It does when you claim non-extra year players "are entering" the portal (present tense) but can't support it since every player we know about at this time is an extra-year player. Your only support is historical data (with little to no allowance for how circumstances may be different) so that does change the argument. I'm sorry if that's a difficult concept for you.
USCHO Fan Forum
-
The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
RPI 2022 Off-season: Surely, We Deserve Better
- Thread starter Ralph Baer
- Start date
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
In the words head coach Herm Edward's You are what your record says you are and our current group is.349 so we can voice all the opinions we want the data is the data I'm sure all the engineers out there can agree on that. I'll pre apologize for any verb misuse !
By my calculation Coach Smith's winning percentage at RPI is .377, which is barely below the .384 that got Seth an extension after 4 years - and Seth didn't have to deal with the pandemic chaos that has impacted college sports and the RPI community over the last two years. I don't apologize for thinking Smith has earned a similar opportunity.
By my calculation Coach Smith's winning percentage at RPI is .377, which is barely below the .384 that got Seth an extension after 4 years - and Seth didn't have to deal with the pandemic chaos that has impacted college sports and the RPI community over the last two years. I don't apologize for thinking Smith has earned a similar opportunity.
Head Coaches | RPI Hockey (sports-chronicles.com) This has him at .350, Google has him at .349 You must be miscalculating the verb tense.
I that RPI after Appert's firing in 2017 had a program in a similar state as Clarkson following George Roll in 2011. In my opinion, RPI was in a tougher rebuild situation, but in general, similar enough.
Casey Jones first 4 seasons at Clarkson
16-17-6 - First Round ECAC
9-20-7 - First Round ECAC
21-17-4 - Quarterfinals ECAC
12-20-5 - First Round ECAC
Dave Smith first 4 seasons at RPI
6-27-4 - First Round ECAC
10-23-3 - First Round ECAC
17-15-2 - Quarterfinals ECAC (cancelled)
18-23-3 - Quarterfinals ECAC
I don't think anyone would say Casey Jones has been bad at Clarkson. With exception to year 1 (and I think we can all agree that year 1 under a new coach is irrelevant), practically identical first 4 years, and Smith faced a harder rebuild and an RPI administration actively harming the program's progress between the cancelled season and no fans. Despite having departures of core players due to that, we still were one game away from Lake Placid. I think RPI can get to the same place as Clarkson if you give DS more time. Rebuilding a program takes time
Casey Jones first 4 seasons at Clarkson
16-17-6 - First Round ECAC
9-20-7 - First Round ECAC
21-17-4 - Quarterfinals ECAC
12-20-5 - First Round ECAC
Dave Smith first 4 seasons at RPI
6-27-4 - First Round ECAC
10-23-3 - First Round ECAC
17-15-2 - Quarterfinals ECAC (cancelled)
18-23-3 - Quarterfinals ECAC
I don't think anyone would say Casey Jones has been bad at Clarkson. With exception to year 1 (and I think we can all agree that year 1 under a new coach is irrelevant), practically identical first 4 years, and Smith faced a harder rebuild and an RPI administration actively harming the program's progress between the cancelled season and no fans. Despite having departures of core players due to that, we still were one game away from Lake Placid. I think RPI can get to the same place as Clarkson if you give DS more time. Rebuilding a program takes time
BTW, I want to complement the Talkin' Neers team on their insights. One of the guys (sorry Sezenack, you guys all sound alike to me) pointed out the great playoffs for Kjellberg. I agree. He was dominant at times on the ice controlling play. He, like virtually all defensemen with offensive skills, sometimes frustrates me with his defensive play but he gave a very strong effort right to the end. That includes the "breakaway" by Corinoto (sp?) with an empty net in the last game. That was a brilliant defensive play and, despite the complaints from Harvard, it was absolutely not a penalty. I reviewed it several times. With everyone pressing forward Corinoto poked the puck out of his end by Kjellberg and took off after it, but Simon was by his side stride for stride. They came together inside the RPI blue line. In soccer it would have been called a shoulder to shoulder challenge as two guys with equal rights to the puck came together side by side and, surprise, surprise, the bigger guy won. The good Dr. must have loved it as it exhibited his favorite physics principles. It was absolutely legal and a play, in terms of skating and body control, that few college defensemen could make. If he comes back next season I can see Kjellberg giving us a Will Reilly-like senior season.
That was me who pointed out Kjellberg's play in the playoffs. He totally elevated his game, and I hope he sticks around for his senior year
Head Coaches | RPI Hockey (sports-chronicles.com) This has him at .350, Google has him at .349 You must be miscalculating the verb tense.
That record pretty clearly isn't including 2021-22
I that RPI after Appert's firing in 2017 had a program in a similar state as Clarkson following George Roll in 2011. In my opinion, RPI was in a tougher rebuild situation, but in general, similar enough.
Casey Jones first 4 seasons at Clarkson
16-17-6 - First Round ECAC
9-20-7 - First Round ECAC
21-17-4 - Quarterfinals ECAC
12-20-5 - First Round ECAC
Dave Smith first 4 seasons at RPI
6-27-4 - First Round ECAC
10-23-3 - First Round ECAC
17-15-2 - Quarterfinals ECAC (cancelled)
18-23-3 - Quarterfinals ECAC
I don't think anyone would say Casey Jones has been bad at Clarkson. With exception to year 1 (and I think we can all agree that year 1 under a new coach is irrelevant), practically identical first 4 years, and Smith faced a harder rebuild and an RPI administration actively harming the program's progress between the cancelled season and no fans. Despite having departures of core players due to that, we still were one game away from Lake Placid. I think RPI can get to the same place as Clarkson if you give DS more time. Rebuilding a program takes time
If you cheered on Burgess, Will Reilly they were all Seth guys. In no way was the George Roll situation similar. Zero. You are aware that Seth is a Pro Coach and was entrusted with USAs top talent at USA hockey. You are aware he took this program to NCAAs. Don't tear another guy down to make your case.
Head Coaches | RPI Hockey (sports-chronicles.com) This has him at .350, Google has him at .349 You must be miscalculating the verb tense.
Actually, it shows you do have major problems with verb tense. The record and winning percentage (.350) on the RPI hockey page you cited is what Smith HAD entering the 21-22 season. The winning percentage I cited (.377) is for the record he HAS now.
By my calculation Coach Smith's winning percentage at RPI is .377, which is barely below the .384 that got Seth an extension after 4 years - and Seth didn't have to deal with the pandemic chaos that has impacted college sports and the RPI community over the last two years. I don't apologize for thinking Smith has earned a similar opportunity.
So that's a reason to extend him....Your kidding right ?
BTW, I want to complement the Talkin' Neers team on their insights. One of the guys (sorry Sezenack, you guys all sound alike to me) pointed out the great playoffs for Kjellberg. I agree. He was dominant at times on the ice controlling play. He, like virtually all defensemen with offensive skills, sometimes frustrates me with his defensive play but he gave a very strong effort right to the end. That includes the "breakaway" by Corinoto (sp?) with an empty net in the last game. That was a brilliant defensive play and, despite the complaints from Harvard, it was absolutely not a penalty. I reviewed it several times. With everyone pressing forward Corinoto poked the puck out of his end by Kjellberg and took off after it, but Simon was by his side stride for stride. They came together inside the RPI blue line. In soccer it would have been called a shoulder to shoulder challenge as two guys with equal rights to the puck came together side by side and, surprise, surprise, the bigger guy won. The good Dr. must have loved it as it exhibited his favorite physics principles. It was absolutely legal and a play, in terms of skating and body control, that few college defensemen could make. If he comes back next season I can see Kjellberg giving us a Will Reilly-like senior season.
I agree. He played the puck and won. Hope Harvard wins tonight so ECAC gets 2 spots next week. RPI played very well against the best team. DS does great on Talkin' Neers.
Actually, it shows you do have major problems with verb tense. The record and winning percentage (.350) on the RPI hockey page you cited is what Smith HAD entering the 21-22 season. The winning percentage I cited (.377) is for the record he HAS now.
You're going to have to show me your work like the nuns use to make us do? Please use new math not common core.
By my calculation Coach Smith's winning percentage at RPI is .377, which is barely below the .384 that got Seth an extension after 4 years - and Seth didn't have to deal with the pandemic chaos that has impacted college sports and the RPI community over the last two years. I don't apologize for thinking Smith has earned a similar opportunity.
So that's a reason to extend him....Your kidding right ?
By itself, no. Seth's last team was arguably one of the most dysfunctional I've seen in nearly 50 years of watching RPI hockey. Smith has turned that into an essentially .500 program in his 3rd and 4th years despite the tremendous hurdles thrown in his way. Given that, and his overall record is still virtually identical to Seth's, I think he's earned an extension for at least a few years (I'd do 3) to see if he can take the next step forward.
In the words head coach Herm Edward's You are what your record says you are and our current group is.349 so we can voice all the opinions we want the data is the data I'm sure all the engineers out there can agree on that. I'll pre apologize for any verb misuse !
Herm Edwards all time quote was "you play to win the game". As a long ago defensive player, Edwards is also well known for having "THE FUMBLE" bounce right up into his hands and returning it to the house as the clock expired for what became known as the "Miracle At the Meadowlands". For those too young, there is always You Tube.
It was Bill Parcells who said "you are your record".
DavidNardolillo
Well-known member
I would take exception to some of this... certainly the W-L is not where anyone wants it. But Smith endured not only a cancelled season (like many) but he lost his top AC thanks to Shirley laying off the coaching staff as well as losing a flat out star in Savory, as well as Babichuk, Jerry, etc. Then, this season he has to play his home games in an empty barn -- a penalty that no other athletic team in D1 endured.... at least that I'm aware of. What do you think that does for recruiting when the kids visit an empty arena for a "home" game? Smitty deserves kudos for keeping the rudder straight amidst the SAJ created strife -- and we haven't even discussed her $20mil pledge for renovations when Smitty was hired that by all appearances was a complete fabrication.
Spot on, WS.
By my calculation Coach Smith's winning percentage at RPI is .377, which is barely below the .384 that got Seth an extension after 4 years - and Seth didn't have to deal with the pandemic chaos that has impacted college sports and the RPI community over the last two years. I don't apologize for thinking Smith has earned a similar opportunity.
So that's a reason to extend him....Your kidding right ?
Apples and oranges. SA played a much tougher schedule. Dave plays a lot of cup cake games in out of conference games. SA still had a better record.
DavidNardolillo
Well-known member
Troy York (Mid season departure), Emil Ohrvall (went to MIchigan), Evan Tironese (retired from College Hockey) in the RPI Serv List his dad did not have kind things to say about DS, Brady Ferner (UND), Lou Nanne (retired from Hockey), Owen Savory (UMass Lowell), Billy Jerry (LIU and his brother played for DS at Canisius), Corey Babichuk (Vermont). If you said to me "Aspydad, who retires from College Hockey?!", not many but we had two players to do it. Is it not the job of the head coach to instill a culture where players would want to stay? Even those who have a fifth year?? I have no beef with Dave, none. My question goes to the title of this thread, "Surely, we deserve better", do we?
Seth Appert is a good guy, but his race at RPI had been run (averaged 20 losses a season over his 11 years and was almost 70 games under .500). And that last year was ugly; hard for many coaches to survive that one.
For the players that were at RPI before Dave Smith arrived, I think there was going to be turnover and hard times for a group of players that lost 68 games over the previous 3 seasons.
Troy York went to play Division III hockey at UW Superior--good player at that level, but clearly not a case of one that got away for a Division I team.
Emil Ohrvall proved himself to be ineffective everywhere else he went (Michigan, Sacred Heart)--after leaving RPI, he had 7 total points (3 goals) in his remaining collegiate career.
Nanne and Tironese could have transferred somewhere else for a final year of eligibility, but didn't--hard to see how that's an indictment of Coach Smith.
As for the crop of Smith-recruited players, Ferner is on the record that he would have stayed at RPI if the pandemic didn't happen ("If there was no pandemic, I'm for sure there (at RPI)") . That's not Coach Smith's fault. I'd bet a beer that Savory, Babichuk, Ashbrook, and Jerry would say the same thing if asked.
Linden, Leppainen, and Johnson (and perhaps others) certainly had transfer options after the cancelled season, but they stayed. If Coach Smith was a problem for them, I think they would have left last year.
Given what unfolded at RPI during the pandemic relative to other schools, I think it would be incredibly harsh not to provide Coach Smith with an extension of modest length.
DavidNardolillo
Well-known member
[/COLOR]
Red- Not sure either is really needed. Previously portrayals on this tread of the derelict condition of the facility appear to be the same that any facility would incur that was shuttered for around a year and a half without the proper precautions being taken. That would first and foremost include laying off the entire facility maintenance staff for a number of months. Just as obvious, it appears no one else kept the facility from reaching searing indoor temperatures in the hot months nor kept it warm enough in the cold months while also failing to drain the plumbing and replacing the water with that no freeze stuff every Tom, Dick and Harry with a seasonal camp uses every September. Best short term solution may very well be to just fix the damage and hope the next stewards of the institute come with at least a modicum of real world common sense that would prevent this from happening again.
As the kids say these days: Tell me you haven't been to Houston Field House in 10 years without saying "I haven't been to Houston Field House in 10 years."
Last edited:
DavidNardolillo
Well-known member
Will all be forgiven when she is gone, assuming that Schmidt does not act similarly?
Unfortunately, what was lost in all the criticism of Dr. Jackson is the fact that she ultimately reported to the RPI Board of Trustees, which is almost entirely comprised of RPI alumni. To the extent there is dissatisfaction with the level of investment in the hockey program, it didn't appear that a significant number of the board, let alone a majority, shared that view. More conversation about the status quo needs to be had at that level.
Might be time to try and (re)invigorate a booster club.
Seth Appert is a good guy, but his race at RPI had been run (averaged 20 losses a season over his 11 years and was almost 70 games under .500). And that last year was ugly; hard for many coaches to survive that one.
For the players that were at RPI before Dave Smith arrived, I think there was going to be turnover and hard times for a group of players that lost 68 games over the previous 3 seasons.
Troy York went to play Division III hockey at UW Superior--good player at that level, but clearly not a case of one that got away for a Division I team.
Emil Ohrvall proved himself to be ineffective everywhere else he went (Michigan, Sacred Heart)--after leaving RPI, he had 7 total points (3 goals) in his remaining collegiate career.
Nanne and Tironese could have transferred somewhere else for a final year of eligibility, but didn't--hard to see how that's an indictment of Coach Smith.
As for the crop of Smith-recruited players, Ferner is on the record that he would have stayed at RPI if the pandemic didn't happen ("If there was no pandemic, I'm for sure there (at RPI)") . That's not Coach Smith's fault. I'd bet a beer that Savory, Babichuk, Ashbrook, and Jerry would say the same thing if asked.
Linden, Leppainen, and Johnson (and perhaps others) certainly had transfer options after the cancelled season, but they stayed. If Coach Smith was a problem for them, I think they would have left last year.
Given what unfolded at RPI during the pandemic relative to other schools, I think it would be incredibly harsh not to provide Coach Smith with an extension of modest length.
David, I hope this finds you well. DS has had three of his seasons over 20 losses out of four: that's the hard truth. If you're going to bring up that regarding SA you must in all honesty bring it up for Dave. None of us are talking about the epic collapse that occurred at Harvard on Friday night. If that happened with Seth, some would have called for his head on this thread. He's a bad coach, this that. That was inexcusable. I think that lays at DS's feet somewhat. Kudos to the young men in Cherry and White for rebounding the next night. I don't want to adjudicate Seth because I have several times but I will if someone is going to compare him to George Roll and make the baseless claim that the cupboard was bare like someone did on this thread (See Wilson, Burgess, Reilly). With regard to Savory's departure, I will take the beer bet. In fairness to Dave, I think he has an admin and AD who could care less about hockey. As you know, Troyboy and I have screamed this from the rooftops for many moons. To be brutally honest, I don't trust Shirley or Lee to pick the Coach. Also, I found the flipping off of the camera at Harvard distasteful by DS. I don't want to sound Pollyannaish but there is an old military axiom, "Never let the troops see the Colonel crooked in the saddle." Not a great look. Let's hope the new prez can take the sad state of the program and elevate it. Thank you for your thoughtful response to me. I hope you take my response in the same vein. Best regards, JK
Last edited:
DavidNardolillo
Well-known member
Thank you for your thoughtful response to me. I hope you take my response in the same vein. Best regards, JK
Always do! Hope to see you and Troyboy soon. The first round is on me, regardless of the outcome of the wager!
- Status
- Not open for further replies.