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POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

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Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

She would just shake her finger at them at say, "Bad North Korea" and toss more sanctions. Not saying that's a bad thing, just saying that there is no way she'd threaten with military action.

Nor should she (we) really threaten them with military action. All Pol Kim Pot has is to play the strongman card, and threaten the US. He established that as his rhetoric from the get go, and if he deviates from it he looks weak to his people. His only move is escalation, and at some point Trumpf could buffoon us into an actual shooting war with a mad man who very well could launch a nuke attack as Seoul.
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

So you expect a parent to subject their kid to something they think is unreasonable? They are still getting all the shots, so what's the problem doing it a little differently?

at least yours are getting all the shots. The problem is people with no medical training whatsoever think they are experts and have any clue what is reasonable/unreasonable.
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

They have done a lot of research on this. You actually have a better immune response when the body is confronted with more. Example you give adults Tetanus with Diptheria because it augments the response to Tetanus. The only live vaccines that are 'live' are MMR and varicella (chickenpox). The rest you are giving the equivilent of an empty shell to show the body what it should respond to. You give the immunizations early because the immune response happens but to have sustained response you need to remind the body. Many parents delay or stagger vaccines but there is absolutely no evidence to show it makes any difference except for make the parents happy. We don't have a very good record system or compliance in the country as a whole (Red states suck at this, esp down south). In countries with robust healthcare systems with standardized record keeping they have huge cohorts to get data from and it just doesn't play out.

There is no evidence at all that shows triggers from vaccines, no matter if a person is predisposed. As someone who did pedi for close to 30 yrs the observation I would make is Autism becomes more easily evident at around 15-18 months when you would expect the baby to be more interactive (the same time MMR is given). If you ask closely you usually will find that the baby has been 'off' from very early on but the parents just thought it was their baby's personality. They don't like to be cuddled, they weren't easily soothed, they didn't make eye contact or would only do so briefly, etc. There is also a strong genetic component. This means you have families that think behavior that is on the Spectrum is normal until it is diagnosed- usually when they don't meet markers that look at social cues- imitation, engagement with surroundings, etc

in my extended family we have a kid dx with autism. When he was around 18 months the mother thought something was not right. Trip to the Pedi and they suggested hearing problems, ADHD (person who said this was an idiot). They had a party and the grandmother grabbed me as we walked into the house and asked me to look at the kid. Huge party. The kid was in the middle not paying attention to any of it. It took me 2 seconds to say oh-oh. Long story short- the father was also dx. The father's mother couldn't understand why he had a dx. When you looked at the family there were 3 generations of people with the same personality traits. To them it was completely normal. They all thought the kid with autism was 'fine'. So how many people do we have who think their kid is normal because they don't know what normal is and miss cues until they are glaringly evident?

If a parent goes through this and sees it all play out, would you honestly expect them to go through the exact same steps again without changing anything? I'm sorry but it still seems too coincidental about the MMR. Again, I clearly state that I do not think MMR causes autism. But there has to be something that hasn't been studied yet, otherwise they would know the cause. I have my own theories but stating them here would only invite a flurry of attacks on me, as you can see may have started.

You're saying that parents are missing cues and the rate is actually even higher that it is now? Even with the huge explosion of cases? Maybe but that is typically people on the higher end of the spectrum where they can function at a more close to "normal" level.
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

at least yours are getting all the shots. The problem is people with no medical training whatsoever think they are experts and have any clue what is reasonable/unreasonable.

Thank you.

You are never going to be rid of clueless people. Just look around this board. :cool: Or even clueless medical professionals. That's unfortunately how the world is. But it can be done right where everyone is comfortable and kept safe. I know this and I've lived it.
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

Nor should she (we) really threaten them with military action. All Pol Kim Pot has is to play the strongman card, and threaten the US. He established that as his rhetoric from the get go, and if he deviates from it he looks weak to his people. His only move is escalation, and at some point Trumpf could buffoon us into an actual shooting war with a mad man who very well could launch a nuke attack as Seoul.

It's nuclear chicken. Similar to the Cold War (which we are now resuming).
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

No, we aren't. Leaders in the Cold War were smart enough not to push the d@mn button.

Putin is smart enough not to. Trump is too dumb to actually do it (and if he tried, his colleagues would stop it).

Edit: his colleagues would point out some ragtag article ripping Trump and Trump would be captivated by that. Sorta like jingling car keys in front of someone who has ADD
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

Gee, I wonder how Trump's going to spin the jobs numbers now?

Tard.
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

Thank you.

You are never going to be rid of clueless people. Just look around this board. :cool: Or even clueless medical professionals. That's unfortunately how the world is. But it can be done right where everyone is comfortable and kept safe. I know this and I've lived it.

I think one of the points is that medical professionals are in the best position to keep vaccine recipients safe. A parent's gut feeling is much less useful (I wouldn't be surprised if it's of exactly zero use) for identifying the safest way to administer vaccines.

I do understand the point about wanting fewer vaccines at once though. I think it makes more sense to advocate for that not from a child safety standpoint (because there's no basis for that), but from a parents' sanity standpoint. I know we've had to keep our kids out of daycare for several days after vaccines because of persistent low level fevers. There's probably less research being done about how the mild side effects of vaccines depend on the number given at a time, since it's not really a safety issue.
 
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Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

Nor should she (we) really threaten them with military action. All Pol Kim Pot has is to play the strongman card, and threaten the US. He established that as his rhetoric from the get go, and if he deviates from it he looks weak to his people. His only move is escalation, and at some point Trumpf could buffoon us into an actual shooting war with a mad man who very well could launch a nuke attack as Seoul.

The sole thing Kim has to do to survive is ensure his military continues to live well. The North Korean innocent population is so debased our plutes pleasure themselves dreaming of it.

He protects and enhances his military's monopoly of resources by constantly pounding home the existential threat of The Enemy. (I'm talking about Kim. Confusion is understandable.) That's the traditional way to maintain highly unjust distribution of resources, going all the war back to the Mesopotamian and Mycenaean warlords. (It works best when you mix in the gods as a warrant, hence the evergreen political use of priests.) Kim needs to go up to the line but the instant he crosses it everything collapses.

Trump and Kim are using each other right now to leverage their own populations. A real war would be awful for either.
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

Trump and Kim are using each other right now to leverage their own populations. A real war would be awful for either.

Correct. Both are peacocking to their nations. And the minions are eating it up. I believe (and hope) nothing will actually happen. This is just one big bro-down.
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

We have a reasonable basis for our opinions. If you have one, please by all means share it.

Trump is a loose canon and an unknown. There is no "basis" for any opinion on this matter. He does whatever the hell he wants.
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

So you expect a parent to subject their kid to something they think is unreasonable? They are still getting all the shots, so what's the problem doing it a little differently?



Really? Come on man.
As Wisco said the shot schedule is tailored to get the best immune response for the vaccine. You can separate them but they work better the way they are scheduled.

If a parent goes through this and sees it all play out, would you honestly expect them to go through the exact same steps again without changing anything? I'm sorry but it still seems too coincidental about the MMR. Again, I clearly state that I do not think MMR causes autism. But there has to be something that hasn't been studied yet, otherwise they would know the cause. I have my own theories but stating them here would only invite a flurry of attacks on me, as you can see may have started.

You're saying that parents are missing cues and the rate is actually even higher that it is now? Even with the huge explosion of cases? Maybe but that is typically people on the higher end of the spectrum where they can function at a more close to "normal" level.
https://www.google.com/search?q=BJM...rome..69i57.6248j1j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 Look into it a little bit. There are many kids who are diagnosed at other times. Unfortunately what you are saying is the exact thing they foind when they tried to educate people regarding the scientific facts about vaccines. Once you have the idea in your head it is harmful it is very hard, no matter how much evidence you see, to get it out. THe more someone tries to show you evidence the worse the idea is fixated. Same mechanism as phobias. You can grasp the concept but the instinctual reaction trumps it.

I am saying that with current screening (in Mass it is required for pedi well visits) is capturing things that previously high functioning people on the Spectrum missed in their kids. They redefined the criteria and subsequently redefined it again so IMHO you can't really compare numbers.

OUr family members are very active in the National Autism groups- all of them refute MMR as a contributing factor.

I think one of the points is that medical professionals are in the best position to keep vaccine recipients safe. A parent's gut feeling is much less useful (I wouldn't be surprised if it's of exactly zero use) for identifying the safest way to administer vaccines.

I do understand the point about wanting fewer vaccines at once though. I think it makes more sense to advocate for that not from a child safety standpoint (because there's no basis for that), but from a parents' sanity standpoint. I know we've had to keep our kids out of daycare for several days after vaccines because of persistent low level fevers. There's probably less research being done about how the mild side effects of vaccines depend on the number given at a time, since it's not really a safety issue.
Actually they have done research on this. The low grade fever is an indication that the immune system is fired up and doing its job. Kids used to get fever with vaccines. Now they get them a bit more but overall the safety of vaccines is actually improved. When I first was in practice they had live polio which is now not live. They also have changed the pertussis to an attenuated version- much less risk/side effects.

As to the exposure to multiple things at once- they are doing really cool research in Sweden regarding childhood immunity. Turns out the kids who have less exposure to things as infants actually have significantly more issues with allergies, asthma, food intolerances and sickness than the kids who are more exposed. So the parents who flip out anytime their kids touches something less than sterile are actually making risk for problems much worse. ONe of the studies compared people who used dishwashers vs hand washing (those evil sponge germs!!). Kids who had hand washed dishes actually did much better. Theory being they are exposed to things young and allowed to build a robust immune system when it is supposed to be developed. https://www.google.com/search?q=exp...j69i57j0l4.13823j1j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Posted Search links so you can pick and chose what source you trust
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

Trump is a loose canon and an unknown. There is no "basis" for any opinion on this matter. He does whatever the hell he wants.

I think you're forgetting all the other checks and balances in play.

A lot of the things he's wanted so far haven't really happened. They are logjammed in the system.....
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

I think you're forgetting all the other checks and balances in play.

A lot of the things he's wanted so far haven't really happened. They are logjammed in the system.....

He has the codes. He is the Commander in Chief. Try to stop him. Some things have more checks and balances than others. AND some of the things that have been blocked have come back in other ways (Travel Ban).
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

He has the codes. He is the Commander in Chief. Try to stop him. Some things have more checks and balances than others. AND some of the things that have been blocked have come back in other ways (Travel Ban).

Re: travel ban: That's why I said a lot, not all. :)

And yeah, I think he'd be stopped by quite a few people.
 
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