SCOTUS 10: Pack the Court!

[trixR4kids]

Re: SCOTUS 10: Pack the Court!

The filibuster is gone. They have no power to fight anything.

By fight I don't mean fillibuster, I mean make every one of the 50 R senators vote to confirm Kavanaugh including Collins/Murkowski so that it becomes more difficult to become reelected and you can tie them to this vote.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: SCOTUS 10: Pack the Court!

By fight I don't mean fillibuster, I mean make every one of the 50 R senators vote to confirm Kavanaugh including Collins/Murkowski so that it becomes more difficult to become reelected and you can tie them to this vote.

Those 3 Democrats are voting for him. It's over. I like your idea but it's another one Democrats won't do. Collins, Murkowski, and Paul are already voting for him. It wasn't much of a fight.

Especially Collins. She's the biggest joke centrist I've ever seen.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: SCOTUS 10: Pack the Court!

Those 3 Democrats are voting for him. It's over. I like your idea but it's another one Democrats won't do. Collins, Murkowski, and Paul are already voting for him. It wasn't much of a fight.

Especially Collins. She's the biggest joke centrist I've ever seen.

Playing the long game works for the other side but this side is too afraid to use similar tactics. It's both mind-boggling and frustrating.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: SCOTUS 10: Pack the Court!

Playing the long game works for the other side but this side is too afraid to use similar tactics. It's both mind-boggling and frustrating.

They still haven't figured out what the Republicans have been doing to them since 1980. I keep hoping they do. It's too late for my generation but maybe my kids...........

 

[Rover]

Re: SCOTUS 10: Pack the Court!

I guess I just don't see why you can't fight both. I guarantee the Republicans would even if they didn't have the votes and wouldn't be reaching across the aisle to try and appease Republicans for no reason.

I know they have less power when they blocked Garland, that doesn't mean the Republicans wouldn't be in lock step on this issue if they were a minority in both houses.

I seem to recall GOP votes to confirm both Kagan and Sotomayer so its not quite as simple as you make it sound. If people in these states are taking it in the shorts because of GOP policies, I have a stunning idea. How about they stop electing Republicans, including Trump? Otherwise I prefer to preserve Dem incumbents (recall every one of those people voted AGAINST GOP tax theft this year) and make it that much easier to win back the Senate.

 

[Rover]

Re: SCOTUS 10: Pack the Court!

Those 3 Democrats are voting for him. It's over. I like your idea but it's another one Democrats won't do. Collins, Murkowski, and Paul are already voting for him. It wasn't much of a fight.

Especially Collins. She's the biggest joke centrist I've ever seen.

They won't do it because its a stupid idea. Symbolic victories with a huge downside do no good. That's like saying boy Dukakis and Mondale really fought the good fight and stuck to their principles as the Dem nominees. Okay, so they got blown out in landslide victories by the Republicans, but hey as least we have our purity intact, right?

 

[unofan]

I seem to recall GOP votes to confirm both Kagan and Sotomayer so its not quite as simple as you make it sound. If people in these states are taking it in the shorts because of GOP policies, I have a stunning idea. How about they stop electing Republicans, including Trump? Otherwise I prefer to preserve Dem incumbents (recall every one of those people voted AGAINST GOP tax theft this year) and make it that much easier to win back the Senate.

It's never going to be easy to win back the Senate. It's the one vestige left where property still votes. And there's a lot of property where cows out number people that will go Republican almost every time.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: SCOTUS 10: Pack the Court!

I seem to recall GOP votes to confirm both Kagan and Sotomayer so its not quite as simple as you make it sound.

Yeah there's also a not so slight difference between 50-49 and 60-40 with a few defections. I would also argue those two weren't as far left as Kavanaugh is to the right so perhaps that's why Collins could pretend to be a centrist and vote for Sotomayer. That said she only gets that luxury this time around if the 2 or 3 of aforementioned D's vote to confirm. I think it's important that the D's don't let her play both sides of the fence and make it easier in her next election. You need to tie her to Trump as much as possible and not let her get to use something like this as an example. And on the off chance that she does vote the other way (not gonna happen) then those 49 votes are all that much important.

If people in these states are taking it in the shorts because of GOP policies, I have a stunning idea. How about they stop electing Republicans, including Trump?

Sure, they should also vote out Manchin, Heitkamp, and Donnoly in the next primary as well because those guys enable their taking it in the shorts by confirming Kavanaugh among all the other things they do.

Otherwise I prefer to preserve Dem incumbents (recall every one of those people voted AGAINST GOP tax theft this year) and make it that much easier to win back the Senate.

And let me guess you would've been ok with them voting for the GOP tax cuts because they weren't going to win anyhow? Or are you contradicting your own point?

They won't do it because its a stupid idea. Symbolic victories with a huge downside do no good. That's like saying boy Dukakis and Mondale really fought the good fight and stuck to their principles as the Dem nominees. Okay, so they got blown out in landslide victories by the Republicans, but hey as least we have our purity intact, right?

Yeah because confirming Kavanaugh means they're going to win and not voting for him is what's going to tip them over the edge and lose. This is almost as dumb as Hillary's strategy of trying to get suburban Republicans to flip their votes because......

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: SCOTUS 10: Pack the Court!

Because I'm feeling ornery, this is where I point out they should've let Gorsuch through and saved the fight for this one. I get why they felt they couldn't let Gorsuch thru after McConnell and Grassley's asshattery with Garland, but some of those political bullets wasted on Gorsuch would be so much more valuable now. Make McConnell abolish the filibuster a month before an election on a nominee that's already underwater on his favorability ratings, for instance.

Ding ding.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: SCOTUS 10: Pack the Court!

Because I'm feeling ornery, this is where I point out they should've let Gorsuch through and saved the fight for this one. I get why they felt they couldn't let Gorsuch thru after McConnell and Grassley's asshattery with Garland, but some of those political bullets wasted on Gorsuch would be so much more valuable now. Make McConnell abolish the filibuster a month before an election on a nominee that's already underwater on his favorability ratings, for instance.

Correct, they already blew their load.

 

[Rover]

Re: SCOTUS 10: Pack the Court!

1) I'm sorry but the notion that Dems should have let Gorsuch sail in and preserve the filibuster to fight Kavanaugh doesn't make sense. Either McConnell gets rid of the filibuster to confirm Gorsuch or he gets rid of it to confirm Kavanaugh. The notion that he wouldn't have done so in an election year flies the face of the dude's 30 year career of putting party over country.

2) Having said that, unlike the tax theft bill its a certainty the Kavanaugh gets confirmed unless he turns out to be a racist or something along those lines. If he's another John Roberts, aka a corporate shill but with no holes in his resume, there's no point in losing Senate seats over him to make a meaningless and toothless point when every seat counts (the ACA repeal example that failed). With the tax bill you get to reverse it once Dems regain power as the last 2 Dem presidents have raised taxes back up on the rich. Therefore a united front was important in the face of an unpopular bill. There is no "long game" on the SCOTUS. From now until the end of time, party with the majority will confirm their justices. There's no hand to play here.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: SCOTUS 10: Pack the Court!

The long game is tying someone like Collins to her confirmation of Kavanaugh and everything else she votes alongside Trump and her party on so she can't pretend to be pro-choice or pro-labor in 2020. There's literally no reason not to make it harder and force all 50 R's to vote to confirm. Same went for the unpopular tax bill which was just as likely to pass if we don't kid ourselves and they were even lucky enough to have some defections on the ACA vote. There's also no evidence that voting not to confirm him will lose them seats in the senate, that part is especially ludicrous, in fact it's more likely that the opposite is true.

 

[Handyman]

Re: SCOTUS 10: Pack the Court!

It's not pointless, even if they have no chance of winning (they don't) you show your constituents that you're against Trump's supreme court nominee who is going to nothing but harm your constituents. There are plenty of reasons to argue the guy isn't qualified (he bought something like $200,000 worth of baseball tickets on loan/credit card debt right before Trump named him, clearly the sign of good judgement) and there's even the possibility that he'll enable Trump in this whole Russia investigation. There's literally no reason not to fight this and they're probably even more likely to lose their reelections if they vote to confirm this guy. Senators like Manchin and Heitkamp are the reason people think there's no real difference between republicans and democrats, they vote to appease their corporate overlords every chance they get, there's no distinction on abortion rights if you're voting to confirm this guy, and you clearly don't want to make it easier for your blue collar workers to unionize if you're voting to confirm him.

But sure, giving a F you to the women and blue collar workers of your state is a great idea and they're totally just gonna cruise through their reelection by confirming Brett Kavanaugh . It's just bad strategy and it shows that they're spineless. Do we not remember how the Republicans did everything in their power to stop Garland from becoming a nominee? Why shouldn't the dems at least try even if it's only symbolic? At the very least it puts the pressure on Murkowski/Collins in their reelection bids as they can no longer pretend to care about abortion rights and all the things I just mentioned after they vote to confirm and it can be used as ammo against them.

You realize what state Heitkamp is from right? You understand where Manchin is from correct? Their constituents arent who you think they are.

 

[Handyman]

Re: SCOTUS 10: Pack the Court!

Playing the long game works for the other side but this side is too afraid to use similar tactics. It's both mind-boggling and frustrating.

Who do you think is going to beat Rand Paul in Kentucky? Who can beat Collins in Maine? You are going to start a war in the Democratic Party over something that makes zero sense. Collins isnt going to lose her job because she voted for Kavanaugh just like she wont for screwing us with Tax Reform. Your idea is as ridiculous as the people who voted Gary Johnson because they wanted to screw the system.

 

[Rover]

Re: SCOTUS 10: Pack the Court!

You realize what state Heitkamp is from right? You understand where Manchin is from correct? Their constituents arent who you think they are.

I don't think he does. Apparently every state is down with Bernie even though some of them regularly send wingnuts to Congress.

 

[Handyman]

Re: SCOTUS 10: Pack the Court!

They won't do it because its a stupid idea. Symbolic victories with a huge downside do no good. That's like saying boy Dukakis and Mondale really fought the good fight and stuck to their principles as the Dem nominees. Okay, so they got blown out in landslide victories by the Republicans, but hey as least we have our purity intact, right?

This...

This is not about principles...this is about winning and if you cause a Civil War in the party over a vote you cant win anyways you deserve to lose.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: SCOTUS 10: Pack the Court!

You realize what state Heitkamp is from right? You understand where Manchin is from correct? Their constituents arent who you think they are.

Yeah I do and I kinda doubt they voted for Manchin/Heitkamp so that they can confirm a guy who wants to crush labor unions more than Republicans already have and take away women's sovereignty over their own body. Even in those states anti-abortion laws aren't popular and people would rather see their material conditions improve.

Who can beat Collins in Maine?

That's not for me to figure out but when every downstream race has seen like a 20 point swing due to Trump and a blue wave is being predicted there's no reason to assume her seat is totally safe in 2020. And this is definitely ammo you can use against her. If you care about winning then it's important not to enable Trump any further than the Dems already have (like many of them already did with repealing Dodd Frank).

 

[Handyman]

Re: SCOTUS 10: Pack the Court!

I don't think he does. Apparently every state is down with Bernie even though some of them regularly send wingnuts to Congress.

I gotta believe he doesnt because otherwise he is just making crap up. People in NoDak and West Virginia arent exactly known for the liberal tendencies.

And the people of Maine love Collins...her votes on these Trumper deals arent going to get her canned. Jesus LePage is their Governor for Christ's Sake. Susan Collins is not some Nazi in their eyes if they can stomach him.

 

[Handyman]

Re: SCOTUS 10: Pack the Court!

Yeah I do and I guarantee they didn't vote for Manchin so that he can confirm a guy who wants to crush labor unions and take away women's sovereignty over their own body. Even in those states anti-abortion laws aren't unpopular and you don't have a ton of white collar workers.

Yeah sure. Why did they vote for Trump then almost 2-1 over Clinton? Is Trump all of a sudden Pro Union and Women's rights? Jesus man for a guy who loves stats you sure do ignore them when they destroy your point.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: SCOTUS 10: Pack the Court!

He ran a white identity populist campaign and Hillary had zero economic plan, people didn't trust her, the Comey letter.... all the stuff we talked about 1000x over already. Also we're talking about 2020 and not 2016 lol. And yes people were stupid enough to think that Trump was going to shake the entire system and get away from corporatist politics and that he didn't really care about abortion. But now that they're seeing that isn't the case you're starting to see the blue wave already and I imagine that's not going to change by 2020. If the Dems run somebody competent even in Maine they might be able to pull off an upset if Doug Jones can get elected in Alabama. But either way there's no reason to make it easier on her.

And the stats aren't on your side for Collins on that one but nice try . I suppose it's possible that Manchin has some pressure from the pro-life democrats but I can't imagine they're the ones that are gonna swing the election one way or the other.
http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/