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Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

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Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

Saw an interesting rapper jacket at the health club today. Rather simple.

Love is for the rich

Interesting statement. Loaded with much 'be careful' but perhaps even more truths.
 
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

Nice being part of a church where Leviticus 18:22 isn't "The Verse."

Because growing up, I could have sworn John 3:16 was "The Verse."
 
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

Listened to the 9 Lessons and Carols from King's Chapel in England this morning. I have done that every yr for >20 yrs. What a beautiful service
 
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

I've thought long and hard about this. The Vikes are out with a whimper; the S'awks may very well not make the tourney for the second straight year; and Trump is still a free man.

Either there is no god, or it is the god of Jonathan Edwards, not 5mn.
 
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

I've thought long and hard about this. The Vikes are out with a whimper; the S'awks may very well not make the tourney for the second straight year; and Trump is still a free man.

Either there is no god, or it is the god of Jonathan Edwards, not 5mn.

Taking this seriously. Some just assume God should give people stuff and result in universally great outcomes. Problem is that that doesn't shape anyone into being a better person, help them to develop skills, or contribute to making society better. And as God is love...he wants fulfillment of a better society by positive loving individuals. God sets the north star as love and the Gospels as how to get there. And although religion has been used for bad self-serving purposes (which is natural for many), the Word has motivated many to accomplish a tremendous amount of good over the centuries in terms of a compassionate positive helpful society - slavery, child labor, welfare, self governance, health care, etc. Many are alive and are living better as a result.

Having said that, the Vikings got a raw deal.
 
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

5mn_major said:
Some just assume God should give people stuff and result in universally great outcomes. Problem is that that doesn't shape anyone into being a better person, help them to develop skills, or contribute to making society better.

This thinking always annoyed me, too. Which is why I like how it was played for laughs in Janis Joplin's "Mercedes Benz".

The question is, did the people who did those good things do them out of a sincere belief in their principles, or did they do it out of fear of an eternity spent in "Hell"?

For a lot of people, religion is like self-help. Then, when they accomplish something themselves or as a team, they attribute it to a deity's intervention. Why not give the credit where it's due?
 
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

Looks like they had an Epiphany

@lauriegnyt: BIG SCHISM AHEAD: On Jan. 6, the Ukrainian Orthodox church is set to break away from the Russian Orthodox church, taking about one-third of the parishes that now answer to Moscow. Larger conflict looms over church property and power. via @nytimes https://nyti.ms/2RtXF32
 
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

Looks like they had an Epiphany

@lauriegnyt: BIG SCHISM AHEAD: On Jan. 6, the Ukrainian Orthodox church is set to break away from the Russian Orthodox church, taking about one-third of the parishes that now answer to Moscow. Larger conflict looms over church property and power. via @nytimes https://nyti.ms/2RtXF32

"And tonight we're gonna party like it's 1595."
 
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

This thinking always annoyed me, too. Which is why I like how it was played for laughs in Janis Joplin's "Mercedes Benz".

The question is, did the people who did those good things do them out of a sincere belief in their principles, or did they do it out of fear of an eternity spent in "Hell"?

For a lot of people, religion is like self-help. Then, when they accomplish something themselves or as a team, they attribute it to a deity's intervention. Why not give the credit where it's due?

Good questions. Its totally speculation. While I've heard a bit of the talk of the dangers of hell from a small minority...I haven't heard of that rhetoric from a single person doing any sort of serious volunteerism or charity in my adult life. Although its never been my kind of thing, the only time I ever hear about hell is when people refer to their own issues rather than working with others. That might be due to the fact that hell is tied to sin...and that is a different negative and individual frame with different implications than the positive, social 'do good for others' frame.

Indeed, if you look at the behavior of the great influencers in the past (i.e., Will Wilberforce) its hard to imagine this passionate type of behavior of speaking from the heart came from a fear of being ****ed to any hell. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Wilberforce
 
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Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

I was not referring to Gibbon's thesis, and to be candid I was just throwing some shade to the Death Cult to be a jerk, so, sorry.

Might want to talk to someone about this.

However, there are still plenty of folks who note the importation of an Eastern mystery cult into the heart of a western culture was part of the destruction of Roman identity and confidence. Christianity was certainly to blame for Rome's turning its back on science and reason.

Of course, that's not true either.

In addition to ridding Rome of much of its early brutality and godlike dictators, their monasteries were local intellectual centers on nearly every front imaginable and shepherds of ancient thought that would spur the renaissance.
 
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

Might want to talk to someone about this.

You're right about that. No point in having the superseded tech live on in my head.

<img src="https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8814/17133125587_19ea3c6297_o.jpg" height="200">

In addition to ridding Rome of much of its early brutality and godlike dictators, their monasteries were local intellectual centers on nearly every front imaginable and shepherds of ancient thought that would spur the renaissance.

After having destroyed a millenium's worth of learning, closed the academies, and taken 4 centuries off to pick their nose in the ruins of the Forum.

Reason is the enemy of faith. I didn't say that. The Patristic fathers did. And their head-in-their-orifice insistence on denying reality when it conflicts with their myths has persisted down through the ages.

"Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but more frequently than not struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God." -- Martin Luther

We finally broke that spell with the Enlightenment. You can stay in your cave, but don't try to peddle that nonsense out here in the sunlight. The figures you cower before are merely your own shadows.
 
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Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

After having destroyed a millenium's worth of learning, closed the academies, and taken 4 centuries off to pick their nose in the ruins of the Forum.

For a skeptic who thinks he has a monopoly on science...why are facts so hard? From wiki:

Intellectualism: Monasteries were important contributors to the surrounding community. They were centers of intellectual progression and education. They welcomed aspiring priests to come study and learn, allowing them even to challenge doctrine in dialogue with superiors.

Hospitals: Medieval hospitals in Europe followed a similar pattern to the Byzantine. They were religious communities, with care provided by monks and nuns.

Literacy: During the Early Middle Ages, the monasteries of the Roman Catholic Church were the centers of education and literacy, preserving the Church's selection from Latin learning and maintaining the art of writing.

The University: The university is generally regarded as a formal institution that has its origin in the Medieval Christian setting.[5][6] Prior to the establishment of universities, European higher education took place for hundreds of years in Christian cathedral schools or monastic schools (scholae monasticae), in which monks and nuns taught classes. Evidence of these immediate forerunners of the later university at many places dates back to the 6th century AD.[

Preserving Wisdom: Greek Christian scribes played a crucial role in the preservation of Aristotle by copying all the extant Greek language manuscripts of the corpus. The first Greek Christians to comment extensively on Aristotle were Philoponus, Elias, and David in the sixth century, and Stephen of Alexandria in the early seventh century.
 
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

You're right about that. No point in having the superseded tech live on in my head.

<img src="https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8814/17133125587_19ea3c6297_o.jpg" height="200">

Seriously man. Christianity is not your enemy. It plays the role of helping many both in giving them strength and offering charity to millions in order to save and improve lives of those less fortunate.
 
Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

Seriously man. Christianity is not your enemy. It plays the role of helping many both in giving them strength and offering charity to millions in order to save and improve lives of those less fortunate.

Seriously man. When the Death Cult does good things that's good. When it does bad things that's bad. In other words, it is the same as every other human invention. It's a tool to be used but which can never be permitted to use us.

As long as you can see that, we're all good. And even if not, then I don't mind your delusions if you don't harm anyone else with them. When you start telling people they have to wear your shoes because[COLOR="#13579ac"] {MAGIC} [/COLOR]then we are going to have a problem.
 
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