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RPI Engineers 2016-2017: 10 Years on

Re: RPI Engineers 2016-2017: 10 Years on

Buy him out too if need be. If you don't include his 3 seasons as a d3 coach, he had 2 winning seasons. Change is long overdue. It will not be long before Union starts beating us.

I'm pretty sure, at this point, it would require alumni donations. Buyouts can get expensive.
 
Is this for real? If so, to me it seems pretty shocking that a D1 school is seeking donations for uniforms. While I recognize that RPI is a great engineering school, if you are a D1 recruit with any other options, why would you go to a school that doesn't support its program enough to by uniforms, even if its a 3rd set? Most programs have so much schwag for the girls with clothes, equipment etc. that it would be a hard sell in my opinion.

I think they're a D3 school with D1 hockey just like Union and RIT and Clarkson and St. Lawrence and Mercyhurst. Am I missing any others?
 
I'm pretty sure, at this point, it would require alumni donations. Buyouts can get expensive.

With the records of the men's and women's coaches being so very similar wouldn't it be hard to justify not firing the women's coach now that they've fired the men's coach for his poor record/performance as a coach?
 
Re: RPI Engineers 2016-2017: 10 Years on

With the records of the men's and women's coaches being so very similar wouldn't it be hard to justify not firing the women's coach now that they've fired the men's coach for his poor record/performance as a coach?

Unless, of course, the administration doesn't really care about the success of the women's program. It's not like it makes the school any money.
 
Unless, of course, the administration doesn't really care about the success of the women's program. It's not like it makes the school any money.

Neither does the men's team. Neither do many if any sports at a D3 school. So that's not a factor in the equation here.
 
Re: RPI Engineers 2016-2017: 10 Years on

I think they're a D3 school with D1 hockey just like Union and RIT and Clarkson and St. Lawrence and Mercyhurst. Am I missing any others?

Mercyhurst is D-II. Colorado College on the men's side is also D-III.
 
Re: RPI Engineers 2016-2017: 10 Years on

Is this for real? If so, to me it seems pretty shocking that a D1 school is seeking donations for uniforms. While I recognize that RPI is a great engineering school, if you are a D1 recruit with any other options, why would you go to a school that doesn't support its program enough to by uniforms, even if its a 3rd set? Most programs have so much schwag for the girls with clothes, equipment etc. that it would be a hard sell in my opinion.

It was, for a 3rd set. Though I do agree with you.
 
Re: RPI Engineers 2016-2017: 10 Years on

I'm pretty sure, at this point, it would require alumni donations. Buyouts can get expensive.

I would think with the type of alums RPI produces, getting donations should not be that hard.

Based on the attendance I doubt the men's team was some huge money maker.

I would think this could be a Title IX issue if pushed.
 
Re: RPI Engineers 2016-2017: 10 Years on

Neither does the men's team. Neither do many if any sports at a D3 school. So that's not a factor in the equation here.

Sure, but I'm sure the men's team loses a lot less than the women's team does. The expenses are probably greater on that side, but they also sell an extra 2500+ tickets for every game.
 
Re: RPI Engineers 2016-2017: 10 Years on

The part that is disappointing is that maybe if the school (and area) would support the female hockey program with attendance, they wouldn't have to be asking for money. The men's program aren't asking. RPI female hockey last year finished 2nd last in attendance. Not sure about this year but could be even worse. There were many teams that finished below them in terms of their wins and losses, but yet drew many more fans. Its like anything. If you support the program, it will flourish. More top end female hockey players will want to play at RPI if they know they are treated right and if they know they actually have a large fan base. It must be pretty upsetting for those players to play in a totally empty rink for every home game. I've started to follow the men's and woman's programs this year at RPI and one thing that I've noticed compared to other schools is how at RPI, the hockey as far as media attention, as far as fan base, basically in every aspect is focused on the men. Other schools, and pretty successful hockey programs, give the women's program much more attention. Just my 2 cents worth. Hopefully both teams at RPI next year improve drastically and both teams get the support and attention they deserve.
 
The part that is disappointing is that maybe if the school (and area) would support the female hockey program with attendance, they wouldn't have to be asking for money. The men's program aren't asking. RPI female hockey last year finished 2nd last in attendance. Not sure about this year but could be even worse. There were many teams that finished below them in terms of their wins and losses, but yet drew many more fans. Its like anything. If you support the program, it will flourish. More top end female hockey players will want to play at RPI if they know they are treated right and if they know they actually have a large fan base. It must be pretty upsetting for those players to play in a totally empty rink for every home game. I've started to follow the men's and woman's programs this year at RPI and one thing that I've noticed compared to other schools is how at RPI, the hockey as far as media attention, as far as fan base, basically in every aspect is focused on the men. Other schools, and pretty successful hockey programs, give the women's program much more attention. Just my 2 cents worth. Hopefully both teams at RPI next year improve drastically and both teams get the support and attention they deserve.
If the team was winning and getting no support then I would blame the school for not supporting the team enough. The team has a losing record year in year out. Who wants to watch a team not only lose but get outplayed and outshot every game? The team does not score a lot so the game has very little excitement for the average fan. Time will tell if the AD is serious about improving the women's program.
 
Re: RPI Engineers 2016-2017: 10 Years on

The part that is disappointing is that maybe if the school (and area) would support the female hockey program with attendance, they wouldn't have to be asking for money. The men's program aren't asking. RPI female hockey last year finished 2nd last in attendance. Not sure about this year but could be even worse. There were many teams that finished below them in terms of their wins and losses, but yet drew many more fans. Its like anything. If you support the program, it will flourish. More top end female hockey players will want to play at RPI if they know they are treated right and if they know they actually have a large fan base. It must be pretty upsetting for those players to play in a totally empty rink for every home game. I've started to follow the men's and woman's programs this year at RPI and one thing that I've noticed compared to other schools is how at RPI, the hockey as far as media attention, as far as fan base, basically in every aspect is focused on the men. Other schools, and pretty successful hockey programs, give the women's program much more attention. Just my 2 cents worth. Hopefully both teams at RPI next year improve drastically and both teams get the support and attention they deserve.

I don't think getting more media attention is a big factor for getting better women recruits. It is nice to see once there.

Like most sports, winning comes first, fans follow. Yes, it does help to have a base, though not upsetting to have a mostly rink.
 
Re: RPI Engineers 2016-2017: 10 Years on

I agree with your comment, but let me reiterate my earlier comment. There are quite a few teams with a lot worse records than RPI that draw a considerable amount more fans to their home games. So why do their fans go watch a losing program. You have to start somewhere.
 
Re: RPI Engineers 2016-2017: 10 Years on

IIRC, this year men's season ticket holders received free admission to all of the home women's games with their season tickets.
 
Re: RPI Engineers 2016-2017: 10 Years on

With the records of the men's and women's coaches being so very similar wouldn't it be hard to justify not firing the women's coach now that they've fired the men's coach for his poor record/performance as a coach?

RPI is still a business with a budget and needs to allocate money wisely (a little hard to say that last part with a straight face given Dr. Jackson's salary, but that's beyond the point). We are, as of 1 October, going to be effectively paying for three D-I coaches: Burke, Appert, and whomever the men hire. This is also to include any contracts the assistants may have, should the incoming coach wish to recommend termination of those contracts. Although I haven't seen any of the federal financial submissions (and not sure if we will be able to, given RPI isn't publicly owned), I would venture a guess that the costs of paying four coaches and potentially eight assistants would heavily outweigh any positive benefits to the Institute.

Obviously, part of RPI's funding is through generous alumni donations. It's entirely possible that alumni could donate towards the buyout, which is a little tough to do if the termination doesn't happen, because if they decide to keep the coach: Where does the money go if it's been specifically allocated? It's much easier with Appert since he's been terminated, but what about Burke? He's still employed.
 
Re: RPI Engineers 2016-2017: 10 Years on

The part that is disappointing is that maybe if the school (and area) would support the female hockey program with attendance, they wouldn't have to be asking for money. The men's program aren't asking. RPI female hockey last year finished 2nd last in attendance. Not sure about this year but could be even worse. There were many teams that finished below them in terms of their wins and losses, but yet drew many more fans. Its like anything. If you support the program, it will flourish. More top end female hockey players will want to play at RPI if they know they are treated right and if they know they actually have a large fan base. It must be pretty upsetting for those players to play in a totally empty rink for every home game. I've started to follow the men's and woman's programs this year at RPI and one thing that I've noticed compared to other schools is how at RPI, the hockey as far as media attention, as far as fan base, basically in every aspect is focused on the men. Other schools, and pretty successful hockey programs, give the women's program much more attention. Just my 2 cents worth. Hopefully both teams at RPI next year improve drastically and both teams get the support and attention they deserve.

There are certainly a lot of factors to take into account:

First, and it's unfortunate, is that a number of people just don't want to follow women's sports. I know, insert "bigot" comments here, despite me being one of only two posters to start RPI score threads for a women's game. I remember when we were playing the ECAC semis at Cornell, the game was actually free (or at least I didn't see an admission taker, which was odd for the playoffs, especially considering they had admission in the previous year), and although they had a bigger crowd, Lynah was maybe a quarter full, if that. And I don't think anyone can deny community support when it comes to at least men's ice hockey. I'm not sure how much winning helps, at least based from that angle.

Secondly, let's also consider family outings. For a men's game, it costs $31 for an alumni couple and a youth to attend, and then concessions on top of that (we know that's where they really make their money, $3-$4 for a pop is a bit up there). Back in my days with the band, women's games were free admission to all. With the Institute's hostile takeover of athletics from the Student Union, coupled with my previous comments about being a business, I can understand their want to gain money through admission, even though all we get out of it is deafness (the only thing that's changed since my days is that they started using the goal horn). Some families, especially if you're in the community and have a tight budget, don't have the financial or time commitments to attend games, the latter being the reason I haven't really followed them lately. I know they've tried to offset costs by giving away women's games with a season pass, why not extend that (or a severe discount) when you buy either a football or men's hockey ticket for when both (or all three) teams are playing on the same day/weekend, and have some sort of a finance sharing from it? It's much easier for a family to have an "RPI day", heck one night before FlagDUDETTE, our nephew, and I took in a hockey game, we also saw a soccer game up the hill. Some clever scheduling (assuming compliance with the leagues, of course) could really drive sales, assuming games are now at ECAV instead of the Armory.

Thirdly, I'm glad you brought up media. WRPI only has one broadcast outlet, and women's games take a back seat because of the men's games. Not to mention their difficulty in fielding personnel lately, but that's another difficulty. Most of these arenas have broadband access, how difficult would it be, assuming you had the personnel, to setup even audio-only streams of games and have some people call the game? Heck, it seems almost everyone is doing some sort of commentary on Youtube, Twitch, or any of those; why not contact them and give them a trial to cover some games? I understand finances potentially come into play with that, not to mention brand image (use a delay just like radio stations if you have to), but if you want to get the word out, why not use our world to our advantage?
 
Re: RPI Engineers 2016-2017: 10 Years on

IIRC, this year men's season ticket holders received free admission to all of the home women's games with their season tickets.

Maine program seems to be at the same level of play. When RPI played Maine in September the two games were split. Overall records are similar. RPI = 10-24-2; with Maine's record being 10-21-1. I would guess RPI puts more money into their program than Maine does. The last I knew the head coach was being paid around $50K/year. The program generates no revenue as tickets are free. Alfond Arena is virtually empty with basically family and student friends in attendance. Just providing information.
 
Re: RPI Engineers 2016-2017: 10 Years on

There are certainly a lot of factors to take into account:


Thirdly, I'm glad you brought up media. WRPI only has one broadcast outlet, and women's games take a back seat because of the men's games. Not to mention their difficulty in fielding personnel lately, but that's another difficulty. Most of these arenas have broadband access, how difficult would it be, assuming you had the personnel, to setup even audio-only streams of games and have some people call the game? Heck, it seems almost everyone is doing some sort of commentary on Youtube, Twitch, or any of those; why not contact them and give them a trial to cover some games? I understand finances potentially come into play with that, not to mention brand image (use a delay just like radio stations if you have to), but if you want to get the word out, why not use our world to our advantage?

The RPI women's hockey team gets some of the best media coverage in the NCAA. I think that RPITV covered every one of their home games this year, or at least they covered every one that I tried to watch, and I try to watch almost all of them. Not only that, but the quality of the RPITV coverage is superior to most that I have seen in the ECAC (I try to watch RPI road games, even 'though all of the Ivy schools charge for their video feed, whereas RPITV is free). They also get pep band support (sometimes even for road games) to a greater extent than most teams. What I don't understand is the lack of student body support. The team plays a very entertaining style of hockey, is competitive in almost every game, and is in the playoff hunt every year. In the early years of RPI's D1 period the team generated quite a bit of enthusiasm and some decent crowds (by women's hockey standards). However, perhaps after 10 years and only one appearance in a conference final game it is getting harder to maintain interest in the team.
 
Re: RPI Engineers 2016-2017: 10 Years on

The RPI women's hockey team gets some of the best media coverage in the NCAA. I think that RPITV covered every one of their home games this year, or at least they covered every one that I tried to watch, and I try to watch almost all of them. Not only that, but the quality of the RPITV coverage is superior to most that I have seen in the ECAC (I try to watch RPI road games, even 'though all of the Ivy schools charge for their video feed, whereas RPITV is free). They also get pep band support (sometimes even for road games) to a greater extent than most teams. What I don't understand is the lack of student body support. The team plays a very entertaining style of hockey, is competitive in almost every game, and is in the playoff hunt every year. In the early years of RPI's D1 period the team generated quite a bit of enthusiasm and some decent crowds (by women's hockey standards). However, perhaps after 10 years and only one appearance in a conference final game it is getting harder to maintain interest in the team.

I'm not so sure it's that, compared to a change in the culture of the student. The early years of RPI being D-I was around when I was there (my freshman year the women were still D-III), and it was a VERY different culture. This was when the Red Army started, the band was INCREDIBLY active even to the point of rudimentary bands during breaks, and there was a lot of excitement in general, even though the team missed the playoffs in my senior year (but the next two years were incredible). Heck, a lot of the active posters here were around that time. Does the Red Army even have events at women's games these days? The band heavily weighs women's games and football for road trip allowance (at least when I was a member) so you know they're there.
 
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