RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

[engineerhockeyfan]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

This is bull. I have 2 close friends who had DUI convictions in their 20's. Both outstanding gentlemen now. 20 year olds don't always make great decisions. One mistake does not a bad person make. Kids drink beer and sometimes they make bad decisions. I'm willing to bet the percentage of people who ever operated a car at .12 at some point in their lives is at least 1 in 10 and probably much higher. Let the kid live his life.

You are correct, but that doesn't address the character issue regarding the Hobey Baker Award. He showed poor character in those instances as did most of us when getting behind the wheel after a night of drinking.
The fact that he addressed his issue and decided to stay in school and help his team be the best that it can be is what turns around the character issue for me.
As for his on ice performance, you can't beat his numbers.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

I think that the real Hobey question is why did Bill Watson beat out Adam Oates?

 

[realet]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

Good morning, everyone. Quick self-promotion note: I'm going to be on with Rodger Wyland and Ken Schott on AM 980 wrapping up the RPI season at about 11:15 or so, give or take a few minutes.

http://www.foxsports980.com/main.html

 

[DrDemento]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

I think that the real Hobey question is why did Bill Watson beat out Adam Oates?

Don't even begin to get me started on that!

 

[DrDemento]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

This is bull. I have 2 close friends who had DUI convictions in their 20's. Both outstanding gentlemen now. 20 year olds don't always make great decisions. One mistake does not a bad person make. Kids drink beer and sometimes they make bad decisions. I'm willing to bet the percentage of people who ever operated a car at .12 at some point in their lives is at least 1 in 10 and probably much higher. Let the kid live his life.

Valid point-and he should be allowed to live his life. Just not by winning this award. Give him all the other accolades due him-he is, from what I saw, a fantastic hockey player and will do well at the NHL level. Deserving of an award like the Hobey? I just don't think so-but i have felt this way about several of the previous awards given. As usual-just an opinion.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

I disagree strongly-perhaps on ice performance in previous years is wiped off the map-but character is not.

Ah, and this is the crux of the debate, as I understand it.

Without taking either side, it seems that some people are saying that a person with character would not have driven drunk to begin with; while other people are saying that it takes character to own up to a mistake and do what it takes to make things right. Mr. Frattin did work hard to reform and make amends if I understand the assertions made by his supporters.

 

[HighlanderRPI]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

This is bull. I have 2 close friends who had DUI convictions in their 20's. Both outstanding gentlemen now. 20 year olds don't always make great decisions. One mistake does not a bad person make. Kids drink beer and sometimes they make bad decisions. I'm willing to bet the percentage of people who ever operated a car at .12 at some point in their lives is at least 1 in 10 and probably much higher. Let the kid live his life.

In their 20's - how old are they now? I'm certain they weren't being hoisted up on a pedestal for a character-based award the year after the convictions. Sorry, my opinion is pretty strong here - we shouldn't so quickly forgive such severe transgressions with accolades. And Frattin has more than one "mistake" - TWO arrests, AND a league suspension after that.

I don't really want to debate that driving drunk being a "mistake" - it's a conscious choice. It's not "Oops I got behind the wheel of a car after having 4 or 6 beers, put the key in the ignition, started it, put it in drive..." that's not a mistake - poor decision making, yes. I'm glad your friends have learned from their poor choices - but to say Frattin has erased his MULTIPLE mistakes in one years work is of no comparison, frankly, in my mind

 

[IMO]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

Hobey Baker Award Criteria
1. Candidates must exhibit strength of character both on and off the ice.

2. Candidates must contribute to the integrity of the team and display outstanding skills in all phases of the game.

3. Consideration should be given to scholastic achievement and sportmanship.

4. Candidates must comply with all NCAA rules: be full time students in an accredited NCAA college or university; and complete 50% or more of the season.

Look at the number 1 Criteria. Also under Hobey Baker on the site is says "Character Builds Excellence". Character (and integrity) is/are a huge piece of this award.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

Hobey Baker Award Criteria
1. Candidates must exhibit strength of character both on and off the ice.

2. Candidates must contribute to the integrity of the team and display outstanding skills in all phases of the game.

3. Consideration should be given to scholastic achievement and sportmanship.

4. Candidates must comply with all NCAA rules: be full time students in an accredited NCAA college or university; and complete 50% or more of the season.

Look at the number 1 Criteria. Also under Hobey Baker on the site is says "Character Builds Excellence". Character (and integrity) is/are a huge piece of this award.

Clearly, the committee that votes for this award felt that Frattin had very strong character this season. Otherwise, he would not have been in the Hat Trick.

SJHovey said it best over on the Hobey Hat Trick thread...

If any of the 3 finalists win, I'll be fine with that. They are all clearly deserving, as were the other seven who weren't named to the Hat Trick. Pretty hard to argue that Atkinson, Miele or Frattin aren't among the best in all of college hockey this year.

I suspect if Matt Frattin doesn't win, and if you even told him it was because of his off-ice events of 2 years ago and the follow up suspension, the Matt Frattin who returned, and who we've had the pleasure of watching for the last 1 1/2 seasons would be ok with that. I bet he'd be the first to tell you that he made some mistakes, and he has to learn (and has learned) to live with the consequences of those mistakes.

If that's the case, and everything I've seen and heard this year causes me to believe it so, then that change in his character and maturity is going to serve him far better during the remainder of his life than some award and trophy.

 

[Beman]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

Then you're blind. He didn't say "perfect," meathead, he said "vastly improving," and even a toddler could see the difference between the team now and when he took it over.

Really and what would the "difference now" be genius? That they get worse at the end of the season when every other team gets better. The object is to get better at the end of the season not worse get it? It is not a hard concept, even for you."
Are you stalking me?

 

[DrDemento]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

Good to see this thread keeping the fire going-I thought with the loss to NDak that the posting would tail off. The Hobey discussion the animosity between beman and RC-This is still a fun place to be! We have some of the most interesting posters on this entire board and I hope we can keep this up to pass the next 180+ days of off season.

 

[HighlanderRPI]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

Clearly, the committee that votes for this award felt that Frattin had very strong character this season. Otherwise, he would not have been in the Hat Trick.

Yea, because 12 months of not slipping up is ample reason to ignore those pesky issues from 14 months prior. Sorry - it's not
1) Candidates must exhibit IMPROVED strength of character both on and off the ice

Has The committee offered any insight into their thought process on this? I haven't been able to find any

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

Yea, because 12 months of not slipping up is ample reason to ignore those pesky issues from 14 months prior. Sorry - it's not
1) Candidates must exhibit IMPROVED strength of character both on and off the ice

Has The committee offered any insight into their thought process on this? I haven't been able to find any

I'm pretty sure the committee knows what the criteria are

FWIW, Miele is going to win, but it is sure fun watching you freak out over this. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but where were you throwing Gerbe under the bus for his issues, or even Atkinson for what he was arrested for (or the dozens of other players who were Hobey Finalists that had off-ice character issues). Did Frattin do something to you personally? If not, why single out Frattin? I understand that you're a troll, but you are really missing out on a whole lot of other opportunities.

 

[IMO]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

Really and what would the "difference now" be genius? That they get worse at the end of the season when every other team gets better. The object is to get better at the end of the season not worse get it? It is not a hard concept, even for you."
Are you stalking me?

If you knew the injuries this team was dealing with during that time you would not have written this post. Don't dist this team and their accomplishments over your anger with a poster. Grow up.

 

[engineerhockeyfan]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

Good to see this thread keeping the fire going-I thought with the loss to NDak that the posting would tail off. The Hobey discussion the animosity between beman and RC-This is still a fun place to be! We have some of the most interesting posters on this entire board and I hope we can keep this up to pass the next 180+ days of off season.

Totally agree Doc. The Hobey debate has been kept civil and is a debate that should be had accross the USCHO nation.
As for RC/Beman, I can see a couple of really good days of posts. And with IMO getting into the action, it may get ugly.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

I was contemplating Frattin being part of the Hobey Hat Trick, and I have a bit of a different perspective on this (although I think it matches that of EHF). When Frattin was arrested and his scholarship removed, he could have went to Major Junior or Europe. Instead, he decided to work hard at trying to be reinstated with the team on his own dime. If anything, that is showing character and devotion towards college hockey. Yes, Frattin made a mistake in life. Who hasn't? The true showing of your character is how you bounce back from those mistakes.

that is an excellent exposition of one side of the debate.

In the end it sounds like a matter of definition. "character" in responding to a mistake vs "character" in avoiding the mistake in the first place.

Sounds like some of us may need to agree to disagree and then move on. None of the opinionators seem willing to change their definition; and two different definitions of the same word seem to be the crux of the differences.

 

[mathkicks]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

In the end it sounds like a matter of definition. "character" in responding to a mistake vs "character" in avoiding the mistake in the first place.

If "character" means responding to a mistake and not avoiding a mistake then it would behoove a player to make a mistake on purpose then respond well in order to display character. I can't imagine that's what the Hobey judges are looking for.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

that is an excellent exposition of one side of the debate.

In the end it sounds like a matter of definition. "character" in responding to a mistake vs "character" in avoiding the mistake in the first place.

Sounds like some of us may need to agree to disagree and then move on. None of the opinionators seem willing to change their definition; and two different definitions of the same word seem to be the crux of the differences.

There is also the timeline that comes into play as well. Some people feel that the Hobey Baker character criteria encompasses everything from the day the athlete was born, while others feel that it only applies to one particular season.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

Totally agree Doc. The Hobey debate has been kept civil and is a debate that should be had accross the USCHO nation.

It is being debated elsewhere, e.g. http://board.uscho.com/showthread.php?95853-Hobey-Hat-Trick.

 

[jmhusker]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

Yea, because 12 months of not slipping up is ample reason to ignore those pesky issues from 14 months prior. Sorry - it's not
1) Candidates must exhibit IMPROVED strength of character both on and off the ice

Has The committee offered any insight into their thought process on this? I haven't been able to find any

Unless Atkinson or Miele are personal friends of yours I see no point in your carrying on about this. We have no dog in this fight. It all just comes across as sour grapes.