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Regional Rankings - Part III

And the West sheet is up so Stevens Point is

0.375 - 0.531 - 0.778

Your RNK is wrong, as are all of them listed below.. The ****can sheet they post calculates RNK using the teams that were ranked last week and not this, and are thus utterly worthless. This lack of attention to detail is not surprising in the least.

Speaking of which, is St. Norbert still listed at 23-3-3 on ncaa.com? Someone at the Peoples Temple in Indy might want to check that.
 
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Re: Regional Rankings - Part III

Your RNK is wrong, as are all of them listed below.. The ****can sheet they post calculates RNK using the teams that were ranked last week and not this, and are thus utterly worthless. This lack of attention to detail is not surprising in the least.

Speaking of which, is St. Norbert still listed at 23-3-3 on ncaa.com? Someone at the Peoples Temple in Indy might want to check that.

New spreadsheet posted by NCAA: http://web1.ncaa.org/champsel_new/e...t=pdfrankings&type=pdf&regionRankSeq=194802.0
 
Re: Regional Rankings - Part III

What the hell is that? Only the ranked teams are listed now? Guess the secret process actually got more secret!

One thing I did want to see.... the Plattsburgh/Williams comparison is almost a wash. Guessing the head to head is the difference.

Which is NOT good as we've been discussing on FB. Just FYI a loss to Geneseo Saturday night and Williams wins every criteria (including L25) 5-1....SOS will come up some, but not enough to overtake Williams. Even with that, Plattsburgh loses COP, RNK (unless the toss in Oswego), and H2H....even if you want to go to secondary criteria, Plattsburgh (thanks to those 2 ties vs Geneseo and Brockport) gets beat there too.

The question then becomes, does the Committee compare UWSP and Williams first (which UWSP would win close), and then Williams vs Plattsburgh (which Williams would win) leaving Plattsburgh out as we assume SNC/Adrian loser wins the #1 Pool C. As Nate said and has been posted, if Plattsburgh wins...#2E seed. If Plattsburgh loses, out of the tournament (possible).
 
Re: Regional Rankings - Part III

With all due respect, we've also proven how much the SOS metric is worth and how it is used (in certain leagues) to help elevate overall SOS. For the most part SOS has always been the final straw when all other criteria are close (more rightfully so). Who's better, a team that has a RNK of 1-0-0 or a team who has a RNK of 6-1-0? By the numbers yes, but (normally) a team who's played 7 RNK'd teams will have a stronger SOS.

IMO, Champs, SOS and win % are easily (and roughly equally) the two most salient factors in this statistical comparison. RNK has a cliff, which you never want in a statistical model, and COP is already accounted-for via win%/SOS. L25 is just silly. I can see using H2H when two teams are in a virtual tie, but H2H data is generally too sparse to be given much weight in the context of an entire season.

Said it a million times, but the AQ's are the biggest wrench in these gears. Not throwing you a bone here, but if Platty doesn't get a berth this season (for instance) it'll be a crime against reason.
 
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Re: Regional Rankings - Part III

IMO, Champs, SOS and win % are easily (and roughly equally) the two most salient factors in this statistical comparison. RNK has a cliff, which you never want in a statistical model, and COP is already accounted-for via win%/SOS. L25 is just silly. I can see using H2H when two teams are in a virtual tie, but H2H data is generally too sparse to be given much weight in the context of an entire season.

Said it a million times, but the AQ's are the biggest wrench in these gears. Not throwing you a bone here, but if Platty doesn't get a berth this season (for instance) it'll be a crime against reason.

L25 went away this year
 
Re: Regional Rankings - Part III

IMO, Champs, SOS and win % are easily (and roughly equally) the two most salient factors in this statistical comparison. RNK has a cliff, which you never want in a statistical model, and COP is already accounted-for via win%/SOS. L25 is just silly. I can see using H2H when two teams are in a virtual tie, but H2H data is generally too sparse to be given much weight in the context of an entire season.

Somewhat agree to an extent, however Win % isn't as pure as you want to believe. I invite you to go over and read some of the banter that Webb and others were discussing in regards to the SOS and the advantage playing a 3-game series conference has with regards to elevated SOS. With that being said, you make "somewhat" valid points when dealing with the other criteriea, the issue is that no ONE criteria works alone. When you look at all 5 criteria together it makes much more sense. Team A has a high winning %. Okay who did they play? Well they have a decent SOS. Okay but once again who did they play? Well they played good teams, but they also played some really good (ranked) teams and did this. Okay, that's great and all, but Team B didn't play those teams, but they did play these teams (COP). How did they do against common opponents? IMO unless there is substantial data (more than "x" amount of games played), the criteria shouldn't be looked at. For example: Endicott 1-0-0 RNK....is that better then a 6-1-2?? Criteria says yes. Common opponents: is 2-0-0 better than 5-1-1? Criteria says yes. RNK : is 2-0-1 (but 2 of the 3 games vs #10 RNK and a tie vs #9, better then 5-2-0 but with wins over #1, #3 x2, #5x2, and a loss to #2 and #4? Once again we come back to SOS: is a 17-4-2 NEHC school who's played 8-9 games vs ranked teams better then a 19-2-2 MASCAC school who hasn't played one? Yes you go to OOWP but even the MASCAC schools play ECACNE teams who can have high winning%.

There is just to many questions to strictly go by SOS and Win%, and while I agree somewhat that the other criteria either run into each other or can make little to no sense, when you look at everything as a whole, it makes a little sense.

Honestly I wish we didn't have 60+ teams and we were not limited to a 25 game schedule so more teams couple play one another. Then a KRACH or RPI ranking would be much easier. Too many teams play too many different styles of schedules, both conference and non-conference.

Said it a million times, but the AQ's are the biggest wrench in these gears. Not throwing you a bone here, but if Platty doesn't get a berth this season (for instance) it'll be a crime against reason.

Again, somewhat agree, but only because unlike DI bouncyball 11 spots with 7 auto bids is just too small to get a lot of well deserving teams. Having said that, while it would be nice to see more Pool C bids awarded, only a couple times over the past 2 decades has a team receiving a Pool C bid won the title. Even more rare is 2 Pool C teams making it to the Title Game. And again, while having an 11 team tournament with no autobids would be cute and all, there are just too many teams who can maneuver their schedule to beat the math system with out going into really big detailed fair math solutions. (How everyone is up in arms about Top FBS schools playing cupcakes and padding their win totals)
 
Re: Regional Rankings - Part III

I invite you to go over and read some of the banter that Webb and others were discussing in regards to the SOS and the advantage playing a 3-game series conference has with regards to elevated SOS.
In Webb's latest bracketology thread, he basically ignores the data table and picks two semi-randomly to accompany SNC as Pool Cs.

I'll repeat what I say every year, (and agree with Fish) the autobids are great for "participation" awards, but really devalue the entire process, and make the play-in round of the tourney a farce.

P.S. - I'd put Genny in over Williams simply based on the h2h.
 
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Re: Regional Rankings - Part III

If Plattsburgh wins the SUNYAC, Genny gets hit with the loss in RvR and in CoP with Williams. Is that enough to tip the tide towards the Ephs?

If Genny wins the SUNYAC, does Williams H2H win knock Plattsburgh out? If that happens, the screams coming out of the Ronnie B will be heard in the farthest reaches of the planet.
 
Re: Regional Rankings - Part III

If Plattsburgh wins the SUNYAC, Genny gets hit with the loss in RvR and in CoP with Williams. Is that enough to tip the tide towards the Ephs?

Geneseo would win SOS (maybe), and H2H. Williams would win Win%, RNK and COP. Even if you want to call that close, L25 still favors Williams.

If Genny wins the SUNYAC, does Williams H2H win knock Plattsburgh out? If that happens, the screams coming out of the Ronnie B will be heard in the farthest reaches of the planet.

It's been a hot topic, and while some don't want to admit it, its very possible. IF Plattsburgh was to lose to Geneseo, Plattsburgh would lose criteria 4-1 (5-1 if you want to include L25) to Williams. It then comes down to PSU/UWSP. If UWSP wins Saturday, the criteria is much closer, and while PSU "should" take it, it's still close. The problem is with who they select first. If Plattsburgh loses, Williams SHOULD jump ahead of Plattsburgh and be the East #1 Pool C option. Then Williams would go up against UWSP first, with UWSP edging Williams grabbing the #2 Pool C (Adrian/SNC loser gets #1). Thus would it then go PSU/Williams? In which Williams smokes PSU in criteria, thus leaving Plattsburgh on the outside looking in.

As I said, one game can mean Plattsburgh grabbing the #2E Seed or on the bench watching the playoffs if they were to lose. Then again, they could add in some help in that #10E RNK.
 
Re: Regional Rankings - Part III

In Webb's latest bracketology thread, he basically ignores the data table and picks two semi-randomly to accompany SNC as Pool Cs.

Only to illustrate a potential bracket option we could end up seeing. It was pointless to haggle over those Pool comparisons considering they'll be irrelevant by midnight Saturday. Had we tried to justly shoehorn two of them in, Williams would have been one of them and the final spot would have been between Geneseo and Point. This likely differs with what would happen in reality considering Babson is ranked ahead of Geneseo, which quite frankly makes little sense to us.
 
Re: Regional Rankings - Part III

Somewhat agree to an extent, however Win % isn't as pure as you want to believe. I invite you to go over and read some of the banter that Webb and others were discussing in regards to the SOS and the advantage playing a 3-game series conference has with regards to elevated SOS.
Thing is, neither stat stands alone. Win % and SOS must be calculated in concert to yield any meaningful data.

And the more games any team plays against quality opponents, the more that team provides meaningful data vis-a-vis the statistical process. I don't need to see a link to make that clear to me, nor should you, Champs. (Plymouth has the best win % in Eastern D-3 this season, but they're on the very fringe of the radar, because their competition was weak. Makes perfect sense to me.)
 
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Re: Regional Rankings - Part III

Isn't Babson .500 vs Ranked?

Wins vs UMB and Hobart
Losses vs UMB and Endicott

Or am I missing something?

Do we know if vs. Ranked is "Ranked at the time they played" or "Ranked at the end of the season"?

If it's Rank at the time they played, then Babson:

W v. Hobart #12 (1-0)
W v. Norwich #7 (2-0)
W v. Amherst #11 (3-0)
W v. UMB #5 (4-0)
L v. UMB #5 (4-1)
W v. Norwich #14 (5-1)

But that would be like an .833, so that can't be right. Personally, I think this is how "vs. Ranked" should be measured.

If it's ranked at end of season, I'm see .500 as well.

Either way it feels like something is not right.
 
Do we know if vs. Ranked is "Ranked at the time they played" or "Ranked at the end of the season"?

If it's Rank at the time they played, then Babson:

W v. Hobart #12 (1-0)
W v. Norwich #7 (2-0)
W v. Amherst #11 (3-0)
W v. UMB #5 (4-0)
L v. UMB #5 (4-1)
W v. Norwich #14 (5-1)

But that would be like an .833, so that can't be right. Personally, I think this is how "vs. Ranked" should be measured.

If it's ranked at end of season, I'm see .500 as well.

Either way it feels like something is not right.

For 1. No, its ranked at the time of the poll

2. Its ranked as in NCAA ranking, not uscho or d3 poll

Go to d3hockey.com and read the bracketology thread. It explains it.
 
Do we know if vs. Ranked is "Ranked at the time they played" or "Ranked at the end of the season"?

If it's Rank at the time they played, then Babson:

W v. Hobart #12 (1-0)
W v. Norwich #7 (2-0)
W v. Amherst #11 (3-0)
W v. UMB #5 (4-0)
L v. UMB #5 (4-1)
W v. Norwich #14 (5-1)

But that would be like an .833, so that can't be right. Personally, I think this is how "vs. Ranked" should be measured.

If it's ranked at end of season, I'm see .500 as well.

Either way it feels like something is not right.

Ranked at time of ranking. No retroactive.
 
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