POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

Paul Ryan? What did he lie about? Or did he get swept up in the same **** Pence did?

EDIT: just saw a teaser clip of Mitch with Joe from Morning Joe. Good old Mitch blows off the whole Russia thing as nothing.

Kepler Posted This Earlier

"As soon as they realized they were being misled by [Flynn], they asked for his resignation." Called out on that by a reporter who asked him about reports that the White House had known for weeks about Flynn's call and that he was compromised by his Russia ties, Ryan lamely answered "I'm not going to prejudge any of the circumstances surrounding this."

It is bad enough that Kellyanne Leary...err...Conway said the exact opposite which makes Ryan look like a fool but the fact that all evidence shows the WH knew weeks ago and ignored it means everything Ryan said is a flat out lie.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

Flynn!
Flynn!
Flynn!

Huh-wha? What immigration EO?

FLYNN!


Watch the other hand ...

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

Does nobody care that a very important international incident, which should have been discussed in a SECURE ROOM was discussed out in the open???

Scarlet pointed out that the football holder was posted in FB at the same place.

This was a national security issue, important to don's guest- the PM on Japan.

All talked about, with documents, and random people around them (ok, not random, but club members) taking pictures of the whole thing in the open.

We are berated that national security is so very important, so that we need a wall and that we need to cut off travel.

Yet this incident involving a probable nuclear power that we KNOW is unstable- no security.

I'm WAY more bothered by that than Flynn.

This is many orders of magnitude more loose with national security than any alleged thing Secretary Clinton did.

Stephen Colbert showed pictures of it last night...it boggles my mind.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

Flynn!
Flynn!
Flynn!

Huh-wha? What immigration EO?

FLYNN!


Watch the other hand ...

Its more than Flynn...Flynn is just the latest pawn to get sacrificed to protect the King. Trump is going to drag that whole party down with him. Thankfully his lame as EOs wont stand up to strict scrutiny. Even his handpicked SC judge doesnt support him.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

Kepler Posted This Earlier

Good God. Does the truth mean nothing to them?

 

[unofan]

Even his handpicked SC judge doesnt support him.

That remains to be seen. It's one thing to comment about judicial independence. It's another to actually back that up with votes.

Now Gorsuch is on record as being against Chevron deference, which could signal a strong anti-executive bent. But while that might be great in the short run, it's probably bad in the long run.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

I'm the hypocrite? When people were whining about HRC's email server, people like you were on here shouting that it doesn't matter. Even if she didn't follow protocol, since no national security secrets were ever compromised, it was much ado about nothing.

And not once did I ever argue against you and the others on that point. I agree. While she could have made a better decision, nothing was compromised, so what's the problem.

So I asked the question in this case. Apparently it's known what was talked about, but no one (certainly not here) seems too concerned about it. Instead, the most important issues are apparently, a) he talked to the Russians (who cares what about), and b) he lied about talking to the Russians.

Well it doesnt really matter what he talked about, he wasnt supposed to do it period. It seems to be the accepted wisdom (based on leaks) that he told them insider info about their puppet...err...Trump was going to lessen the sanctions which is a YUGE no-no. Now, normally that would lead to someone getting yelled at and nothing much happening but he did it in by far the dumbest way possible especially for someone that well versed in how the intelligence community works. The call was not secured and he was taped by most likely both the Russians and the Americans as he talked to the Russian Ambassadors out of turn. This puts him in a vulnerable position because if it is found out he will get in trouble (since he is not allowed to do this and the President for sure cant be implicated) which is why he denied it even after the leak happened. The second he was taped his career was dead in the water and instead of doing the smart thing he lied to the Administration (if you believe their story) and they went with his story covering for him. He lied, which means they lied and now he is FIRED!!!

Problem is this story has been around for a while now...people inside the WH have been leaking information about how Trump and Co. knew weeks ago so now their firing him looks less like "Do the Right Thing" and more like "All the Presidents Men". It doesnt help that no one is telling the same story. Kellyanne says he resigned because Trump wouldnt fire him and Ryan says they fired him as soon as they found out. Meanwhile all evidence seems to point to neither being true because unless Trump is literally living in a deprivation chamber he had to know days if not WEEKS ago.

All this because a 3 star General and veteran of the DIA couldnt be bothered to make a secure call when he tipped off the Russians they werent going to be sanctioned for very long...most likely at the behest of Donald.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

That remains to be seen. It's one thing to comment about judicial independence. It's another to actually back that up with votes.

Now Gorsuch is on record as being against Chevron deference, which could signal a strong anti-executive bent. But while that might be great in the short run, it's probably bad in the long run.

He hasnt gotten confirmed yet and he is on record against the President who nominated him. That would be ill advised anyways but with this Crackpot King it is downright suicidal. I am not saying he will go against him about everything but he isnt going to let Trump has his way with Unconstitutional Measures just because they belong to the same party.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

When people were whining about HRC's email server, people like you were on here shouting that it doesn't matter. Even if she didn't follow protocol, since no national security secrets were ever compromised, it was much ado about nothing.

There are several circumstances that make what the Trump White House is doing a bigger deal.

1. They're still doing it. This is their SOP. When people call them put on it they don't say "that was a mistake and we've stopped," they just slander the reporters.

2. It's far more broad. You have these process violations going on everywhere throughout the administration seemingly all the time. And they've only been on the job a couple weeks.

3. It's far deeper. The IC has suspended giving Trump all the critical briefings because of some combination of (a) there's a mole in the White House, (b) he apparently does not recongize the threat to our security from Russia, (c) he himself is very likely the worst national security risk, (d) he doesn't understand the briefings anyway, doesn't care about them, and privileges information he gets from Fox News or his golf buddies over his own intelligence apparatus, and/or (e) he may be mentally imbalanced.

The Clinton email thing was the type of procedural violation that happens in any administration, some low level staffer gets the ax, and it's over in a week. The GOP used it to win an election by using Congressional hearings as a purely partisan electoral tool. Trump's people are balls deep in corruption and national security violations some of which appear to border on actual treason, and the GOP Congress does nothing and the GOP supporters say "without a full investigation I choose to believe this is nothing and, by the way, no investigation."

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

Put it this way...if the HRC Email Tragedy was as big of a malfeasance as the GOP made it out to be they would still be going after her now. Funny how all those investigations seemed to stop. Lock her up indeed...

Half the country got fleeced by a con man and now they are so upset about it they are going to convince themselves it didnt happen and there is a method to the madness. Happens all the time...rose colored glasses and all.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

I am not saying he will go against him about everything but he isnt going to let Trump has his way with Unconstitutional Measures just because they belong to the same party.

We can't make that assumption, unfortunately. All this means is he won't weaken judicial review, which is after all the power base of the judiciary. For all we know he intends to abuse judicial review in the same way that Thomas, Alito, Scalia and to a lesser extent Kennedy and Roberts have to ram through an activist partisan agenda under cover of a judicial "philosophy."

Gorsuch is by all accounts Scalia II, and Scalia was a master at promoting an activist agenda to reinterpret the Constitution all the while denying it. About the best we can expect from Gorsuch is he'll do the same but with less snark.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

Half the country got fleeced by a con man and now they are so upset about it they are going to convince themselves it didnt happen and there is a method to the madness.

That's the power of the successful con man. His followers can't admit to themselves they've been conned because it would upset their whole world view where they know "the truth" and everybody who has been telling them they've been conned just isn't virtuous enough to have been let in on The Secret Knowledge, so they double down and delude themselves even deeper. c.f. Scientology, supply side economics, and every televangelist in history.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

We can't make that assumption, unfortunately. All this means is he won't weaken judicial review, which is after all the power base of the judiciary. For all we know he intends to abuse judicial review in the same way that Thomas, Alito, Scalia and to a lesser extent Kennedy and Roberts have to ram through an activist partisan agenda under cover of a judicial "philosophy."

Gorsuch is by all accounts Scalia II, and Scalia was a master at promoting an activist agenda to reinterpret the Constitution all the while denying it. About the best we can expect from Gorsuch is he'll do the same but with less snark.

You keep saying that but what evidence do you have to back it up. Just because he is a strict constitutionalist doesnt mean he is an activist or that he is partisan. You assume because the GOP put him up that he is some Reactionary but you also make the mistake of believing Trump vetted this guy at all. I Think This Article Is Worth a Read

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

Put it this way...if the HRC Email Tragedy was as big of a malfeasance as the GOP made it out to be they would still be going after her now. Funny how all those investigations seemed to stop. Lock her up indeed...

I hate to continue beating this Drum but their dream came true. They had her under oath, testifying in front of Congress. To add to the list below if you are under oath in front of Congress you can't lie either. 10 hours of testimony. 10 hours.

They got NOTHING. It was an embarrassment. If anything the American people (if they were smart, instead they're stupid) should have elected her on that basis alone.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

That's the power of the successful con man. His followers can't admit to themselves they've been conned because it would upset their whole world view where they know "the truth" and everybody who has been telling them they've been conned just isn't virtuous enough to have been let in on The Secret Knowledge, so they double down and delude themselves even deeper. c.f. Scientology, supply side economics, and every televangelist in history.

Yeah my BIL is like that. My sister thinks everyone is lying when they say he ripped them off and lies about everything. Meanwhile I lost five grand, my entire family barely talks to her (extended and parents) and the only friends they have are hers because he destroys everything he touches. She has deluded herself into thinking the world is wrong and he is right. One day she will learn...

 

[unofan]

but he isnt going to let Trump has his way with Unconstitutional Measures just because they belong to the same party.

We can hope. But being the best nominee we could have hoped for from a Trump administration is still far from an assurance that what you say is true.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

You keep saying that but what evidence do you have to back it up.

The flimsiest of all: that 538 said he's a Scalia clone. I would feel much better reading a full treatment by say SCOTUSBlog. But even so, Supremes do change once they join The Court. Typically for the better, but that isn't an iron law.

Like marriage, we're not going to really know until, well, we know.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

All this because a 3 star General and veteran of the DIA couldnt be bothered to make a secure call when he tipped off the Russians they werent going to be sanctioned for very long...most likely at the behest of Donald.

He, as a civilian at the time, probably didn't have access to a secure line.

As a former DIA guy he should've known to just "happen to cross paths" outside the mens room in a (too loud to bug) posh DC restaurant. -- "Oh, excuse me. Sorry, got your back. < nod-wink > See ya around."

Is tradecraft dead?
ELINT sucks.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

I hate to continue beating this Drum but their dream came true. They had her under oath, testifying in front of Congress. To add to the list below if you are under oath in front of Congress you can't lie either. 10 hours of testimony. 10 hours.

They got NOTHING. It was an embarrassment. If anything the American people (if they were smart, instead they're stupid) should have elected her on that basis alone.

Ah but Scooby dont you see...to the average American her having to testify PROVES she is guilty. It was the confirmation bias of all confirmation bias.

Think about it...it is no different than what they did to her husband. The GOP had an open checkbook and a Special Prosecutor with an itch to one day have even more power. They had dozens of "scandals" and shady dealings to look into including affairs...hell they had him impeached...and in the end they proved what exactly? The President got a blow job from a fat chick in the Oval Office and lied about it. Yet still to this day people believe in Travelgate and Whitewater and the Vince Foster Conspiracy BS and so on. The accusation and investigation proves the guilt...the fact that nothing was proven just shows how truly shady the Clintons are!!!

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

Ah but Scooby dont you see...to the average American her having to testify PROVES she is guilty. It was the confirmation bias of all confirmation bias.

Think about it...it is no different than what they did to her husband. The GOP had an open checkbook and a Special Prosecutor with an itch to one day have even more power. They had dozens of "scandals" and shady dealings to look into including affairs...hell they had him impeached...and in the end they proved what exactly? The President got a blow job from a fat chick in the Oval Office and lied about it. Yet still to this day people believe in Travelgate and Whitewater and the Vince Foster Conspiracy BS and so on. The accusation and investigation proves the guilt...the fact that nothing was proven just shows how truly shady the Clintons are!!!

People are DUMB. Dumb dumb dumb dumb. She destroyed them.