Quinnipiac 2014-2015 Women's Thread: "Kelly Who?"

[PuckRush]

Re: Quinnipiac 2014-2015 Women's Thread: "Kelly Who?"

Ok - where do any of those accuse the players of being the problem? How do you define the "problem"? I think most of us would define Seeley as the problem based on the info provided. Being skeptical of a story does not accuse the player of being the problem. That deals with 1 & 2 which both relate to the pants peeing claim. With regard to the third - that is not accusing the players of being the "problem". It is pointing out that if those players are upset by this message board (which I highly doubt), they need to get over it. Boo hoo. They can have whatever feelings they want. You are the self-professed guardian of their feelings. The real issue is your "horrified" reaction to anyone expressing any opinion other than unfettered solicitude for them. You never explained your crusade. What is your stake in all this?

You believe that questioning the players story and her father's justification for telling it is a neutral position. We disagree and I see no resolution.

I am not horrified by someone posting. I was horrified that he dismissed the issue the players have as being "whiny". I hope that clears it up.

My stake in all of this should be obvious - I don't like your opinion on the issue.

 

[PuckRush]

Re: Quinnipiac 2014-2015 Women's Thread: "Kelly Who?"

Why? There are huge built-in disincentives to reporting, as players and parents have found in various programs.

1) Administrations don't want to know of problems, and are disinclined to believe them especially if they like the coach and/or he/she is winning. History suggests changes are never made until years of recurring problems, and typically only then if the team is struggling to win.
2) Complaints to administration are automatically relayed back to the coach, which results in even greater problems for the player, typically including dismissal from the team. This is true even in situations where players band together and complain as a group, as occurred at Penn State last year.
3) Making information public, either through message boards or media, also is a no win situation. Complaints are seen by a majority as merely as coming from someone "with an axe to grind", and retaliating because of insufficient ice time rather than due to genuine coaching issues. As is done regularly on this board, the usual reaction is to rush to the defence of the poor, maligned coach who is being targeted by whiny, too soft, disgruntled players.

The fact is that players have no recourse other than quitting. The only means of affecting change, is for future players, by getting the word out through their networks to get recruits to stay away from certain programs. However, because so many have stars in their eyes about the prospect of D1, too many families tend not to conduct sufficient due diligence anyway, or discount the negative accounts from current and past players.

Wow. This post is almost... well no, it's perfect. It explains to a "t" why it's so hard for players to speak up. I think this post also points to solutions - there needs to be a secure channel for players to give feedback to the administration without fear of retaliation or repercussion.

 

[pokechecker]

Re: Quinnipiac 2014-2015 Women's Thread: "Kelly Who?"

Wow. This post is almost... well no, it's perfect. It explains to a "t" why it's so hard for players to speak up. I think this post also points to solutions - there needs to be a secure channel for players to give feedback to the administration without fear of retaliation or repercussion.

if the part about Penn State was left out maybe it would be perfect, and it also explains why you can't just assume the players accusations are true, because it always isn't

but I'm also beginning to see why the eastern teams can't win a championship and nobody goes to games, crappy coaches and players who wet their pants, probably also explains why pro women's hockey will never come to being, who wants to pay to watch players players like that? You are playing a sport, it ain't for sissies and crybabies. Yes these jerks don't deserve to coach, but it is also true that some of these players should have stuck with cheerleading or figure skating

 

[PuckRush]

Re: Quinnipiac 2014-2015 Women's Thread: "Kelly Who?"

if the part about Penn State was left out maybe it would be perfect, and it also explains why you can't just assume the players accusations are true, because it always isn't

but I'm also beginning to see why the eastern teams can't win a championship and nobody goes to games, crappy coaches and players who wet their pants, probably also explains why pro women's hockey will never come to being, who wants to pay to watch players players like that? You are playing a sport, it ain't for sissies and crybabies. Yes these jerks don't deserve to coach, but it is also true that some of these players should have stuck with cheerleading or figure skating

There is really a lack of understanding in this post.

East vs West: This is a throw-away on your part I'm sure, but I'll address it. You blame the eastern teams for this problem. I looked at the Quinny roster. I see players from Minnesota, Sweden, Alberta and Iowa. I'm guessing from your post you think these are not the "problem players", and that it must just be the eastern-raised kids. Or you are saying that players become sissies and crybabies when they come out east. Either way, if you're serious... no, you can't be serious.

Sissies and Crybabies: I'm just shaking my head in amazement that you think these players should be cheerleading and figure skating. But you know what? I get it - and sadly, you're not alone.

Look, we need to acknowledge that there are differences in how one should manage male athletes versus coaching female athletes. You can't apply everything that works in the men's locker room and simply introduce it into the ladies locker room. That testosterone-filled "let's go to war" mentality - with expletives and physicality - just doesn't work and isn't appropriate. Add the idea that the person delivering that message can be a physically bigger man, and we've got a problem in the locker room.

(This conclusion comes from coaching both genders, and as father of several accomplished athletes. I even "polled" my daughters prior to writing this and they said what they see NHL coaches do on 24/7, for example, is not a motivator.)

I find girls/women much easier to coach frankly, and I learned quickly that yelling and throwing the erase board across the room didn't work with them.

Male coaches that understand this will succeed. Those that don't, are failing and looking for work.

 

[shelfit]

Re: Quinnipiac 2014-2015 Women's Thread: "Kelly Who?"

There is really a lack of understanding in this post.

East vs West: This is a throw-away on your part I'm sure, but I'll address it. You blame the eastern teams for this problem. I looked at the Quinny roster. I see players from Minnesota, Sweden, Alberta and Iowa. I'm guessing from your post you think these are not the "problem players", and that it must just be the eastern-raised kids. Or you are saying that players become sissies and crybabies when they come out east. Either way, if you're serious... no, you can't be serious.

Sissies and Crybabies: I'm just shaking my head in amazement that you think these players should be cheerleading and figure skating. But you know what? I get it - and sadly, you're not alone.

Look, we need to acknowledge that there are differences in how one should manage male athletes versus coaching female athletes. You can't apply everything that works in the men's locker room and simply introduce it into the ladies locker room. That testosterone-filled "let's go to war" mentality - with expletives and physicality - just doesn't work and isn't appropriate. Add the idea that the person delivering that message can be a physically bigger man, and we've got a problem in the locker room.

(This conclusion comes from coaching both genders, and as father of several accomplished athletes. I even "polled" my daughters prior to writing this and they said what they see NHL coaches do on 24/7, for example, is not a motivator.)

I find girls/women much easier to coach frankly, and I learned quickly that yelling and throwing the erase board across the room didn't work with them.

Male coaches that understand this will succeed. Those that don't, are failing and looking for work.

Good post, but now you've got me wanting to hear more about your formula for successfully coaching, motivating, disciplining when necessary, etc, the female athlete.

 

[pokechecker]

Re: Quinnipiac 2014-2015 Women's Thread: "Kelly Who?"

Look, we need to acknowledge that there are differences in how one should manage male athletes versus coaching female athletes. You can't apply everything that works in the men's locker room and simply introduce it into the ladies locker room. That testosterone-filled "let's go to war" mentality - with expletives and physicality - just doesn't work and isn't appropriate. Add the idea that the person delivering that message can be a physically bigger man, and we've got a problem in the locker room.

(This conclusion comes from coaching both genders, and as father of several accomplished athletes. I even "polled" my daughters prior to writing this and they said what they see NHL coaches do on 24/7, for example, is not a motivator.)

I find girls/women much easier to coach frankly, and I learned quickly that yelling and throwing the erase board across the room didn't work with them.

Male coaches that understand this will succeed. Those that don't, are failing and looking for work.

agree 100%

but note, it took my comment to motivate someone to make this post

 

[Cali]

agree 100%

but note, it took my comment to motivate someone to make this post

True, but presumably Puckrush is a male.

Of the females that read your post, 20% are stewing quietly, 15% are pointing and laughing at the post in disgust, 5% are thinking of quiting USCHO, 10% are dissecting every word to try to understand better and 50% stopped reading after the first sentence.

 

[pokechecker]

Re: Quinnipiac 2014-2015 Women's Thread: "Kelly Who?"

True, but presumably Puckrush is a male.

Of the females that read your post, 20% are stewing quietly, 15% are pointing and laughing at the post in disgust, 5% are thinking of quiting USCHO, 10% are dissecting every word to try to understand better and 50% stopped reading after the first sentence.

probably also urinated in their pants

True, but presumably Puckrush is a male.

Of the females that read your post, 20% are stewing quietly, 15% are pointing and laughing at the post in disgust, 5% are thinking of quiting USCHO, 10% are dissecting every word to try to understand better and 50% stopped reading after the first sentence.

I know a psychology professor who claims only 20-25% of people are capable of rational thought and following a logical argument, so I think you have underestimated that group.

 

[PuckRush]

Re: Quinnipiac 2014-2015 Women's Thread: "Kelly Who?"

Good post, but now you've got me wanting to hear more about your formula for successfully coaching, motivating, disciplining when necessary, etc, the female athlete.

I think there are plenty of styles that work and a great many coaches who are effective.

While I have avoided your question, I will chime in on a related note: I do think coaching in general has evolved for the positive.

Many of us remember the days of Woody Hayes and Bobby Knight, and quite a few of my coaches in school often used their "fire and brimstone" approach. I'm sure lots of you had the same experience. Today, I don't see coaches like them - in fact, I can't think of any current, high profile versions of them. That style appears to be nearing extinction.

Mike Krzyzewski masterfully coached Duke to the championship this year (again). Lots of energy, and most of it positive. I think he could coach any gender effectively.

Pete Carroll and Bill Belichick, perhaps two of the greatest NFL coaches ever, faced off in this year's Super Bowl. That was a coaching clinic, from preparation to on-field demeanor. I highly recommend you watch this video - http://www.nfl.com/videos/inside-th...ide-the-NFL-Super-Bowl-second-half-highlights). The coaches have different styles - Pete is all energy, Bill is all control - but they focus on the positive and the teaching. It's the players in these videos that do the war cries - and that's a male thing.