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Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

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Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

Off current topic but on thread topic- I have gone to 3 different church denominations this summer. So interesting that all, even although they are not connected, are focusing on the same way of looking at the lectionary readings or approaching things. It is like someone has a master list for how to interpret things. All of them are now focusing on inviting thru action rather than being welcoming. All of them are telling me to use God as the focus (like a bullseye) rather than me as a focus. All are preaching the focus of outreach rather than being insular (not in political terms but inviting people in).

It is like they have all gone to the same seminar on what to talk about. It isn't even like they all agree on some of the same tenets. Must be some new research that the upper echelons are reading.

The Unitarian in me is still fascinated by the sociology of faith
 
Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

5mn_Major said:
Some feel that you can't believe in God if you don't believe in the devil in hard form. I tend towards disagreeing. That's because one or the other (God/devil) could be less concrete; Indeed, God Him/Herself doesn't seem to be physically substantive. But when some try to make the devil too substantive, I believe Christians get themselves or faith into trouble.

When some in faith project the devil on situations, they do so because see a right and wrong aspect to an outcome. Often there is in fact from every human moral aspect known...a right and wrong side to that outcome. However, sometimes its not that clear...as in its opinion...and so the projection of the devil results in at best a 'greater than thou' attitude and at worst it causes the person to be totally ostrasized. Hence even if its not a hard concept, the devil has played its role of discrediting the Word just by its mere existence.
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It's been said that the most insidious thing the Devil has ever done is to trick people into believing that He does not exist.

I'm not quite sure I'd go that far; evil seems to be a uniquely human trait.

I do like the quote that goes something like "The only thing necessary for the triumph of Evil is that good people merely watch and do nothing about it."
 
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leswp1 said:
Off current topic but on thread topic- I have gone to 3 different church denominations this summer. So interesting that all, even although they are not connected, are focusing on the same way of looking at the lectionary readings or approaching things. It is like someone has a master list for how to interpret things. All of them are now focusing on inviting thru action rather than being welcoming. All of them are telling me to use God as the focus (like a bullseye) rather than me as a focus. All are preaching the focus of outreach rather than being insular (not in political terms but inviting people in).

It is like they have all gone to the same seminar on what to talk about. It isn't even like they all agree on some of the same tenets. Must be some new research that the upper echelons are reading.

The Unitarian in me is still fascinated by the sociology of faith
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Les - try an Anglican Ordnariate.
 
Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

leswp1 said:
All are preaching the focus of outreach rather than being insular (not in political terms but inviting people in).
Click to expand...

It's just smart marketing at a time when a lot of megachurches have turned their worship services into Christian rock concerts about hope-y change-yness, in an obvious bid to appeal more to the young. Unless you had the misfortune of being born in Utah or the rural parts of the country, no one under the age of 40 wants to play dress up every Sunday morning at 8 AM, and listen to an old white guy babble on about the wicked gays and the evils of pre-martial sex.
 
Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
It's just smart marketing at a time when a lot of megachurches have turned their worship services into Christian rock concerts about hope-y change-yness, in an obvious bid to appeal more to the young. Unless you had the misfortune of being born in Utah or the rural parts of the country, no one under the age of 40 wants to play dress up every Sunday morning at 8 AM, and listen to an old white guy babble on about the wicked gays and the evils of pre-martial sex.
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3 dif pastors- 2 women, 1 younger guy. That must explain it.

My Synod doesn't babble about either of those to issues. They must be slackin'
 
Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

leswp1 said:
Off current topic but on thread topic- I have gone to 3 different church denominations this summer. So interesting that all, even although they are not connected, are focusing on the same way of looking at the lectionary readings or approaching things. It is like someone has a master list for how to interpret things. All of them are now focusing on inviting thru action rather than being welcoming. All of them are telling me to use God as the focus (like a bullseye) rather than me as a focus. All are preaching the focus of outreach rather than being insular (not in political terms but inviting people in).

It is like they have all gone to the same seminar on what to talk about. It isn't even like they all agree on some of the same tenets. Must be some new research that the upper echelons are reading.

The Unitarian in me is still fascinated by the sociology of faith
Click to expand...

Same phenomenon, different context: a few years ago everybody in hockey started talking about "the process." I don't remember where I first heard it, maybe a Mike Schafer press conference, but from the moment I first heard somebody use the term to the moment when it was omnipresent was seemingly instant. Certainly there was some selective perception, but even so I found it striking. I wondered whether some book came out, or a Scotty Bowman type started it, but it was just as you say -- as if they did a "Norman coordinate" and then everybody was uploaded with the patch.
 
Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

Kepler said:
Same phenomenon, different context: a few years ago everybody in hockey started talking about "the process." I don't remember where I first heard it, maybe a Mike Schafer press conference, but from the moment I first heard somebody use the term to the moment when it was omnipresent was seemingly instant. Certainly there was some selective perception, but even so I found it striking. I wondered whether some book came out, or a Scotty Bowman type started it, but it was just as you say -- as if they did a "Norman coordinate" and then everybody was uploaded with the patch.
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I think it started with the language used in one of the rule changes - and I forget which - where refs had to judge whether or not the player was in the process of doing A when B occurred, thus determining whether or not to call the penalty. People latched onto it, either to make a point with the league or to try explaining away things during their press briefings.
 
Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

5mn_Major said:
Some feel that you can't believe in God if you don't believe in the devil in hard form. I tend towards disagreeing.

That's because one or the other (God/devil) could be less concrete; Indeed, God Him/Herself doesn't seem to be physically substantive. But when some try to make the devil too substantive, I believe Christians get themselves or faith into trouble.

When some in faith project the devil on situations, they do so because see a right and wrong aspect to an outcome. Often there is in fact from every human moral aspect known...a right and wrong side to that outcome. However, sometimes its not that clear...as in its opinion...and so the projection of the devil results in at best a 'greater than thou' attitude and at worst it causes the person to be totally ostrasized. Hence even if its not a hard concept, the devil has played its role of discrediting the Word just by its mere existence.
Click to expand...

LynahFan said:
I'm shocked - *shocked* - that you would cherry-pick the good while ignoring the bad... :D
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Not sure how you could interpret that post as a wholly positive view of Christianity...except in an effort to position a Christian in a negative light.

In reality, belief in God is fundamental and is among the top two commandments. Belief in the devil is nowhere on any Biblical list.
 
Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

St. Clown said:
I think it started with the language used in one of the rule changes - and I forget which - where refs had to judge whether or not the player was in the process of doing A when B occurred, thus determining whether or not to call the penalty. People latched onto it, either to make a point with the league or to try explaining away things during their press briefings.
Click to expand...

Hmm. That could be but that's not the way in which I heard "the process" being used. That was, "you have to trust the process" (as in, buying in to the system), or "the player is working through the process" (as in, adapting to a faster league), or "it's important for everybody in the locker room to be on board with the process" (as in have the same mentality and team goals). It's used as classic empty coaching jargon, and it just went from zero to a hundred overnight.
 
Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

joecct said:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

However, what if the ETs also believe in (a) God(s)??
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Then we know it's a stage of development not limited to humans.

Among humans, whose brains were evolutionarily developed to handle ape problems, understanding of causality has developed through these stages: superstition (the tallest mountain overlooks the world, therefore that mountain orders the world) --> religion (That particular mountain is not important. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with "mountainness", and the Word was "ultimate mountainness" --> philosophy ("Mountainness" is not important. What we mean by "ultimateness" is the unmountainified force that orders the world --> science (Nothing deliberately order the world. The particles and forces that order the world do so according to their particular properties. Teleology is a false reification) --> whatever comes next, which we are as blind to as each of the earlier stages was to its successors.
 
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Kepler said:
Then we know it's a stage of development not limited to humans.

Among humans, whose brains were evolutionarily developed to handle ape problems, understanding of causality has developed through these stages: superstition (the tallest mountain overlooks the world, therefore that mountain orders the world) --> religion (That particular mountain is not important. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with "mountainness", and the Word was "ultimate mountainness" --> philosophy ("Mountainness" is not important. What we mean by "ultimateness" is the unmountainified force that orders the world --> science (Nothing deliberately order the world. The particles and forces that order the world do so according to their particular properties. Teleology is a false reification) --> whatever comes next, which we are as blind to as each of the earlier stages was to its successors.
Click to expand...

God should not be restricted to one intelligent race.
 
Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

joecct said:
God should not be restricted to one intelligent race.
Click to expand...

God comes from inside our heads, like justice or beauty. Other species may come up with God the way they might come up with any idea. Or they may not.

The odds are if ET develops in an environment with danger, and especially if it forms hierarchies of protection and power, then it will also come up with the idea of God. A pole implies a pole position.
 
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