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POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

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Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/26/opinion/abbie-hoffman-donald-trump.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Day by day Trump is turning us into a nation of different planets. Each planet feels more righteous about itself and is more isolated from and offended by the other planets.

The members of the educated class saw this past weekend’s N.F.L. fracas as a fight over racism. They felt mobilized and unified in that fight and full of righteous energy. Members of the working class saw the fracas as a fight about American identity. They saw Pittsburgh Steelers coach Mike Tomlin try to dissuade Alejandro Villanueva, a three-time combat veteran, from celebrating the flag he risked his life for. Members of this class also felt mobilized, unified and full of righteous energy.

I don’t know which planet is bigger, or which would win an election, but that frankly doesn’t matter. All that matters is that Trump is shredding the culture and ending the dominance of the meritocratic establishment.
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Really need to read the whole thing to understand it. But this article more than any teaches the lesson of 2016.
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

ScoobyDoo said:
http://www.npr.org/2017/09/27/55386...s-tax-cut-democrats-see-windfall-for-the-rich

Let the giveaway to the rich continue. Everything about the new Paul Ryan/Trump tax proposal is WRONG. WRONG WRONG WRONG. Brownback didn't have balls this big.
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Well that is already a dead plan. No chance it passes unless they change at least half of it.

They better hope they find a way to get it in fast because if not the midterms will be about their failure on Health Care and this tax reform.
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

Handyman said:
Well that is already a dead plan. No chance it passes unless they change at least half of it.

They better hope they find a way to get it in fast because if not the midterms will be about their failure on Health Care and this tax reform.
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As I understand it this is another reconciliation bill and, also, I don't agree it doesn't pass. They only need Republicans and there isn't a single thing in it a Republican would vote against.
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

ScoobyDoo said:
As I understand it this is another reconciliation bill and, also, I don't agree it doesn't pass. They only need Republicans and there isn't a single thing in it a Republican would vote against.
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It is not revenue neutral so the Byrd Rule applies. It isnt gospel but it is a problem.

And the voters know all about this stuff, that is why 4 months ago when Graham brought it up at a rally he was booed off the stage and they chanted "your last term". Just like the electorate (even the Red Ones) got educated on Health Care they arent blind to what this is...
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

Handyman said:
It is not revenue neutral so the Byrd Rule applies. It isnt gospel but it is a problem.

And the voters know all about this stuff, that is why 4 months ago when Graham brought it up at a rally he was booed off the stage and they chanted "your last term". Just like the electorate (even the Red Ones) got educated on Health Care they arent blind to what this is...
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You didn't read the fine print. It is revenue neutral if they make the necessary cuts from the budget.
 
BassAle said:
stupid republicans

i'm going to come out and say that I probably don't pay enough taxes. Yes, some stupid righty will say "there is nothing stopping you from cutting a check and sending it to the U.S. treasury". Well instead of doing that, I contribute to multiple conservation organizations (Friends of Katahdin Woods and Waters National Monument, Natural Resources Council of Maine, Maine Coast Heritage Trust, Downeast Lakes Land Trust, Maine Farmland Trust, Access Fund, etc), which I view as additional tax that I _need_ to pay. I'd have no problem paying additional federal taxes on top of this, but only if that is combined with a massive reduction in defense spending. Having a few people volunteer to do so isn't going to fix it, everyone needs to pay more (well, maybe not everyone, but at lest anyone making over 100K). Even proposing tax cuts is irresponsible right now.
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Considering we have been $500B plus in the hole each year for the last 15 years I would strongly agree with you. We should try to cut some expenses as well.

Some excellent charities you are donating to, well done.
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

ScoobyDoo said:
You didn't read the fine print. It is revenue neutral if they make the necessary cuts from the budget.
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The cuts have to come though, they cant just say they will. That is why Obamacare needed to be repealed BEFORE taxes. There isnt enough time to cut the needed stuff (and boy howdy will there be a war when they try and cut the wrong things) and pass such a sweeping tax reform.

And by the way there is no guarantee the GOP stays home. There is no loyalty right now and since Trump is backing the plan it doubles the issue. If you are a Senator or Rep in a vulnerable district you have the same issue with this as you did with Health Care.
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

Handyman said:
The cuts have to come though, they cant just say they will. That is why Obamacare needed to be repealed BEFORE taxes. There isnt enough time to cut the needed stuff (and boy howdy will there be a war when they try and cut the wrong things) and pass such a sweeping tax reform.

And by the way there is no guarantee the GOP stays home. There is no loyalty right now and since Trump is backing the plan it doubles the issue. If you are a Senator or Rep in a vulnerable district you have the same issue with this as you did with Health Care.
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Nope. Americans still want Obamacre repealed. They still don't know it's the Affordable Care Act. They also don't know that the GOP is preventing it from being a good law by preventing any tweaks to it from occurring.

Those same people will see "tax cut" as money in their pocket and they won't care if Warren Buffett gets a windfall.

Democrats need to start lying to people cause they're too dumb to learn the truth.
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

At this point I don't know if the GOP Congress could pass a bill declaring that rain is wet.

Regarding taxes, who the hell knows. There's blood in the water after the healthcare debacle to sniff out any plan that smacks of a giveaway to the rich at the expense of everyone else. That's exactly that Weasel Paul Ryan and Itch want to do. I kinda doubt the Duck Dynasty crowd (aside from maybe the dude himself) is really clamoring for cutting the top tier tax rate and corp tax rate in half. :rolleyes: I'd also say Collins and Murkowski don't have a ton of reasons to vote for it as their states aren't exactly teeming with the uber-rich. Can Itch maintain discipline amongst the other 50 including loons like Moore-Paul-Cruz? Don't know, but McConnell hasn't exactly been hitting it out of the park lately. ;)
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

More stupidity.

With Democrats across the country energized by the election of Mr. Trump, some analysts say Democrats now have an outside chance to pick up the seat — even in a deeply conservative state like Alabama. But if Mr. Moore wins, he will almost certainly be a wild card in the Senate, where Mr. McConnell is already struggling to keep his majority of 52 Republicans in line.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/27/...e-race-he-lost.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

If any Democrat Organization, etc. spends money in Alabama thinking they could win like they did in Georgia they've learned NOTHING.
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

ScoobyDoo said:
More stupidity.



https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/27/...e-race-he-lost.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

If any Democrat Organization, etc. spends money in Alabama thinking they could win like they did in Georgia they've learned NOTHING.
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Think of it this way Scoobs. Dems need to go all out to turn out their (read: non-white and college aged) supporters. That's like 30-40% of the voters. Hence a big loss usually. Beyond that, you're just going to have to hope enough Republicans don't want to be embarrassed by the guy on a daily basis and vote for your candidate. That's out of the Dems hands, but organizing and GOTV in friendly areas is not. Is that likely? No not at all but doing nothing equals a loss anyway so there's nothing to lose. There's a reason why Todd Akin and Richard Murdoch aren't in the Senate right now. Its because Republican voters turned around and voted for the Democrat instead of being stuck with them. Might as well give it a go.
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

Rover said:
Think of it this way Scoobs. Dems need to go all out to turn out their (read: non-white and college aged) supporters. That's like 30-40% of the voters. Hence a big loss usually. Beyond that, you're just going to have to hope enough Republicans don't want to be embarrassed by the guy on a daily basis and vote for your candidate. That's out of the Dems hands, but organizing and GOTV in friendly areas is not. Is that likely? No not at all but doing nothing equals a loss anyway so there's nothing to lose. There's a reason why Todd Akin and Richard Murdoch aren't in the Senate right now. Its because Republican voters turned around and voted for the Democrat instead of being stuck with them. Might as well give it a go.
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Todd Akin would have won that race going away if Claire McCaskill hadn't been the opponent. Doug Jones is no Claire McCaskill.
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

Senate Republicans are sticking to their plans to pass a tax bill with 50 Republican votes, despite Democratic pleas not to be sidelined as they were on health care.

Majority Leader Mitch McConnell on Tuesday reaffirmed the GOP’s long-standing intention to shield any tax overhaul from a likely Democratic filibuster by using the procedural protections of budget reconciliation.

In explaining his decision to reporters, the Kentucky Republican cited a Tuesday letter from 45 Democratic senators urging Republicans not to use reconciliation and vowing to oppose a tax plan that adds to the deficit or cuts the annual bill of the richest 1 percent of taxpayers.

“We will need to use reconciliation” for taxes in the wake of Democrats’ statement that they are “not interested in addressing” Republican priorities, McConnell said.
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http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/01/mitch-mcconnell-tax-bill-gop-votes-241212

This is from a while ago but it shows the plan.

And if not that with Mitch being powerless they may just decide to kill the filibuster which Kepler is full steam ahead on.
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

ScoobyDoo said:
Todd Akin would have won that race going away if Claire McCaskill hadn't been the opponent. Doug Jones is no Claire McCaskill.
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True enough, but again I don't think you can just sit back and hope Moore self-destructs. He's favored to win either way. Might as well engage and go all out.
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

ScoobyDoo said:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...eory-hogwash-bruce-bartlett-column/704464001/

No new ideas on Health Care. No new ideas on Taxes. That entire party is worthless and destroying the United States.
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The Republican Party since 1978 has been the most successful criminal enterprise in American history. The only thing to rival them in world history has been the Russian Oligarchs. It is no surprise they are now allies.
 
Re: POTUS 45.20 - Doddering Dotards Dodging Detente

ScoobyDoo said:
More stupidity.



https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/27/...e-race-he-lost.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

If any Democrat Organization, etc. spends money in Alabama thinking they could win like they did in Georgia they've learned NOTHING.
Click to expand...

It's Alabama, there is no way Moore loses this race. Having said that, I still think they need to spend money in Alabama. It's going to take a generation to make any progress, but they need to promote Democrat ideals and support the candidates, even in a republican hellhole like Alabama. Over time they may start to make some gains at the local level, and eventually things will be less of a blow-out for statewide/national elections (but I doubt you and I will ever see another Democrat win a statewide race in our lifetime).
 
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