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POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

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Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

Wisko McBadgerton said:
Right, that is my point. There were recordings of Flynn. There are recordings of all the Russians. There are watchers.

The FBI and advisors within the Obama White House have reviewed the Flynn recordings. Did they get Flynn selling the Ruskis the Statue of Liberty on them? Where's the smoking gun? Is Flynn under arrest? Why not?
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You do understand they dont need a smoking gun right? He wasnt supposed to be talking to them in the first place let alone giving them assurances that the sanctions against them would be lifted. (which we found out in the early leak) The smoking gun was the call itself.

If they didnt do anything wrong, why do they keep lying and stonewalling? Why did Flynn get fired? Why did the Justice Department warn them about what was going on? If there is nothing there why is everyone acting like something is there?

Nice dodge of the Hillary question though...
 
Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

alfablue said:
Well, given how short of time we are into this administration, I'm not sure how you can expect instant work on it. How many years did the Hillary thing go on? It takes a lot of effort and proof to prosecute anyone, let alone a government official.

Time will tell.

One thing that don's guys keep pointing out- they have been recorded doing something.

And one of my points bears repeating- they are dumber than rocks if they did get recorded talking to Russians. Seriously- once don became the R's nominee, he did start to get intel briefings. I'd be pretty confident that he was informed that Russians were part of routine recording, as well as some suspicions that they were already involved in hacking the Democrats. If he didn't tell his people to keep their heads down in the face of that- I personally don't think they are qualified to run anything, as it's the most obvious thing not to do in a very long time.

Do we want people that stupid running things? I don't.
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Flynn was a big wig in Intelligence and even he was dumb enough to get recorded. (by both sides!)
 
Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

Handyman said:
Flynn was a big wig in Intelligence and even he was dumb enough to get recorded. (by both sides!)
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Yeah, but Flynn is an idiot. Look up "Flynn facts" sometime. I have no idea how the guy got to run the DIA when everybody with a smidgen of sense who met him said he was a fool.

It doesn't surprise me in the least Flynn got caught. There are a lot of people walking around this town with fancy titles who really know next to nothing about tradecraft. It's always been first and foremost a political town.
 
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Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

Much like Watergate, this is likely to take a couple of years to fully unravel. Impeachment and removal will only be worth it if a subsequent criminal trial for treason is held which leads to him (and others) getting a one-way ticket to ADX Florence. Otherwise, he'll be able to still have rallies and look like a martyr to the unwashed rubes who pulled the lever for him.
 
Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
Much like Watergate, this is likely to take a couple of years to fully unravel. Impeachment and removal will only be worth it if a subsequent criminal trial for treason is held which leads to him (and others) getting a one-way ticket to ADX Florence. Otherwise, he'll be able to still have rallies and look like a martyr to the unwashed rubes who pulled the lever for him.
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Nobody in this administration, let alone the Dumpster Himself, is going to supermax. The Iran-Contra and Iraq War criminals never even sniffed a subpoena. The rules have changed and federal pols are just another breed of white collar criminal now. Prison is for little people, not the ruling class.
 
Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

Kepler said:
Nobody in this administration, let alone the Dumpster Himself, is going to supermax. The Iran-Contra and Iraq War criminals never even sniffed a subpoena. The rules have changed and federal pols are just another breed of white collar criminal now. Prison is for little people, not the ruling class.
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I know. I just want to imagine him eating prison food for the rest of his miserable life. ;)
 
Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

A really good nuts and bolts piece about how budgets really get passed and how all the things Trump has done so far are disrupting the process that Members are used to and for the most part like.

The takeaway here is that Trump actually is a sea change in the way in which bills move forward and are marked up. He promised to be a disruptive force and is being one. The question is, is the disruption planned and intelligent or haphazard and inept, and will Members respect loyalty and mission enough to let the old comfortable way of working, with its myriad opportunities to CYA, go?
 
Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

Wisko McBadgerton said:
Right, that is my point. There were recordings of Flynn. There are recordings of all the Russians. There are watchers.

The FBI and advisors within the Obama White House have reviewed the Flynn recordings. Did they get Flynn selling the Ruskis the Statue of Liberty on them? Where's the smoking gun? Is Flynn under arrest? Why not?
Click to expand...

Watergate took two years to resolve. Two ****ing years. How long do you think borderline sedition is going to take to prosecute? THis isn't Law & Order where everything is wrapped up in a nice little package with a red bow in one 42-minute segment.

This is going to take years to sort out. We're talking nations and billionaires who have vast networks of shell corporations, travel across the world that needs to be sorted out, calls from every corner of Washington and every stop along the way in the primaries. The amount of data they need to parse is going to fill the Library of Congress.

Also unlike Law & Order, you don't bring a case until you find where the buck stops. You don't have a single bad actor (not in the thespian sense of the word) in this case. It's potentially dozens or hundreds of people.
 
Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

Kepler said:
Nobody in this administration, let alone the Dumpster Himself, is going to supermax. The Iran-Contra and Iraq War criminals never even sniffed a subpoena. The rules have changed and federal pols are just another breed of white collar criminal now. Prison is for little people, not the ruling class.
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There's a first time for everything. This country doesn't have a history of treating traitors well.
 
Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

Before we start fashioning Trump for leg irons, I too say let the process play itself out. If I were a Trump associate, I'd be less worried about the FBI recording me and more worried about the Russians doing it! Think about it. If Putin's goal is to destabilize the US, what better way than the help get your preferred candidate elected, and then bury him months later with selected leaks from conversations his closest aides had with Russian intelligence agents. Total chaos ensues.

IIRC about Watergate, Nixon didn't necessarily authorize the original break-in, but he was all in on keeping it a secret once he found out. Trump may not have known specifically how his campaign and the Russians were coordinating to hack and leak info, but it that did indeed happen its going to be distinction without a difference.

EDIT: Having said all that, I don't see this ending well for Trump. Is there anybody on this team who hasn't been in contact with the Russians, and isn't this extremely uncommon in the midst of a Presidential campaign? What were they all chatting about, the Sochi Olympics?
 
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Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

Some talk that this is less about Trump being the Russians' Manchurian Candidate, and more about him wanting to keep his various business dealings with them, and possibly people with ties to the Russian mob, under wraps.
 
Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

Rover said:
Before we start fashioning Trump for leg irons, I too say let the process play itself out. If I were a Trump associate, I'd be less worried about the FBI recording me and more worried about the Russians doing it! Think about it. If Putin's goal is to destabilize the US, what better way than the help get your preferred candidate elected, and then bury him months later with selected leaks from conversations his closest aides had with Russian intelligence agents. Total chaos ensues.

IIRC about Watergate, Nixon didn't necessarily authorize the original break-in, but he was all in on keeping it a secret once he found out. Trump may not have known specifically how his campaign and the Russians were coordinating to hack and leak info, but it that did indeed happen its going to be distinction without a difference.

EDIT: Having said all that, I don't see this ending well for Trump. Is there anybody on this team who hasn't been in contact with the Russians, and isn't this extremely uncommon in the midst of a Presidential campaign? What were they all chatting about, the Sochi Olympics?
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The only ending for Trump might be his defeat in the election of 2020. Nothing is going to happen to him politically before then. Republicans will let this nation fail before they take down "one of their own." And make no mistake, Trump is one of their own. They know that despite the polls saying he's at an historically low approval rating, their elections in 2018 are in large part not in doubt. Without the complete and utter collapse of the economy and the revolution that MIGHT spark, they have little to fear from the voters since the country has been so effectively gerrymandered. All but the most incompetent of pols get reelected. All of this talk about Trump being in trouble politically is laughable. Trump could quite literally say or do anything, and unless republican members of the house and senate fear losing an election in 2018, he's not going anywhere. Mark it down. It doesn't matter if his approval ratings are down to 35%. Even though most of us shake our heads and wonder how even a third of American can think he's doing even a mediocre job, that third will enthusiastically support him. And just enough of the rest of American (and American politicians) will support him as well, even if many won't admit it because someone in their lives might not like the idea they support a fascist. But it can't be said enough, Trump ain't getting impeached and he ain't gonna quit. People who care about the future are going to have to find some other way to stave off the destruction of our society than to wait around for him to go.
 
Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

WeAreNDHockey said:
Republicans will let this nation fail before they take down "one of their own."
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The moment he starts costing the Kochs money or he starts costing the GOP seats in the House and Senate is the second before they hit the submit button on articles of impeachment.
 
Re: POTUS 45.7 - Has the left reached the acceptance stage yet?

rufus said:
Some talk that this is less about Trump being the Russians' Manchurian Candidate, and more about him wanting to keep his various business dealings with them, and possibly people with ties to the Russian mob, under wraps.
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Depending on who it is, it may fly in the face of the Emoluments Clause. That would be interesting to see how it's resolved.

One thing I think will happen- if the russians keep digging at destabilizing our system, I do expect some Republicans to step in. They can only go so far before they lose control, too. At least I *hope* they will stand up to a foreign power trying to take down our system.
 
rufus said:
Some talk that this is less about Trump being the Russians' Manchurian Candidate, and more about him wanting to keep his various business dealings with them, and possibly people with ties to the Russian mob, under wraps.
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Obvious statement is obvious. His own kid admitted years back that they do a disproportionately large volume of financing through Russia.


dxmnkd316 said:
The moment he starts costing the Kochs money or he starts costing the GOP seats in the House and Senate is the second before they hit the submit button on articles of impeachment.
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Oh. That's cute. We have seven years and fourty weeks of Trump to go with how the general public has gone lately. The last four year President was Bush Sr, but that followed eight years of Reagan.

The last four year President of the opposite party that flipped again the next election was Carter (bookended by Ford and Reagan). Eisenhower put in eight years while being bookended by Democrats.

So, other than Carter, the last four year fling with the opposite party before returning goes back to the expansionist era when Benjamin Harrison served in between two Grover Cleveland tours.


So the Dems need to get busy finding someone with the charisma of Trump, but with some sense of what the fu** their doing. Or we're in for the long haul with Trump.
 
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