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POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

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Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
Opposition to bigotry is not bigotry. This lame attempt at the tu quoque fallacy, is literally one of the oldest go-tos in the right wing playbook.
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When you use bigotry to oppose the bigotry is where the issue lies. It's entirely possible to do it peacefully, which I'm fairly certain all of us are for. When you're whistling into a microphone or covering a camera with a sign so a journalist covering your event can't do his/her job, that's when the bigotry comes around, and is exactly what happens at Antifa events. Infowars may be popular yet be seen as controversial, and they might challenge your points with questions, but they're giving you something that many other outlets won't give: a chance to redress your grievances and what you actually want.

This is one of the reasons I respect the OWS person that demanded a salary floor of $15/hr and ceiling at $90/hr: The person actually knew what was wanted, and voiced it. I had some challenges to it, so I asked the questions in a forum because I didn't know the person directly. That's how you actually make progress. People might not like Trump for tweeting, but he actually follows through on what he tweets, even if he has a discussion and finds that what he suggests might not be the best idea. You want to challenge his ideas? Let's hear what about it doesn't work, and maybe we can actually get somewhere.
 
Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

The Sicatoka said:
No, folks are just realizing the two "Parties" we have are really just two sides of one bad penny. They are Party first, foremost, and always.
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This just isn't true. And, it's mentally deficient thinking like this that gets propagated to stupid people that helps people like Trump get elected. You want to change the system? Get involved with one of the existing parties. You want to destroy the United States? Get in with Stein, Johnson, and Nader.

Change can happen at the party level if you want it. They're just people. Bernie RAN his campaign as a Democrat for a reason. He got WAY WAY WAY more votes doing it that way then if he had run as an independent where he would've been destroyed. Follow Bernie's lead and not Sic's. Sic's just give us more Trump.
 
Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

The Sicatoka said:
No, folks are just realizing the two "Parties" we have are really just two sides of one bad penny. They are Party first, foremost, and always.
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Both parties currently serve the 1%. But there is still a big difference.

The GOP Mission Statement is to serve the 1%. It's all it exists for. To the extent the GOP gets stronger, inequality grows, the middle class shrinks, and the vast majority of Americans lose their economic and civil rights. There is no cure.

The Democratic Party has become infected by the 1%, due to the bribery that is our electioneering system. The party fundamentally recognizes that the key to prosperity is the growth of the middle class, not the rich. If we were able to remove bribery from our campaign funding we would at least have a theoretical opportunity to reclaim the Democratic party as a force for growing the middle class, reducing inequality, and curtailing the plutocracy. There is a cure.

The Dems have a head cold. The Republicans are cholera.
 
Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

Kepler said:
No, this is nonsense. There are Antifa splinters that are violent, and they are wrong, but as a whole Antifa is doing the right thing.

The attacks on Antifa are the same right wing crank attacks on BLM.

The great irony is you seem to be sincere in trying to defeat the forces that are holding most people back, and yet you attack groups like Antifa and BLM who are On. Your. Side.

The 1% are using racial and social cues to get you to turn on people who could be your friends. (They are doing exactly the same thing to our side in attacking righty-leaning poor.) Divide and conquer is how they manage to maintain control in an ostensible democratic system.

You are doing their bidding and falling for their bullsh-t. The narratives of liberation that you deliver here were written by the very people you are trying to defeat, in order to prevent the right and left 99% from marrying up and overwhelming our mutual slavemasters.
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Black Lives Matter is, in the definition of its title, racially motivated. I gave them a chance. Then when all they did was regurgitate the x-on-black things the mainstream pushed, and not any black-on-x crimes, they exposed themselves. If they'd like to become reasonable, I'm all ears. Until such time, they're the ones dividing on racial lines.

As for Antifa, guess who funds them? George Soros. One of those 1%ers you just talked about. What they're doing is planning and executing violent events. They want to actually talk about anti-fascism? I'm all ears. And the funny thing is: Donald Trump is one of the least fascist leaders we've had in years, and actually cares about the Constitution and the desire for motivated people to thrive. He wants to give a hand up, not a handout.
 
Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

ScoobyDoo said:
This just isn't true. And, it's mentally deficient thinking like this that gets propagated to stupid people that helps people like Trump get elected. You want to change the system? Get involved with one of the existing parties. You want to destroy the United States? Get in with Stein, Johnson, and Nader.

Change can happen at the party level if you want it. They're just people. Bernie RAN his campaign as a Democrat for a reason. He got WAY WAY WAY more votes doing it that way then if he had run as an independent where he would've been destroyed. Follow Bernie's lead and not Sic's. Sic's just give us more Trump.
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After what I witnessed happen in 2009 and 2017 from both sides, it is 100% true. And guess who did exactly what you suggested? Donald Trump. He is FAR from the conservative republican we've seen in the past few decades, especially if you look at his actual beliefs, even before he ran for office.
 
Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

Kepler said:
Both parties currently serve the 1%. But there is still a big difference.

The GOP Mission Statement is to serve the 1%. It's all it exists for. To the extent the GOP gets stronger, inequality grows, the middle class shrinks, and the vast majority of Americans lose their economic and civil rights. There is no cure.

The Democratic Party has become infected by the 1%, due to the bribery that is our electioneering system. The party fundamentally recognizes that the key to prosperity is the growth of the middle class, not the rich. If we were able to remove bribery from our campaign funding we would at least have a theoretical opportunity to reclaim the Democratic party as a force for growing the middle class, reducing inequality, and curtailing the plutocracy. There is a cure.

The Dems have a head cold. The Republicans are cholera.
Click to expand...

If the Democrats actually believed that, then why have they been pushing corporatist policies, such as the PPACA, that destroy the middle class and expand the welfare state, only for the 1% to be enabled to then cut off welfare when they feel like it? Socialism stops working when you run out of other people's money.
 
The Sicatoka said:
No, folks are just realizing the two "Parties" we have are really just two sides of one bad penny. They are Party first, foremost, and always.

They will do whatever necessary to keep the power. That includes creating "wedge issues" to keep the "sides" internally at conflict as a distraction from the UniParty keeping on keeping on what it does: accumulate and keep power for itself and it's top few (Schumer, McConnell, Pelosi, Ryan).

Outsider Bernie? The DNC backstabbed him. Outsider Trump? The Rs, "his party", are leaving him out in the cold.

UniParty first, foremost, and always. All others shall be shunned ... or worse.
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No, Bernie lost, and Trump is damaging himself more than anyone else could.

But keep on keeping on with the BSAB shtick.
 
Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

FlagDUDE08 said:
Black Lives Matter is, in the definition of its title, racially motivated. I gave them a chance. Then when all they did was regurgitate the x-on-black things the mainstream pushed, and not any black-on-x crimes, they exposed themselves. If they'd like to become reasonable, I'm all ears. Until such time, they're the ones dividing on racial lines.

As for Antifa, guess who funds them? George Soros. One of those 1%ers you just talked about. What they're doing is planning and executing violent events. They want to actually talk about anti-fascism? I'm all ears. And the funny thing is: Donald Trump is one of the least fascist leaders we've had in years, and actually cares about the Constitution and the desire for motivated people to thrive. He wants to give a hand up, not a handout.
Click to expand...

On BLM you're wrong. Read their site. Talk to their members face to face.

On Antifa, I think you're wrong, but it's hard to generalize about something so amorphous. It can't help that your info seems to come from sources like InfoWars which are a joke.

On Trump, I just can't help you. If that is really the way you see him all I can say is we live in two non-adjacent universes.
 
Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

FlagDUDE08 said:
If the Democrats actually believed that, then why have they been pushing corporatist policies, such as the PPACA, that destroy the middle class and expand the welfare state, only for the 1% to be enabled to then cut off welfare when they feel like it? Socialism stops working when you run out of other people's money.
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None of that criticism makes any sense. Are you telling me the 1% is behind social assistance? The 1% invented the William Sumner robber-baron language you spew here all the time.

All I can say is start from the beginning and take courses and read books about the way the 1% tried to take complete control of the US twice before, after the Civil War and then again during the Lochner Era, and how we defeated them both times with socialist policies. Educate yourself about how unfettered capitalism destroys the free market and makes everyone a serf to the very few at the top of the pyramid. That's the way the world really works. The hundreds of millions, if not billions, of dollars that the 1% has poured into fake think tanks and seeding Rands books in the public libraries and building an Echo Chamber to imprison you in, has just been an investment strategy to turn your anger at the unfairness of our economic system against your own best interests. The conspiracy exists in fact: and it created the fake conspiracy you believe in not just to knock you off their track but to make you work for them.

Those instincts you have that something isn't right are correct, and you should listen to them. But the call is coming from inside the house.
 
Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

Kepler said:
On BLM you're wrong. Read their site. Talk to their members face to face.

On Antifa, I think you're wrong, but it's hard to generalize about something so amorphous. It can't help that your info seems to come from sources like InfoWars which are a joke.

On Trump, I just can't help you. If that is really the way you see him all I can say is we live in two non-adjacent universes.
Click to expand...

Come on, you know better. While he's literally drinking down Alex Jones' crap, he's also listening to it, and just regurgitating it. It does appear that some of it is mixing together as it comes back out, though.

What's sad about BLM is that they have a real point- that police do stuff to them in a MUCH higher percentage, for no obvious reason for it. They are jailed at a much higher rate, they are suspended from school for a much higher rate. etc etc etc.

But as soon as some splinter group wants to go an "abuse whitey"- that give the excuse to the lack of thinkers that they can ignore those grievances.

It's stunning to hear a Michigan State Police officer pass on a accusational FB post to NFL kneelers, when the POLICE ARE PART OF THE PROTEST TARGET! If anything, that's clearly an example of why protests still need to go on- the people who should be hearing it are ones complaining about the protest. duh.
 
Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

Kepler said:
None of that criticism makes any sense. Are you telling me the 1% is behind social assistance? The 1% invented the William Sumner robber-baron language you spew here all the time.

All I can say is start from the beginning and take courses and read books about the way the 1% tried to take complete control of the US twice before, after the Civil War and then again during the Lochner Era, and how we defeated them both times with socialist policies. Educate yourself about how unfettered capitalism destroys the free market and makes everyone a serf to the very few at the top of the pyramid. That's the way the world really works. The hundreds of millions, if not billions, of dollars that the 1% has poured into fake think tanks and seeding Rands books in the public libraries and building an Echo Chamber to imprison you in, has just been an investment strategy to turn your anger at the unfairness of our economic system against your own best interests. The conspiracy exists in fact: and it created the fake conspiracy you believe in not just to knock you off their track but to make you work for them.

Those instincts you have that something isn't right are correct, and you should listen to them. But the call is coming from inside the house.
Click to expand...

I am telling you this, yes. They understood that the human mind is not only fickle and easily manipulated, but inherently lazy, and will use the path of least resistance to achieve any goal. They want to make people dependent on an overlord for everything. They'll make a satisfaction promise in return for your liberties and choices. They've tried in many different forms throughout the years, whether through religions, serfdom, terrorism, welfare, the list goes on and on. Once people realize they don't have to be slaves to these overlords, and they can actually live a happy life through taking responsibility for hard work, that's when the true enlightenment period came about. That's the Renaissance. That's the creation of America. That's Brexit. That's what we're seeing today across the world.
 
Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

Gurtholfin said:
Brent... I believe that you meant Lefty Circle Jerk. That's what this thread often is.
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It has been for some time and that wasn't necessarily a bad thing. What's changed is that now, unless you're in the circle, you are the Bukaki(?sp) target
 
Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

alfablue said:
Come on, you know better. While he's literally drinking down Alex Jones' crap, he's also listening to it, and just regurgitating it. It does appear that some of it is mixing together as it comes back out, though.

What's sad about BLM is that they have a real point- that police do stuff to them in a MUCH higher percentage, for no obvious reason for it. They are jailed at a much higher rate, they are suspended from school for a much higher rate. etc etc etc.

But as soon as some splinter group wants to go an "abuse whitey"- that give the excuse to the lack of thinkers that they can ignore those grievances.

It's stunning to hear a Michigan State Police officer pass on a accusational FB post to NFL kneelers, when the POLICE ARE PART OF THE PROTEST TARGET! If anything, that's clearly an example of why protests still need to go on- the people who should be hearing it are ones complaining about the protest. duh.
Click to expand...

Funny thing is, if you take a look at actual crimes, they commit a heck of a lot more. That's the obvious reason. If you want to promote social justice for them, how about improving their family structure? How about not constantly going after them with Planned Parenthood, STDs in vaccines that are pushed on them, and other barrages? The people you think are attacking them are the ones that are actually trying to give them a chance to advance in life, while the democrats want them stupid, poor, and dependent, and then just give them stuff in return for votes so that even more liberties can be destroyed.
 
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