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POTUS 45.19: Being Douced by Irma makes me sad!!

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FadeToBlack&Gold said:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">If you cannot win an election based on your ideas, then get the hell out of politics.</p>— Bernie Sanders (@SenSanders) <a href="https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/900153026631139329">August 23, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Irony
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Pot? Hi, it's kettle.
 
Re: POTUS 45.19: Being Douced by Irma makes me sad!!

5mn_Major said:
Please. Should we just go with zero percent democracy? How about a 100% dictatorship? I'll run it and you do what I say.

We need a government that represents the general will of the people.
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Read what I wrote. I'm asking "do you really want pure democracy?" We could do it. We have the tech.

In a pure democracy (where everyone is in Congress, text your vote in) it would be the general will of the people.
 
Re: POTUS 45.19: Being Douced by Irma makes me sad!!

WeAreNDHockey said:
Reading all of the scuttlebutt over Clinton's book and re-hashing the reasons she lost has left me with the notion that the movers and shakers in the democratic party still don't get it. Sadly, they are like the republicans in ways they should NOT be and not like them in ways they SHOULD be.

Clinton laments that Sanders "ran for the nomination not to help the (democratic) party but to 'disrupt it.'" Since when is it a candidate's responsibility to help the "party?" In that it is obvious she wanted voters who lean left to act like the typical RWNJ voter who votes for nothing more than the little "r" next to the name.

Where we absolutely have to resemble the other party is in how we speak, act and campaign. It is all about getting the right people in there. The republicans have have been running on a very narrow focus of scapegoating and scaring voters for a long time now and the one who scares the most people seems to be the one who comes out on top.

Clinton decries the fact that Sanders chose not to spend much time focusing on "immigration, reproductive rights, racial justice and gun safety." She is still blind. We do not need democrats to run on 275 different identity politics platforms. The party elders better recognize the fact the anyone who did not vote for trump for deplorable reasons voted for him because they bought his phony economic populism. Sanders staying power during his campaign was because of his economic populism. The American people have shown they are ready for a president who embraces this sort of economic populism. Sanders articulated a vision that can win. Where he fell short -- and is still falling short -- is on the details. Unlike republicans, democratic voters do like to see the nuts and bolts. We're actually able to think and process much more effectively than most republican voters.

The vast, vast majority of voters are working people. In other words if we quit working, we quit eating, tomorrow, next week or next month. In that huge group of people are blacks, whites, young, old, gay, straight or somewhere on a long spectrum. There are atheists, agnostics, Muslims, Baptists, Jews and Catholics. There are Juggalos, Judy Collins fans, Phil Collins fans and people who worship on the alter of KISS, Judas Priest and AC/DC. But what we ALL have in common is we need that paycheck. If you want to unite voters, unite them around that paycheck. When democrats start focusing on that, they will start winning races. And really, don't Sanders (and virtually every other non-republican elected official you can name) views on the other common progressive issues already mirror yours much more than trump's?

If my neighbor hates gays and Muslims I might not be able to change his heart, but as long as he can feed his family we have to worry a lot less about him scapegoating people who are not like him in those kinds of ways and falling for some politician who tells him he needs to fear those people for any reason.
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I like your post, but have to call attention to the highlighted portions. Sanders version of economic populism can't win because its always going get co-opted by racism. Had this discussion with Kep who thought that Bernie could win over 2/3rds of the GOP voters. Where Sanders and Trump have the same appeal is with the working class people are getting screwed argument. Where Trump wins, and Sanders loses, is the next step. Trump blames immigrants and wants them all kicked out of the country. Sanders wants to tax the rich more. Great, but most working class people probably don't know any billionaires personally, but sure don't like hearing Spanish in their kids school or waiting in line for coffee.

If your hypothetical friend hates gays and Muslims, he will always do so regardless of his economic situation, and will always vote Republican. No Democratic populist message will appeal to this person. Hell, a poll came out recently that had a majority of Goopers or conservatives against interracial marriage, an issue that should have been put to bed 50 years ago. We (Dems) ain't reaching these people. The trick is to get the lefties to vote, even if they're only getting 80% of what they want.
 
Re: POTUS 45.19: Being Douced by Irma makes me sad!!

Well I think the populism will get lefty voters to vote, single payer is much more popular now than it was a few years ago. Taxing the rich isn't exactly unpopular on the left other than within the DNC higher ups I'm guessing.

I think you're right that Trump's version of blaming minorities is more effective on that side of the aisle and that a lot of them would probably vote for Trump over Bernie based on that. I also think there are some independents that would've voted Bernie over Trump though and personally know at least one if not more.
 
Rover said:
I like your post, but have to call attention to the highlighted portions. Sanders version of economic populism can't win because its always going get co-opted by racism. Had this discussion with Kep who thought that Bernie could win over 2/3rds of the GOP voters. Where Sanders and Trump have the same appeal is with the working class people are getting screwed argument. Where Trump wins, and Sanders loses, is the next step. Trump blames immigrants and wants them all kicked out of the country. Sanders wants to tax the rich more. Great, but most working class people probably don't know any billionaires personally, but sure don't like hearing Spanish in their kids school or waiting in line for coffee.

If your hypothetical friend hates gays and Muslims, he will always do so regardless of his economic situation, and will always vote Republican. No Democratic populist message will appeal to this person. Hell, a poll came out recently that had a majority of Goopers or conservatives against interracial marriage, an issue that should have been put to bed 50 years ago. We (Dems) ain't reaching these people. The trick is to get the lefties to vote, even if they're only getting 80% of what they want.
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There are actually a decent amount of people who think someday they are going to be rich to. I thought Bernie's probably was he blatantly over promised 'free' everything. I give both him and Trump a lot of credit for taking on an issue that is far more important to most people than immigration, abortion, or other rubbish.

There was a good story in the Globe over the weekend about how the job market isn't nearly as good as a lot of numbers would lead you to believe. There are a lot of job postings, but not much competition to actually hire people. I think for a lot of people, even those who are doing well, there is an uneasiness about where things are headed economically.
 
Re: POTUS 45.19: Being Douced by Irma makes me sad!!

trixR4kids said:
Well I think the populism will get lefty voters to vote, single payer is much more popular now than it was a few years ago. Taxing the rich isn't exactly unpopular on the left other than within the DNC higher ups I'm guessing.

I think you're right that Trump's version of blaming minorities is more effective on that side of the aisle and that a lot of them would probably vote for Trump over Bernie based on that. I also think there are some independents that would've voted Bernie over Trump though and personally know at least one if not more.
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Right, I think the trick here is to know who you're going after, never a strong suit amongst Dems. Medicare for all is a great talking point and helps frame the issue in simple terms. For this form of populism to outdo Trump's it will have to appeal to educated voters who understand scapegoating minorities is not the key to economic freedom. To that end I'd like to see someone back up the Medicare proposal with hard #'s, or a "Medicare for all except employer insurance because we're not touching that right now". Yes, it will need higher taxes both on the rich and payroll tax hikes. That's cool, if we get more savings from Medicare operating as non-profit with less overhead than an insurance company. I don't need a 50 page analysis but the educated lefties are going to be far more willing to vote for and defend it if they can understand it, which was a problem with the selling of the ACA to the public.
 
Re: POTUS 45.19: Being Douced by Irma makes me sad!!

Rover said:
... but sure don't like hearing Spanish in their kids school or waiting in line for coffee.
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If only.

It's Spanish ... plus 70 ... in Fargo (ND) Public Schools.
http://www.inforum.com/news/4022491-dozens-languages-f-m-students-speak-home-somali-second-english

My grandmother would, in pure, unaccented English, "harsh" on my father and I when we talked about things in German*. She'd say she came through Ellis Island to speak the language that is here, not from there.


*Unfortunately, most of my German went with my father. :(
 
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Re: POTUS 45.19: Being Douced by Irma makes me sad!!

Suckers.

Fox News personality Greg Gutfeld on Sunday claimed that President Donald Trump’s frequent, strident calls for a physical wall on the U.S.-Mexico border were actually just a metaphor for border security.

“Saying ‘build a wall’ is just a catchier way of saying ‘fix our borders,'” Gutfeld said.
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Re: POTUS 45.19: Being Douced by Irma makes me sad!!

The Sicatoka said:
What's with Bernie and Hillary lately?
Are they going with "the Trump plan*" to get elected next cycle?


*mind-numbingly bewildering on tape/camera quotes and injudicious Twitter usage
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Whats with you all of a sudden showing up again to troll?

Oh and how do you feel about Trump once again possibly spilling information about one of our allies? We all know security is what you REALLY care about so care to comment? (dont worry, we all know you will downplay it just like you did when he handed over classified Israeli Intel to the Russians in the WH)
 
Re: POTUS 45.19: Being Douced by Irma makes me sad!!

Kepler said:
Suckers.
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One of the weird things about Trump is that he'll never just come out and admit that anything he spits out is just relatively reasonable hyperbole. He'll continue to rant and rave about building a wall while leaving it to his surrogates to explain "what it really means when he says that." Completely immature. If "border security" is what you mean, Mr. President, why the big adversarial combative act all the time? It's the Scott Adams method of presiding: spout off a parable for what you mean but in the stupidest, most misleading way possible.
 
Re: POTUS 45.19: Being Douced by Irma makes me sad!!

geezer said:
One of the weird things about Trump is that he'll never just come out and admit that anything he spits out is just relatively reasonable hyperbole. He'll continue to rant and rave about building a wall while leaving it to his surrogates to explain "what it really means when he says that." Completely immature. If "border security" is what you mean, Mr. President, why the big adversarial combative act all the time? It's the Scott Adams method of presiding: spout off a parable for what you mean but in the stupidest, most misleading way possible.
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Not according to his base. They were promised a "big, beautiful wall", paid for by Mexico. Not "border security", which they just know will be rolled back by the next Democratic POTUS, and not a fence. A WALL, made of concrete, steel, searchlights, guard towers, etc.

If they don't see concrete being poured by Election 2020, they're done with him. :rolleyes: (I'll believe that when the votes are tabulated)
 
Re: POTUS 45.19: Being Douced by Irma makes me sad!!

Handyman said:
Whats with you all of a sudden showing up again to troll?

Oh and how do you feel about Trump once again possibly spilling information about one of our allies? We all know security is what you REALLY care about so care to comment? (dont worry, we all know you will downplay it just like you did when he handed over classified Israeli Intel to the Russians in the WH)
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As contrary to you being here all the time? ;)

I rather enjoy seeing Theresa May calling out tDon.
I believe MI5/MI6 have their (shall we politely say) "merde in a mound" much moreso than the US FBI/CIA.
tDon has probably forced them to shut the info-spigot further and that's not good.
 
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