POTUS 45.5 - Sweden is Under Attack

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.5 - Sweden is Under Attack

Then "a lot of people" are fuking idiots and deserve what's coming to them once Trump reign of error is finished. People need to have the common sense that the status quo under a Dem administration is better than total GOP control of gov with Trump as the leader. Anybody too stupid to figure that out should be horsewhipped.

The next four years are the horsewhipping, particularly for lower income rust belt whites.

But we need to give them a reason to come home. I haven't heard us offer one yet. It's not effective to be right at the 10,000 foot altitude if you don't have strong fence posts at ground level.

So far, I can see us running as the out party in 2018 on a platform of "the GOP is incompetent -- look at the mess they've made," and that might be enough for one cycle particularly since Trump, Ryan and McConnell are the gang that couldn't shoot straight, but we do need a concrete vision for the future that gives our supporters something to grasp on to when the biennial tidal wave of Republican lies roars in. For that, we need solid leadership.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.5 - Sweden is Under Attack

Errr... ahem

http://www.politico.com/tipsheets/m...cks-perez-as-sanders-supporters-resist-218930

I didn't say they've stopped, I said it hasn't worked.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.5 - Sweden is Under Attack

Personal foul, excessive celebration.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.5 - Sweden is Under Attack

Great article on what tying Health Care to employment does to the work force.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/27/...etirement.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

Based on what I see every day out of both parties we have given up on trying to make things affordable. If I were running things I would take the high risk pool and give them all Federal Government Insurance. Take the money out of the defense budget to pay for it. With those people out of the regular insurance pool everyone else's rates would drop dramatically. That's basically the same dynamic Medicare provides by taking old people out of the regular insurance pool.

It's also the same dynamic that was supposed to occur in public education with special ed. But, the Feds to this day have never come through on their promise for funding for that.

See, this is what I see as our biggest problem in Government today. There is no logic being applied to what is the Federal Government's responsibility and what should be happening at the lower levels of government.

 

[Rover]

Re: POTUS 45.5 - Sweden is Under Attack

The next four years are the horsewhipping, particularly for lower income rust belt whites.

But we need to give them a reason to come home. I haven't heard us offer one yet. It's not effective to be right at the 10,000 foot altitude if you don't have strong fence posts at ground level.

Slightly different take here. I don't think they're ever coming home, or have even been in the party for awhile. Seems these people all jumped the ship when Reagan showed up and except for maybe in 2008 they've stayed there. My take on the election is this: Trump got all of these people and everybody else who always votes Republican as they've been in the 60-62M vote range since 2004. What Dems need to do, and perhaps they can now that they have a DNC chairman, is figure out who didn't vote and why.

Start with Wisconsin. Trump got less votes in a winning effort in 2016 than Bush got in a losing effort in 2004. That means a bunch of Dems didn't show up a dozen years later. Who are they? Where did they go (3rd party, not vote?). Why didn't they up down ballot even if they weren't big Hillary fans? Its critical to get the answers to this.

 

[aparch]

We can't find other jobs or other industries for these people to work in? Really? They're voting for coal jobs?

I hear there is an opening for head cook at a small Mexican restaurant in West Frankfort, Illinois...



In all seriousness, yes these people voted for coal jobs. Because coal jobs are the only jobs these families have done for three generations or longer. Generational job decline has happened to iron mining families in the UP and Northern Minnesota. It's happened to cotton farmers in the south. It's happened to auto workers in Flint and Saginaw. But coal hung on long enough to find a voice to rally behind, however misguided that voice is.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.5 - Sweden is Under Attack

I hear there is an opening for head cook at a small Mexican restaurant in West Frankfort, Illinois...



In all seriousness, yes these people voted for coal jobs. Because coal jobs are the only jobs these families have done for three generations or longer. Generational job decline has happened to iron mining families in the UP and Northern Minnesota. It's happened to cotton farmers in the south. It's happened to auto workers in Flint and Saginaw. But coal hung on long enough to find a voice to rally behind, however misguided that voice is.

This should be a state issue. It shouldn't even be a Federal issue. What the Feds should be doing at the coal mining level is destroying it, not propping it up. The State should be finding other work for these people to do. That's their job.

Trump has turned this on it's head. And it's to the detriment of everyone.

 

[aparch]

This should be a state issue. It shouldn't even be a Federal issue. What the Feds should be doing at the coal mining level is destroying it, not propping it up. The State should be finding other work for these people to do. That's their job.

Trump has turned this on it's head. And it's to the detriment of everyone.

I agree. And it seems that industry is trying to find a way into those locations, begrudgingly by the locals. I thought someone posted an article about how West Virginia was leading the nation in solar power factory production, and yet the locals whined about bringing coal back. Shareholder demand for higher profits has lead to companies looking at reducing costs in every way, merging with companies, etc. There isn't a magic bullet, or one maestro who can wave a wand and fix everything.

The people who voted for Trump believing that are suckers. They're also the same people who invest $20 a week on Powerball tickets instead of putting that money in a savings account or IRA.


On the flip side, states need a source of funding for re-training or continuing education. That is why they cry foul and this has been a federal issue, because the feds can "just print money."

Is there any way we can just pause the whole **** economy for like one day, clear out the books, and just start from scratch with budgets, taxes, and financial rules that make sense and are balanced?

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.5 - Sweden is Under Attack

Slightly different take here. I don't think they're ever coming home, or have even been in the party for awhile. Seems these people all jumped the ship when Reagan showed up and except for maybe in 2008 they've stayed there. My take on the election is this: Trump got all of these people and everybody else who always votes Republican as they've been in the 60-62M vote range since 2004. What Dems need to do, and perhaps they can now that they have a DNC chairman, is figure out who didn't vote and why.

Start with Wisconsin. Trump got less votes in a winning effort in 2016 than Bush got in a losing effort in 2004. That means a bunch of Dems didn't show up a dozen years later. Who are they? Where did they go (3rd party, not vote?). Why didn't they up down ballot even if they weren't big Hillary fans? Its critical to get the answers to this.

Fair point. I don't actually see the two things as incompatible, though. We can play offense and defense, since every vote we flip from the orcs is 2 votes we don't need to create among our own supporters.

I think we get back most of our regular voters by putting up a candidate with some level of charisma. Our two most recent successful presidential candidates scored very high on charisma. Our four most recent losing presidential candidates scored scored extremely low on it. This is not a coincidence.

One lesson we can learn from the GOP is how you say something is at least as important as what you say with a very large number of voters.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.5 - Sweden is Under Attack

I agree. And it seems that industry is trying to find a way into those locations, begrudgingly by the locals. I thought someone posted an article about how West Virginia was leading the nation in solar power factory production, and yet the locals whined about bringing coal back. Shareholder demand for higher profits has lead to companies looking at reducing costs in every way, merging with companies, etc. There isn't a magic bullet, or one maestro who can wave a wand and fix everything.

The people who voted for Trump believing that are suckers. They're also the same people who invest $20 a week on Powerball tickets instead of putting that money in a savings account or IRA.


On the flip side, states need a source of funding for re-training or continuing education. That is why they cry foul and this has been a federal issue, because the feds can "just print money."

Is there any way we can just pause the whole **** economy for like one day, clear out the books, and just start from scratch with budgets, taxes, and financial rules that make sense and are balanced?

The Feds should help provide money for retraining. But the states shouldn't just sit there and whine about it.

 

[Rover]

Re: POTUS 45.5 - Sweden is Under Attack

Which is why Dems should adopt my energy policy as laid out in the Rover Manifesto!

Regarding coal, here is what I would do for those hillbillies. First, regardless of education levels, it needs to be politely explained, and I'd use Itch McConnell to make this point, that its cheaper to stick a pipe into the ground and up comes natural gas than it is to pay 1000 people to operate heavy mining equipment and haul coal up from the ground. For that reason, coal jobs are disappearing regardless of regulations. Otherwise, why has Itch been a Senator for 30 years and been impotent when it comes to saving coal jobs?

BUT, in Roverland, I would make this promise. I would allocate a cool 1 Billion dollars to the study of clean coal, concentrated on the mining operations and university researches in Appalachia. In particular I'm looking at KY, WV, etc. I think WY is the largest coal producing state but whatever. Now some may see this as an obvious payoff, which may or may not be true, but these people ain't votin' Dem regardless. However, lets look at this from an environmental standpoint. A lot of countries around the world still burn coal. IF we can develop a cleaner way to do so, even if we aren't using that ourselves, we ought to look into it. It also gives these bumpkins some hope that they won't go completely extinct and that they're not totally forgotten about in the new world, be it one of clean energy or fracking (or something in between).

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.5 - Sweden is Under Attack

One lesson we can learn from the GOP is how you say something is at least as important as what you say with a very large number of voters.

Don't forget the other thing we can learn. People would rather be lied to, then be thought of as ignorant, no matter how ignorant they may be.

 

[Rover]

Re: POTUS 45.5 - Sweden is Under Attack

Fair point. I don't actually see the two things as incompatible, though. We can play offense and defense, since every vote we flip from the orcs is 2 votes we don't need to create among our own supporters.

I think we get back most of our regular voters by putting up a candidate with some level of charisma. One lesson we can learn from the GOP is how you say something is at least as important as what you say with a very large number of voters.

Agree on playing offense and defense. Would be nice to know why people didn't vote in order to prioritize winning people over who voted Trump vs getting people to vote or vote again who've dropped out.

I'm a little leery on the charisma angle. I certainly would like every candidate to be charismatic. However we can't impose a higher standard than our Gooper friends, who's last charismatic candidate was the Gipper. Since then they've elected a prep school stiff (Bush I), a goober (Bush II) and a lunatic (Trump). People should have come out for Gore for example and didn't with disastrous results as you well know. A person being right on policy needs to be good enough. It is for the Republicans.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.5 - Sweden is Under Attack

Just so we all know. 10% isn't enough for the black hole known as our defense department.

"I think it's got to be greater than that, frankly." Gen Jack Keane on proposed defense spending increases. More, "absolutely necessary."

 

[Rover]

Re: POTUS 45.5 - Sweden is Under Attack

Just so we all know. 10% isn't enough for the black hole known as our defense department.

Did we invade a new country and Trump forgot to tell us? Or are we going to conquer Iraq for a 3rd time?

Trump fans (Drew, joecct, Flaggy, Sic), lets hear from you!

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: POTUS 45.5 - Sweden is Under Attack

Defense budget up 10%? Guess the endless war isn't ending anytime soon...

 

[unofan]

Then "a lot of people" are fuking idiots and deserve what's coming to them once Trump reign of error is finished.

Roughly half of the population has below average intelligence, and average isn't exactly great.

There really are a lot of idiots out there, and they get to vote (or not vote) just like everyone else.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.5 - Sweden is Under Attack

Don't forget the other thing we can learn. People would rather be lied to, then be thought of as ignorant, no matter how ignorant they may be.

Than or then? Because while I believe you meant the former what's happening in real time is the latter.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.5 - Sweden is Under Attack

Defense budget up 10%? Guess the endless war isn't ending anytime soon...

The defense department is a Republican make work welfare scam. It's the only thing they do that does not result in higher unemployment.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: POTUS 45.5 - Sweden is Under Attack

Then "a lot of people" are fuking idiots and deserve what's coming to them once Trump reign of error is finished.

That maybe true but one side did a much better job of generating the fear of losing and the other trotted out Hillary and assured everyone that it was a foregone conclusion that she would win.

As for Perez/Ellison I don't think the problem is either candidate or some sort of divide, I highlighted that article because it shows that the DNC doesn't listen to people and characterized those who were active and vocal as "anarchy". That's a joke and highlights a bigger problem.