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Rivalries - what make's it "the best around"?

Re: Rivalries - what make's it "the best around"?

Clarkson and St. Lawrence seems like an underrated rivalry. The schools are so close and they both hate it each other.

As a Clarkson alum, I'll obviously agree with this. I think one factor that makes Clarkson-SLU a big rivalry is that both schools view it as their rival. I don't think that Cornell-Harvard is a big rivalry because only Cornell thinks it is (Harvard thinks Yale is their rival). Minny fans that split their rivals among UND, Wisconsin, Michigan dilute a rivalry, IMO. If you have to argue who your rival is, I'd say you don't have a rivalry.

I would guess very few Clarkson or SLU alums or fans don't consider this the rivalry.
 
Re: Rivalries - what make's it "the best around"?

The stressed line enhances my point. Sparty cares about UMich in everything. UMich prob only cares about Sparty half the time, if that. It's tOSU for other things, as to a rivalry.
I hate aOSU. But their hockey team is typically crap, so who cares? Sparty is little brother. It's nice to see little brother achieve things (even if he is annoying as heck about it). It's also nice to put little brother in his place. Then again, maybe I don't appreciate the State vs. Michigan rivalry as much since I grew up in Maryland. I think I get it though since my parents are from Michigan and we have fans of both teams in the extended family.

As a Clarkson alum, I'll obviously agree with this. I think one factor that makes Clarkson-SLU a big rivalry is that both schools view it as their rival. I don't think that Cornell-Harvard is a big rivalry because only Cornell thinks it is (Harvard thinks Yale is their rival). Minny fans that split their rivals among UND, Wisconsin, Michigan dilute a rivalry, IMO. If you have to argue who your rival is, I'd say you don't have a rivalry.

I would guess very few Clarkson or SLU alums or fans don't consider this the rivalry.

I think having equal hatred on each side is key to a good rivalry. Everyone hates Michigan, everyone hates Minnesota. That doesn't mean that St. Cloud vs. Minnesota is a rivalry or that Western Michigan vs. Michigan is a rivalry. One sided hate does not a good rivalry make. I think having similarities between the schools/teams, decent parity in the games, and a whole lot of passion on both sides makes a great rivalry.

I also think it isn't a good rivalry if you have multiple rivals. The best hate is aimed at one specific team. If you can lose all your games but beat your rival and consider it a successful season, that's a good rivalry. If watching Urban Meyer be a sad panda helps you experience schandenfreude, it's a good rivalry.
 
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Re: Rivalries - what make's it "the best around"?

The stressed line enhances my point. Sparty cares about UMich in everything. UMich prob only cares about Sparty half the time, if that. It's tOSU for other things, as to a rivalry.

The U-M/OSU thing that most people associate with is the Bo/Woody football battles that epitomized two great programs and very little room for anything else (since in the early days, bowls weren't handed out like candy.) The rivalry is much greater than that, though. These programs- including bands and other extracurricular activities- have enjoyed putting it to one another for a much longer period of time. This one thing- time- and history-is a key factor in a rivalry.

Some of the best rivalries involve schools that can't tie their own shoes compared to other schools- as long as they do it better than their rival.

The MSU rivalry was born out of geographics, but more importantly, out of U-M's desire to not have another large in state rival join the B1G Ten and encroach on their turf. Sure, it has propagated onto the athletic arena, but the whole MAC/Lil Bro/cow college (which, by the way are all tiring now) thing came out of that beginning. Can you imagine if tOSU had another in state school, in their conference, same size etc? Can you imagine IF Notre Dame chose to join the B1G Ten with Indiana and Purdue? These are factors in rivalries- with revenue, market branding and other indicators all at stake.
 
Re: Rivalries - what make's it "the best around"?

So what is the source of the big rivalry between Union and SCSU that I keep reading about?
 
Re: Rivalries - what make's it "the best around"?

In thinking about what makes a rivalry really take off, all the things previously mentioned have their place, but nothing stokes the fires so much as the stakes. What is the magnitude of the games? While a pair like Michigan- MSU no doubt have a good thing going, too often the familiar statement "You can throw out the records when these two meet!" is used with many of these rivals and it all rings a little too hollow for my taste. That statement is used because one team or the other, or both, has a terrible record. How hot does the fire really burn when you're taking down the 9th place team in the CCHA? (Or any conference for that matter.) Something more has to be at stake and the proverbial "throwing out of records" should seldom be forcibly entered into a "great" rivalry.

In light of this, I propose an alternate solution: Why not a threesome?

In other words, the almighty triumvirate rivalry of Wisconsin, Minnesota and North Dakota. As they say north of the border, it's a real menage-a-threeway of hockey magnificence that never fails to get the juices flowing. (And often, a reasonable amount of blood.) It's been pointed out that multiple rivals water down the the quality, (here adding water necessitated Dane County Sheriffs on the ice...) but why is that? It's because in such instances we're talking about one team that is perrenially good, that several other not-so-good teams want to make their bones by beating. Not the case with these three.

Consider that in the last 40 NCAA tournaments these 3 teams have combined for 25 appearances in the final, and 16 Championships. (Btw-Wisconsin is 6-2 in the final, the other two are better at losing it. Just sayin'...) Taken as a whole, the stakes are invariably high when these teams meet. How many times have any one of these come in to face the other with a #1 ranking? (I actually don't know, but it's a big number. A large number. A very healthy number, I'm sure.) Top fives facing off? (again, quite substantially large quantity. Much more than say, Michigan and Denver's combined titles before the invention of acrylic paint in 1964.)

Then there is the parity. But it is parity at an extremely high level. UND has 7 titles to UW's 6 and UM's 5. The Gophers have a winning record all time against both UW and UND. UW has one more title then UM and a winning record all time against UND. All of it is commonly disputed, but you get the idea. In tallying up the years of hatred over a dozen or more games a year, it is difficult for me to imagine anything else coming close. If someone invented a 3 ended sheet of ice with three way hockey rules (similar to that 3 level chess deal on Star Trek Mr. Spock was always going on about) Wisconsin vs. Minnesota vs. North Dakota would be the greatest Hockey game ever played.
 
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Re: Rivalries - what make's it "the best around"?

In thinking about what makes a rivalry really take off, all the things previously mentioned have their place, but nothing stokes the fires so much as the stakes. What is the magnitude of the games? While a pair like Michigan- MSU no doubt have a good thing going, too often the familiar statement "You can throw out the records when these two meet!" is used with many of these rivals and it all rings a little too hollow for my taste. That statement is used because one team or the other, or both, has a terrible record. How hot does the fire really burn when you're taking down the 9th place team in the CCHA? (Or any conference for that matter.) Something more has to be at stake and the proverbial "throwing out of records" should seldom be forcibly entered into a "great" rivalry.

In light of this, I propose an alternate solution: Why not a threesome?

In other words, the almighty triumvirate rivalry of Wisconsin, Minnesota and North Dakota. As they say north of the border, it's a real menage-a-threeway of hockey magnificence that never fails to get the juices flowing. (And often, a reasonable amount of blood.) It's been pointed out that multiple rivals water down the the quality, (here adding water necessitated Dane County Sheriffs on the ice...) but why is that? It's because in such instances we're talking about one team that is perrenially good, that several other not-so-good teams want to make their bones by beating. Not the case with these three.

Consider that in the last 40 NCAA tournaments these 3 teams have combined for 25 appearances in the final, and 16 Championships. (Btw-Wisconsin is 6-2 in the final, the other two are better at losing it. Just sayin'...) Taken as a whole, the stakes are invariably high when these teams meet. How many times have any one of these come in to face the other with a #1 ranking? (I actually don't know, but it's a big number. A large number. A very healthy number, I'm sure.) Top fives facing off? (again, quite substantially large quantity. Much more than say, Michigan and Denver's combined titles before the invention of acrylic paint in 1964.)

Then there is the parity. But it is parity at an extremely high level. UND has 7 titles to UW's 6 and UM's 5. The Gophers have a winning record all time against both UW and UND. UW has one more title then UM and a winning record all time against UND. All of it is commonly disputed, but you get the idea. In tallying up the years of hatred over a dozen or more games a year, it is difficult for me to imagine anything else coming close. If someone invented a 3 ended sheet of ice with three way hockey rules (similar to that 3 level chess deal on Star Trek Mr. Spock was always going on about) Wisconsin vs. Minnesota vs. North Dakota would be the greatest Hockey game ever played.

Barrage a' trois?

Sounds great, but Goldie, with her clingy insecurities, will ruin it in the end, you know.

And another thing. Bucky with Goldie and Sue. . . Who's sharing and who's not here? I thought we had something.
 
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Re: Rivalries - what make's it "the best around"?

Harvard-Cornell is VERY one-sided. It was manufactured by Cornell fans in an attempt to replace BU as their primary rival after BU joined HE. Any Harvard fan, I would bet, would tell you the biggest rivalry is with Yale, even though there isn't much history between the two in hockey. That's one that transcends all sports.

With that said, I'd love to go see a Harvard-Cornell game at Lynah. The contempt Big Red fans have for Harvard is wildly entertaining.

As a Cornell fan I agree with this mostly.

The "manufactured to replace" is a little strong. Harvard was actually Cornell's first significant hockey rival, several years before the big rivalry with BU began. The Laing Kennedy win against Harvard in 1962 is often considered the arrival of Cornell as a meaningful hockey program (just a coupla years removed from being outscored 31-0 by the Crimson in a pair of 1959 games).

It is more accurate to say that when BU left our second-best rival simply moved back up to #1. This was of course only from Cornell's POV. AFAIK Harvard has always considered Yale to be far and away its most important rival.

During the relatively brief period in the late 60's and early 70's when Cornell and BU annually duked it out for national primacy that was one of the best rivalries in college hockey history, considering the mutually loathing and the stakes. Since then we haven't really been part of a truly transcendent rivalry. We are more the ECAC's Minnesota, Michigan or BC: the team with the obnoxious fans that everybody else in the conference derives special Christmas joy in beating. ;)

The best rivalry in the ECAC is far and away Clarkson-SLU.
 
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Re: Rivalries - what make's it "the best around"?

If only it was possible to find a dead seawolf since they don't even exist....or for Anchorage it would be mighty hard to get a dead polar bear in to the arena let alone throw it on the ice.
Well, with that attitude....
Not easy, but if you get the theater and physics people together, I 'm sure you could get one in the building and on the ice. Sioux fans have been waiting for just that if NDSU ever gets a D1 hockey program. Buffalos. What a proud moment that would be.
There is a bison ranch south of the airport for just that reason...:D
UND fans refuse to recognize NDSU, and vice versa. It's like your UMich/MSU rivalry. I don't think either fanbase would be proud for their rival school winning a title.
Not entirely true. For the most part, people who grew up not in Fargo/Grand Forks will cheer for whichever school they attend/attended first, then the other in the post season as a state pride thing. Those of us that are from out of state or grew up in GFK/FAR are the ones that wish failure on the other. Except Sioux hockey. Everybody loves Sioux hockey.
 
Re: Rivalries - what make's it "the best around"?

Well, with that attitude....

There is a bison ranch south of the airport for just that reason...:D

Not entirely true. For the most part, people who grew up not in Fargo/Grand Forks will cheer for whichever school they attend/attended first, then the other in the post season as a state pride thing. Those of us that are from out of state or grew up in GFK/FAR are the ones that wish failure on the other. Except Sioux hockey. Everybody loves Sioux hockey.

Gotta hand it to you, for awhile there I thought this post was serious.
 
Re: Rivalries - what make's it "the best around"?

Not entirely true. For the most part, people who grew up not in Fargo/Grand Forks will cheer for whichever school they attend/attended first, then the other in the post season as a state pride thing. Those of us that are from out of state or grew up in GFK/FAR are the ones that wish failure on the other. Except Sioux hockey. Everybody loves Sioux hockey.

Screw that. One of my biggest regrets in life is not swerving my car to hit Craig Bohl when I saw him walking down the sidewalk one day.
 
Re: Rivalries - what make's it "the best around"?

Barrage a' trois?

Sounds great, but Goldie, with her clingy insecurities, will ruin it in the end, you know.

And another thing. Bucky with Goldie and Sue. . . Who's sharing and who's not here? I thought we had something.


I don't know how it would play out, burd. Perhaps early on, Bucky and Sue would attempt some sort of uneasy alliance based on double teaming Goldy...

But, I imagine that would quickly dissolve in a dispute over who gets to check her from behind.
 
Re: Rivalries - what make's it "the best around"?

Incorrect. I recognize NDSU people as I was taught it's rude not to recognize the person who delivers your pizza/tv/furniture.

This!!! I completely agree, they might spit in your food...
 
Re: Rivalries - what make's it "the best around"?

As a Clarkson alum, I'll obviously agree with this. I think one factor that makes Clarkson-SLU a big rivalry is that both schools view it as their rival. I don't think that Cornell-Harvard is a big rivalry because only Cornell thinks it is (Harvard thinks Yale is their rival). Minny fans that split their rivals among UND, Wisconsin, Michigan dilute a rivalry, IMO. If you have to argue who your rival is, I'd say you don't have a rivalry.


Talk to sparty football fans about this. I know this is a hockey forum and most Michigan fans consider sparty Michigan's chief rival because they were good before 2008, but the majority of people are football fans. As you know football brings in serious cash and money rules the world therefore ohio state is the common largest rival. sparty thinks that they are Michigan's biggest rival for everything. Outside of hockey fans they are not.
 
Re: Rivalries - what make's it "the best around"?

I would agree on that Colby Vs Bowdoin rivalry, but you have to be from new england to know about it. People don't realize how good Colby used to be btw.

I also agree that history has a big part of it. I'd say when the other team's goalie skates the length of the rink and back flipping the fans off, that's a good rivalry too. Some things fans remember, even years later.

The UAA vs Alaska rivalry is not to be underestimated.

That's nothing...

He tried to do it in a non-obvious way to what, less than 10,000 people? What about Marcus Hall doing it so everyone would notice in a stadium with over 110,000 people?

http://network.yardbarker.com/colle...91678?story_article_yb_original_head_15191678
 
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