens doors all over the place.

Not sure if things have changed, but 4 to 8 years ago when we were going through this, the main moving/discussions/accpetance was done in the summer and fall heading into senior year. Junior year was the time frame to explore options, learn about schools and take the ACT/SAT.

Good luck to all. It can be a long and arduous process. The journey to get there is almost as important as getting there and the real part of the learning process.

Don't get discouraged when a schools loses interest. Happens all the time, unless you are a Blue Chipper. Schools cast a wide net and narrow that to manageable numbers. Many schools have the same top level prospects on thier list, so once they commit, the schools that don't get them then go down the list of their prospects to fill the spot. I like to refer to this as the second or third wave. If you are part of that wave, chances are spots may open up for you during the summer/early fall of your senior year.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: September 1st of Junior Year question

I think a big part of that is injury. Which is why you need to ask the question "If you blew out your knee (or nowadays had multiple concussions) and had to quit hockey, would you be happy at this school?"

My credo is this.......AAA is All About Academics...Not some lettering on a hockey jacket...Pick your school for the academics first...Even if hockey falls away, you have that to fall back on...

 

[pokechecker]

Re: September 1st of Junior Year question

Most D1 players find that certain majors are simply not feasible to pursue - particularly lab intensive ones (sciences, pre-med, etc.). I know of numerous girls who wanted to major in some form of pre-med or engineering that were told by their coaches or team academic advisors that they could not do that because the class schedules conflcited with practice/conditioning/video sessions.

I'd say if that is the case you have selected the wrong coach & school.

 

[joehockey]

Re: September 1st of Junior Year question

I'd say if that is the case you have selected the wrong coach & school.

All part of the homework to do up front - at some schools possible others not.

RPI is a great example of an Engineering friendly school many/most you have trouble due to schedule.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: September 1st of Junior Year question

Many of the D1 players (Ivies aside) now attend school during the summer to lighten their course loads during the season (which is effectively 75% of the academic year). Most D1 players find that certain majors are simply not feasible to pursue - particularly lab intensive ones (sciences, pre-med, etc.). I know of numerous girls who wanted to major in some form of pre-med or engineering that were told by their coaches or team academic advisors that they could not do that because the class schedules conflcited with practice/conditioning/video sessions.

Personally would stay away from a school where the Coach sais...Don't take Pre-Med or engineering, if that is what you want to take. Have two daughters that both combined varsity with Pre-med at a good schools with success. Sure it is hard work, but it can be done. Their sacrifice, give up a lot of social hours. Couple of great better known examples of players who did the same combination with excellence both in the class room and on the ice are Bendus and Zupon.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: September 1st of Junior Year question

Speaking from experience... As a parent you go from a fan to a therapist. Four hours a day six days a week from the last week in August to first week in March.

Yup. Know that feeling. As parents we support our kids through thick and thin, and there are times when you are actually at a loss for words, and just have to tell them to keep their chin up, work hard and stick with it and good things will happen. Them knowing that you are there for them when they need you is the best support you can give them.

 

[HockeyEast33]

Re: September 1st of Junior Year question

All part of the homework to do up front - at some schools possible others not.

RPI is a great example of an Engineering friendly school many/most you have trouble due to schedule.

Are you saying RPI is a place where girls have trouble majoring in engineering due to schedule conflicts or that it isn't? If there was one place where you would think they would be accomodating to players majoring in engineering, it would certainly be RPI....

 

[joehockey]

Re: September 1st of Junior Year question

Are you saying RPI is a place where girls have trouble majoring in engineering due to schedule conflicts or that it isn't? If there was one place where you would think they would be accomodating to players majoring in engineering, it would certainly be RPI....

No just the opposite

 

[Hockeydad4two]

Re: September 1st of Junior Year question

No just the opposite

I have to agree. With my daughter, they bent over backwards to accommodate her engineering classes.

 

[FireInTheHeart]

Re: September 1st of Junior Year question

SO much good advice on this thread! Wish I could "like" every post . Having been through the process, I'd just add a couple of thoughts.

1. I've been reading this board for years, since it's one of the only sources of advice out there. Our daughter's high school coach is a good guy, but his main, main focus is on his high school team. He was quite willing to take phone calls from coaches, and gave her very nice recommendations...but he is *not* up to date on current college recruiting stats/issues/challenges. If we had relied on him, she would never have had the opportunity to play college hockey.

2. The one thing that DID surprise us was when a couple of schools just stopped communicating with her - no reason, no explanation, no "thanks but no thanks we have a top Canadian player coming." She wasn't sure if she had done something wrong, if she was supposed to keep at it, should just shrug it off....that was confusing. We would have appreciated some sort of explanation, but that's not going to happen. In the case of one school, I am personally *very* glad she's not playing there, so it worked out just as well.

3. If we had it to do over, we would be *much* more direct with coaches, including asking more specific questions about "where are you ranking her on your recruiting list?" "How likely are you to be offering her a scholarship?" ""Where are you in the recruiting process now?" "When do you expect to have a decision?" Etc. I don't think we would have received answers all the time, but we would have been a little more bold in asking.

4. The bio and possibly video are a good idea as well. If your daughter is below the first tier, it's easy for her to get lost in the shuffle - anything she can do (within reason, of course) to stand out and highlight her skills and possible contributions is a good idea. I don't think you need to go all Hollywood on it, but a nice selection of video clips might be helpful.

5. Note to parents of younger players - use your smartphone to get some nice clips of your daughter contributing and save them for future use. This is true for national camp players, top tier, etc. Sometimes one bad game can leave a negative impression on a coach, unbeknownst to you. Providing them with highlights can possibly reframe a coach's perspective.

6. On the flip side, one really great game can in fact make a big impression. The coach is going to want to see the your daughter can do more than play just one game, but sometimes it puts her on the map in a way nothing else can. It's a big reason to encourage her to "play hard every game, every shift." It's true - you never know who's watching.

7. Assistant coaches can be your best friend or worst enemy in this process . They have a huge input to the process...but they aren't going to pull the trigger themselves. Obviously listen to them, but don't let their word take the place of the head coach feedback. Be courteous to everyone, including trainers, equipment manager, admin folks, etc. Not only is it plain good manners, but you never know what they are saying after you leave.

8. Reiterate - she should love the school. It's true - injuries can happen at any time. And yes, the stats are true: not all who start D1 will end up there. Our daughter loves it, but it is intense! She enjoys the challenge and high calibre of even the practices. But, it's easy to see it's not for everyone.

Best of luck to you and your daughter.

 

[Hux]

Re: September 1st of Junior Year question

A factor not addressed, but one I have seen at least a few times each year: The parent who ruins it for their kid. I saw it this past weekend in Vermont. I watched a coach interested in a player find out who she was (or who, by reputation, her parent was) and actually cross the player off their list.

Don't be a d-o-u-c-h-e. DO NOT march up and down the glass making gesticulations and utterances regarding the play of your kid, or others. DO NOT stand in the corner and have conversations with others about how great your kid is, hoping the assembled coaches down the way will hear you and take notice of your kid. They notice YOU and are not impressed. When the time comes, DO NOT blather on to coaches how YOU think your daughter can be used by the coach's program to achieve success. Let her do the talking and selling.

Trust me, it does not take long to establish a "reputation" for yourself if you are a tool. There may be hundreds of teams and thousands of players, but word spreads fast. Coaches see. Coaches hear. Coaches talk to one another. (hell, half the assistants share rooms at tournaments to cut expenses)

I think a big part of that is injury. Which is why you need to ask the question "If you blew out your knee (or nowadays had multiple concussions) and had to quit hockey, would you be happy at this school?"

Another factor is playing time. There is an expectation that a player will be able to fulfill a role. Too often the player/parent do not accept that role. Often, a player does not adapt/integrate into the system used and finds herself sitting in the middle of the bench...or in the stands. Some stick it out, happy with their friends and the school. Others look for greener pastures.

My credo is this.......AAA is All About Academics...Not some lettering on a hockey jacket...Pick your school for the academics first...Even if hockey falls away, you have that to fall back on...

Disagree with this. You have five years to complete four years of hockey. While you can play for the rest of your life at various levels, now is the time you will be able to play at what is likely to be your highest level. Go to the program that is the best fit for your HOCKEY goals, especially if they are offering the coin. Get the most out of your college athletics experience. You/she has worked long and hard to get to this point. In all likelihood whatever you major in is not what you will be actively engaged in five, 10, or 15 years down the road.

Obviously, academics are important. Do your best while in school. If things go south you will have the academics to go to another school and pursue whatever needs to be pursued to achieve your career goals. You have the rest of your life to work out the details of exactly what it is you want to do in life. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much emphasis is placed on getting into some super elite institution and having that sheepskin hanging on your wall.

I'd say if that is the case you have selected the wrong coach & school.

Really? Said coach and institution are committing a considerable sum of money for your talents and participation in their program. They know when the practice schedule is, and likely have a pretty good handle on what majors clash with that schedule. Total waste of resources if a player cannot be there to fulfill her part of the bargain. (Obviously this applies to scholarship school)

 

[CrossCheck]

Re: September 1st of Junior Year question

"Disagree with this. You have five years to complete four years of hockey. While you can play for the rest of your life at various levels, now is the time you will be able to play at what is likely to be your highest level. Go to the program that is the best fit for your HOCKEY goals, especially if they are offering the coin. Get the most out of your college athletics experience. You/she has worked long and hard to get to this point. In all likelihood whatever you major in is not what you will be actively engaged in five, 10, or 15 years down the road.

Obviously, academics are important. Do your best while in school. If things go south you will have the academics to go to another school and pursue whatever needs to be pursued to achieve your career goals. You have the rest of your life to work out the details of exactly what it is you want to do in life. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much emphasis is placed on getting into some super elite institution and having that sheepskin hanging on your wall."

I'm hoping for your kid's sake that you are joking. Otherwise, you Sir, are what's known as a hockeydeucemoron.

 

[ARM]

Re: September 1st of Junior Year question

Get the most out of your college athletics experience. You/she has worked long and hard to get to this point. In all likelihood whatever you major in is not what you will be actively engaged in five, 10, or 15 years down the road.

The last sentence tends to be true in a large number of cases. As for whether to put more emphasis on hockey or education, that is a decision each young lady has to make for herself. It's her life to live. Once a person decides that dollar signs will trump all else, that choice can easily force every decision in life. Such a path may not be the one that brings the most happiness. My advice would be: decide what you want to do, make the best of your choice, and don't have any regrets. Eventually the ride will stop, and you'll have to get off and leave behind all that you've earned. Enjoy the ride.

 

[HockeyEast33]

Re: September 1st of Junior Year question

....Disagree with this. You have five years to complete four years of hockey. While you can play for the rest of your life at various levels, now is the time you will be able to play at what is likely to be your highest level. Go to the program that is the best fit for your HOCKEY goals, especially if they are offering the coin. Get the most out of your college athletics experience. You/she has worked long and hard to get to this point. In all likelihood whatever you major in is not what you will be actively engaged in five, 10, or 15 years down the road.

Obviously, academics are important. Do your best while in school. If things go south you will have the academics to go to another school and pursue whatever needs to be pursued to achieve your career goals. You have the rest of your life to work out the details of exactly what it is you want to do in life. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much emphasis is placed on getting into some super elite institution and having that sheepskin hanging on your wall....

So in an earlier post in this thread I said that some girls want to play D1 hockey and it doesn't matter where as long as they play D1. The above way of thinking is what leads to that approach. Personally, I believe in the value of attending "super-elite" institutions. Others don't - differing viewpoints. The key thing is that your daughter has to figure out what is important to her.

 

[Genbeau]

Re: September 1st of Junior Year question

I tried to look back into the, uh, annals of the board, looking for info on hockey scouting but was unsuccessful. Is there an info clearinghouse on players that one could review to help see where your snowflake stands? Maybe gives additional insight from a neutral 3rd party as to whether a player is better suited for d1, d3, or even club? Thanks! Great thread btw.