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POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

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Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

As Don Corleone said, "It's business, not personal." tD is Sonny. He needs to be Michael.

I will ask my acquaintances on the left - When is the Coup? That's where you're headed and is that what you want?

Define "coup." Resignation (ha!) or impeachment? Yes, though the options that follow are not very appealing.

Do you want this president to keep doing what his is doing for another 4 years?
 
Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

Imagine Flag et al. if this was Obama. :eek:

You may have been right about the death camps, Flag. Just wrong about the party. :p
 
Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

Except that don has already stated that the Christians in Iraq will get special priority to get into the US. As if their struggle is more than the opposing sides within Islam.

None the less, that statement, as well as Giuliani pointing out that they need to have a legal way to prevent Mulsims from getting in- don't be a fool and pretend that this is not a ban on Islam.

If it were really about safety, we'd be banning people from Saudi Arabia- since that's the source country for a gross majority of American's who have been killed at the hands of terrorists.

Facts. They are not facts- they are made up just to get his own way.

Besides, what in the world are you so afraid of that we need this travel restriction?? More Americans will die in car accidents TODAY than the last two terrorist actions in the US combined. More Americans will die this month due to preventable diseases that a better health care system will cover than all Americans who died at the hands of terrorists.

If we are really interested in saving American lives, our efforts are totally misplaced based on how people die.

This has probably already been posted in this thread somewhere, but how many deaths in this country since 1980 have been attributed to refugees from any of the 7 countries. From any country? Ever?

Balance that against the increased threat moving forward from the golden recruiting opportunity his ban will give every Islamic terrorist group on the planet.

To say nothing of how just plain wrong and contrary to long-held American ideals it is.
 
Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

Imagine Flag et al. if this was Obama. :eek:

You may have been right about the death camps, Flag. Just wrong about the party. :p

Ok that's bad.


Wouldn't it be ironic if it's Trump and not Obama that implemented everything Flaggy was scared about?
 
Imagine Flag et al. if this was Obama. :eek:

You may have been right about the death camps, Flag. Just wrong about the party. :p

If that's the case, are we sure FEMA will still be using Wal-Marts as their base camps, or since we're Dems will they hold them at Target stores?
 
Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

And dx: that's not really a good parallel, since this EO doesn't mention murder. A better hypothetical case would be Eric Holder refusing to uphold DACA because he felt it unwise.

It's not supposed to be a parallel it's a perfectly fine hypothetical.
 
Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

Trump lost NASCAR. Think about that. Whoa. WHOA.

Trump lost a guy. His brownshirts still think he's doing the Lord's work, and they'll burn the Mosques to prove it.

If Fox turns on him that's important, because it will set up cognitive dissonance in his lemmings. They are used to their masters all being on the same page.
 
Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

We desperately need some moderate republicans to stand up. Besides McCain

The moderates are too afraid of the Tea Party basket cases. That will last until the deplorables figure out they've been played.

The movement conservatives still need to kiss Trump's butt so they can get turn us into a feudal state. That will last until they pass the new tax code.

Trump is on borrowed time, but right now it's not in any Republican's interest to challenge him. It would be an act of bravery and patriotism, and we haven't seen either from any Republican since the 70s.
 
Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

Yates did nothing wrong, Brent. Justice Dept. is independent.

Trump saying she "betrayed" anyone is evil and 3rd world dictator mode. Glad my Senator (Klobuchar) spoke out on that this morning/last night and called Trump out on it.

Big story this morning on NBC. Iraqi interpreter and his family immigrating to US on special VISA was not allowed to because of this order. He risked his life for this country (did Trump?) and he just got defecated on by this administration.

He may be my President but this isn't my country.
 
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Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

A source that you disagree with is still a source.

You might want to read "The Closing of the American Mind" by Allan Bloom. It's 30 years old now, but it is still relevant today.

I like Bloom, but that book is silly. Everything he says that had merit was already being said by everyone. Everything else was just a man with a great knowledge and instinct in one sphere (the classics, philosophy) bloviating his opinions about another sphere in which he knew nothing (political science).

Fun fact: Bloom took his intellectual integrity marbles and went home after some black students occupied a building at Cornell and the administration settled with them. The irony is I and pretty much every liberal in America not fooled by post-structuralism agree with Bloom that this was both a bad precedent and introduced a moral hazard into liberal activism that when offenses are committed against norms by oppressed groups we will blame the norms, not the offenders. This is wrong, and it's wrong because of the tenets of liberalism, not despite them.

Bloom never figured that out because he was a bitter and petty man. Frank Rhodes at Cornell, like Bloom a classicist and philosopher, took positive action and kept the liberal candle burning in stark contrast to Bloom even though the latter was within his discipline a far more subtle thinker. Tis a puzzlement.

I recommend you read History of Political Philosophy edited by Bloom's mentor and quasi-god, Leo Strauss. (Warning: it's longer than War and Peace, no joke). Strauss is considered the father of neoconservatism, and all its strengths and weaknesses are on display there: the erudition and the dedication to the text, the pure intellectual honesty of the endeavor of analysis is academia at its best. And yet the men who were trained by Strauss, like Bloom and Wolfowitz and Kagan, were also selected and encouraged in a completely anti-intellectual reflexive reactionariness bordering on authoritarianism. In celebrating the birth of democracy, they lit their votive candles slavishly to an autocrat. And Strauss played the part, right down to encouraging them to spread "noble lies" in order to achieve furtive but salutary ends.

You're a funny cat, joecct. On the one hand I can see the longing for the fresh air of truth, and yet you so easily fall under the spell of all types of ultramontanism. :) You've got the ability to weigh and doubt, but you don't use it on your mentors, and that runs the risk of self-delusion.
 
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Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

Welp, Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder is non-committal yet leaning Trump in his statement on the "Ban". Angling for a cabinet position on the Trump Train?

http://www.uppermichiganssource.com/content/news/Gov-Snyder--412274613.html
Michigan Republican Gov. Rick Snyder says President Donald Trump's refugee and immigration ban is leading to a "much-needed national dialogue on immigration policy."

Snyder released a statement Tuesday morning on the temporary order Trump signed Friday that banned travelers from seven predominantly Muslim countries.

Snyder's full statement is below:

"I support safe and secure borders. As the governor of Michigan, I also know firsthand the strong economic and entrepreneurial culture that has developed in our state because of the vast number of immigrants who have settled here for generations. Michigan has been one of the most welcoming states for legal immigration and properly vetted refugees. Michigan is the best place to live the American Dream and I will continue to encourage people to move here from other states and countries to fulfill their visions and find success.

"I plan to reach out to other governors and the presidential administration to completely understand the security processes and procedures in place and how the new executive orders might affect people trying to legally enter Michigan. The President's 120-day reassessment period is leading to a much-needed national dialogue on immigration policy, and I plan to be part of that discussion."
 
Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

Welp, Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder is non-committal yet leaning Trump in his statement on the "Ban". Angling for a cabinet position on the Trump Train?

He might be better served worrying more about Michigan's water supply then US immigration policy.
 
Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

If the intention of this is to open a dialog, can we do the same- ban gun and ammo sales for just 120 days so that we can open up a dialog?

We are pretty outside of hunting season, so the impact will be minimal (as is being used as an excuse for the people coming to the US), and it's only temporary (another excuse).

It's high time that we take a long look at our gun policy in regards to the actual number of Americans harmed, especially when you put that number, annually, next to the sum of all non-military Americans that have been harmed by the 7 countries over all time. Actually, feel free to add in all of the Europeans harmed, too. Guns are clearly a much bigger threat than the infamous 7.
 
Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

I... kinda like the thought train...

Maybe that's the way to go about this...

Have a group of congressmen with no fu**s to give propose a 120 day suspension of .22, 9mm, and 30-06 ammunition from Remington. (Be just as weirdly specific and totally irrelevant like the "Muslim Ban.") It's "just a discussion" anyway.
 
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