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Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

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Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

Timothy A said:
All the experts were laughing at his campaign, they in fact said the same thing. He unconventionally destroyed one front runner after another and gave the Republican establishment the middle finger, supposedly alienating his constituents. He was way back in all the polls until the board starting turning his color. James Carville was totally SHOCKED. No one gave him a snowball's chance in Hell of winning.
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I did. Joe Scarborough did. Mika Brzezinski did. And there were others. Don't say no one thought he could win. Not true. Just because you bought into the majority of pundits does not mean that some of us knew that the polls were wrong and that people were lying when they were polled cause they didn't want to admit they were voting for Trump. The same thing happened in Minnesota with Jesse Venture. I knew it could happen. It did.

And you voted for him. Congratulations. You're even more responsible for what's happening now then the USCHO Centrist.
 
Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

ScoobyDoo said:
I did. Joe Scarborough did. Mika Brzezinski did. And there were others. Don't say no one thought he could win. Not true.
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Michael Moore famously not only thought he could win, he guaranteed it.

Nate Silver's 538 model gave it a 20% chance and he cautioned it might be higher because the purple states are not independent trials -- some have linking characteristics which means they tend to move together.

And OH, PA, WI and MI did.

2016 was a bizarre election because it featured two Roy Moores running against each other. In that situation, a Roy Moore wins.
 
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Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

burd said:
If God is as old as the universe, maybe he had grown a little infirm by that time and was missing things he might not have missed several billion years earlier. That might also explain why he felt it was time to get his son involved in the business.
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Here is a link to a fascinating (if a bit technical) article in a philosophical journal about how the discovery of alien life might affect philosophy.

https://aeon.co/essays/how-the-discovery-of-extraterrestrial-life-would-change-morality

Cliff notes version:
- discovery of alien life strengthens the argument that there is a Creator Deity
- discovery of alien life suggests that human beings aren't all that special to the Deity; maybe we really don't matter all that much to the Deity at all and that's why we have evil as well as good.

In a playful mood, sometimes I suggest that we are merely a trial version while the Deity is still perfecting His/Her/Its craft....and we really are on own. In that case, we might as well be nice to each other, makes life better all around.
 
Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

leswp1 said:
I was questioning Christian leaders not calling out someone who was behaving like an anti-Christ.
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I believe, if I am not mistaken, that there is a law on the books that says if religious leaders engage in political speech in their capacity as a religious leader, that they then forfeit their tax exemption. Either you can be a religious official and be tax-exempt, or you can be political and not tax-exempt, but it is against the law to be a religious official and overtly political. I'm not sure of the exact details and limits though, just broad outlines.
 
Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

FreshFish said:
Here is a link to a fascinating (if a bit technical) article in a philosophical journal about how the discovery of alien life might affect philosophy.

https://aeon.co/essays/how-the-discovery-of-extraterrestrial-life-would-change-morality

Cliff notes version:
- discovery of alien life strengthens the argument that there is a Creator Deity
- discovery of alien life suggests that human beings aren't all that special to the Deity; maybe we really don't matter all that much to the Deity at all and that's why we have evil as well as good.

In a playful mood, sometimes I suggest that we are merely a trial version while the Deity is still perfecting His/Her/Its craft....and we really are on own. In that case, we might as well be nice to each other, makes life better all around.
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Interesting site. I also recommend the 538 piece "Science Isn't Broken" which is a direct answer to the Aeon piece whose name you can probably figure out.
 
Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

leswp1 said:
How did you reconcile your Faith with voting for someone who was so against everything that is Christian?
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The answer I've heard: "render unto Caesar those things that are Caesar's, and render unto God those things that are God's."




Also, you overlook how the last administration took The Little Sisters of the Poor to court! It's hard to imagine how you can get more "against everything that is Christian" than that!


It's not like either party cared at all about values that matter to people of Faith.
 
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Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

FreshFish said:
The answer I've heard: "render unto Caesar those things that are Caesar's, and render unto God those things that are God's."
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That's not what that quote means.
 
Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

FreshFish said:
I believe, if I am not mistaken, that there is a law on the books that says if religious leaders engage in political speech in their capacity as a religious leader, that they then forfeit their tax exemption. Either you can be a religious official and be tax-exempt, or you can be political and not tax-exempt, but it is against the law to be a religious official and overtly political. I'm not sure of the exact details and limits though, just broad outlines.
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It may be but this is not the question I asked as they are speaking out now. THey are completely allowed to call out amoral behavior without saying who to vote for. Even if we were to leave out the US leaders the Pope, The Anglican Archbishop, the Coptics, the Orthodox Church all have come out and said stuff now

The Caesar comment- This isn't about governance but about reprehensible behaviour.
 
leswp1 said:
It may be but this is not the question I asked as they are speaking out now. THey are completely allowed to call out amoral behavior without saying who to vote for. Even if we were to leave out the US leaders the Pope, The Anglican Archbishop, the Coptics, the Orthodox Church all have come out and said stuff now

The Caesar comment- This isn't about governance but about reprehensible behaviour.
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From Christianity Today:

https://www.christianitytoday.com/c...y/roy-moore-doug-jones-alabama-editorial.html
 
Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

leswp1 said:
Timothy A said:
Kepler said:
Maybe I can ask this question of you and get a real answer. Totally not a sarcastic question-- How did you reconcile your Faith with voting for someone who was so against everything that is Christian? .
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Everyone is a sinner. Some sins are very public and some are private, but all sin is equal in God's eyes. God does forgive our sins with the caveat of repentance (of course the caveat to forgiveness is faith). Repentance means trying your level best to alter your behavior not do that sin again. Sometimes that is easy, sometimes that is very hard. If Trump is still doing the same things he did 40 years ago, is he repentant? Probably not, but we cannot judge a person's repentance from what we outwardly see. Repentance is an inward battle that sometimes the positive result is public. We should love and support each other with the battle against our public flaws and pray to help each other beat the private flaws. I think a perception that is all too common is that Christians are so pure and perfect and that ****es people off. Nothing can be further from the truth. A true Christian examines themselves, knows they are very flawed, and use's God's grace and forgives through Jesus Christ, repents and humbly serves others as a way of thanking God. So look at us as a flawed humans who is trying their best to not keep stumbling on those same rocks every day. Sometimes I succeed, sometimes I fail, but I'm never going to stop fighting it. Thanks for the question (that I'm not sure I totally answered) and the opportunity to express my Faith.
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Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

Timothy A said:
Everyone is a sinner. Some sins are very public and some are private, but all sin is equal in God's eyes. God does forgive our sins with the caveat of repentance (of course the caveat to forgiveness is faith). Repentance means trying your level best to alter your behavior not do that sin again. Sometimes that is easy, sometimes that is very hard. If Trump is still doing the same things he did 40 years ago, is he repentant? Probably not, but we cannot judge a person's repentance from what we outwardly see. Repentance is an inward battle that sometimes the positive result is public. We should love and support each other with the battle against our public flaws and pray to help each other beat the private flaws. I think a perception that is all too common is that Christians are so pure and perfect and that ****es people off. Nothing can be further from the truth. A true Christian examines themselves, knows they are very flawed, and use's God's grace and forgives through Jesus Christ, repents and humbly serves others as a way of thanking God. So look at us as a flawed humans who is trying their best to not keep stumbling on those same rocks every day. Sometimes I succeed, sometimes I fail, but I'm never going to stop fighting it. Thanks for the question (that I'm not sure I totally answered) and the opportunity to express my Faith.
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Thank you for the answer, I found it clear and I believe I understand you.

I read it as you saying you refuse to make any moral judgments on the candidate. May I ask then how you do choose a candidate? Do you consider the moral consequences of policy or is that also something where you defer to God?

A reservation: if you can never judge a candidate how do you know if they're honest and without an assumption of honesty how do you know you'll get the policy outcomes you are aiming for?

I have to say that while I'm not "convinced" by the argument I am sympathetic to it. I feel that politicians are chess pieces and we should move them (or sacrifice them) at will to achieve policy outcomes. I have little confidence we ever know a candidate -- we know only the facade and the marketing campaign. And if that is true then your process seems to me to be the most pragmatic one for even if we ought to judge we have no information to judge on. However that theoretical argument is a ship that hits the iceberg of Trump and sinks, because Trump is so very, very obviously a knowable moral hazard.
 
unofan said:
So stealing a candy bar is as bad as mass murder?

Sounds like a God worthy of devotion to me... :rolleyes:
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Venial Sin v Mortal Sin. One does not get you on the down elevator. An unconfessed Mortal Sin is an express elevator to Hell.

However, we all face the Individual (Particular) Judgment at the moment of death. There we stand naked before Christ and our life is laid bare. Those who are deemed worthy are advanced to Heaven/Purgatory. The truly evil are sent to Hell.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particular_judgment
 
Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

joecct said:
Venial Sin v Mortal Sin. One does not get you on the down elevator. An unconfessed Mortal Sin is an express elevator to Hell.

However, we all face the Individual (Particular) Judgment at the moment of death. There we stand naked before Christ and our life is laid bare. Those who are deemed worthy are advanced to Heaven/Purgatory. The truly evil are sent to Hell.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particular_judgment
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Psst, joe...



















"Judgment" is a metaphor. "Hell" and "Heaven" are what we make ourselves in this life. "The Afterlife" is the acknowledgement that our existence ceases forever in our death, so it isn't that we go on living after death, it's that for us time ends with our death therefore we are "immortal."
 
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Re: Religion Thread: ...and suddenly, everyone's a theology scholar

joecct said:
I believe in an afterlife. But there is that teeny tiny bit that says, "Oops!". For you, it's the other way.
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There is no "oops," joe. How often do you worry about not having made your sacrifices to Poseidon?

I know religious people actually think Pascal's Wager is prudent, but it so utterly misses the point, and so obviously, that maybe there simply are two different types of brains.
 
joecct said:
Venial Sin v Mortal Sin. One does not get you on the down elevator. An unconfessed Mortal Sin is an express elevator to Hell.

However, we all face the Individual (Particular) Judgment at the moment of death. There we stand naked before Christ and our life is laid bare. Those who are deemed worthy are advanced to Heaven/Purgatory. The truly evil are sent to Hell.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particular_judgment
Click to expand...

Timothy isn't Catholic.
 
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