POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

[aparch]

Re: POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

WeAreND: That would require Trump's ego to allow him to. He built his empire on yes men and his children. He's never been good with "outsider" people who stand up and go "Hey, umm, this... This might not be a good idea."

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

Not what your getting at but it occurs to me Congress doesn't have to prove any real charge or contrivance they can come up with since it's essentially a loaded jury trial in the Senate. If, for example, they had wanted to impeach President Obama for being a Kenyan, they could have. They don't need evidence or proof for anything, rather just the political will and the corresponding votes. Nothing can stop them.

DC and Maryland are suing Trump for violating the emoluments clause.

Trump will never be convicted of course because (a) politics and (b) he's a billionaire and beyond the reach of law, but if he was would a conviction constitute a slam dunk if he was impeached, or would Congress still have to prove this somehow constituted real damage to the US?

Impeaching the president is always political, but it does not have to be criminal. Basically the phrase "treason, bribery and high crimes and misdemeanors" is vague for a reason. The House can impeach for whatever reasons they want, and the Senate can acquit or convict based on however it sees the evidence. Remember though that although it sounds like hyperbole it is actually true, republicans in congress would not act against trump if he was seen on video pulling a Jerry Sandusky shower scene unless they feel not doing anything would cost them their next election.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

Not what your getting at but it occurs to me Congress doesn't have to prove any real charge or contrivance they can come up with since it's essentially a loaded jury trial in the Senate. If, for example, they had wanted to impeach President Obama for being a Kenyan, they could have. They don't need evidence or proof for anything, rather just the political will and the corresponding votes. Nothing can stop them.

Correct. If the Senate has the votes they can essentially just do it. They would reap the whirlwind if they did but they could do it.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

Remember though that although it sounds like hyperbole it is actually true, republicans in congress would not act against trump if he was seen on video pulling a Jerry Sandusky shower scene unless they feel not doing anything would cost them their next election.

Yes, that is a given. Nixon knew it was time when Barry Goldwater told him it was time, and Goldwater told him it was time because the GOP Congress knew Nixon had become radioactive for them.

But the question now is, can Trump ever become radioactive for Republicans? As long as the Noise Machine keeps feeding its sheeple "news" that says no matter what happens all Republicans are innocent then it will be suicide for a Republican to act against Trump. The GOP masses literally do not know what is going on. Show them a scientific study and they say it's made up. Show them a poll and they say it's rigged. Show them the actual tape of Trump being peed on in St. Pete and they'll say "that's Hillary" -- in fact, they'll actually see Hillary:

The proletarians will
never revolt, not in a thousand years or a million. They cannot. I do
not have to tell you the reason: you know it already. If you have ever
cherished any dreams of violent insurrection, you must abandon them. There
is no way in which the Party can be overthrown. The rule of the Party is
for ever. Make that the starting-point of your thoughts.'

He came closer to the bed. 'For ever!' he repeated. 'And now let us get
back to the question of "how" and "why". You understand well enough HOW
the Party maintains itself in power. Now tell me WHY we cling to power.
What is our motive? Why should we want power? Go on, speak,' he added as
Winston remained silent.

Nevertheless Winston did not speak for another moment or two. A feeling of
weariness had overwhelmed him. The faint, mad gleam of enthusiasm had come
back into O'Brien's face. He knew in advance what O'Brien would say. That
the Party did not seek power for its own ends, but only for the good of
the majority. That it sought power because men in the mass were frail,
cowardly creatures who could not endure liberty or face the truth, and
must be ruled over and systematically deceived by others who were stronger
than themselves. That the choice for mankind lay between freedom and
happiness, and that, for the great bulk of mankind, happiness was better.
That the party was the eternal guardian of the weak, a dedicated sect
doing evil that good might come, sacrificing its own happiness to that of
others. The terrible thing, thought Winston, the terrible thing was that
when O'Brien said this he would believe it. You could see it in his face.
O'Brien knew everything. A thousand times better than Winston he knew what
the world was really like, in what degradation the mass of human beings
lived and by what lies and barbarities the Party kept them there. He had
understood it all, weighed it all, and it made no difference: all was
justified by the ultimate purpose.

...

'We are the priests of power,' he said. 'God is power. But at present
power is only a word so far as you are concerned. It is time for you to
gather some idea of what power means. The first thing you must realize
is that power is collective. The individual only has power in so far as
he ceases to be an individual. You know the Party slogan: "Freedom is
Slavery". Has it ever occurred to you that it is reversible? Slavery is
freedom. Alone--free--the human being is always defeated. It must be so,
because every human being is doomed to die, which is the greatest of all
failures. But if he can make complete, utter submission, if he can escape
from his identity, if he can merge himself in the Party so that he IS the
Party, then he is all-powerful and immortal. The second thing for you to
realize is that power is power over human beings. Over the body--but, above
all, over the mind. Power over matter--external reality, as you would call
it--is not important. Already our control over matter is absolute.'

For a moment Winston ignored the dial. He made a violent effort to raise
himself into a sitting position, and merely succeeded in wrenching his
body painfully.

'But how can you control matter?' he burst out. 'You don't even control
the climate or the law of gravity. And there are disease, pain, death----'

O'Brien silenced him by a movement of his hand. 'We control matter because
we control the mind. Reality is inside the skull. You will learn by
degrees, Winston. There is nothing that we could not do. Invisibility,
levitation--anything. I could float off this floor like a soap bubble if
I wish to. I do not wish to, because the Party does not wish it. You must
get rid of those nineteenth-century ideas about the laws of Nature. We
make the laws of Nature.'

'But you do not! You are not even masters of this planet. What about
Eurasia and Eastasia? You have not conquered them yet.'

'Unimportant. We shall conquer them when it suits us. And if we did not,
what difference would it make? We can shut them out of existence. Oceania
is the world.'

'But the world itself is only a speck of dust. And man is tiny--helpless!
How long has he been in existence? For millions of years the earth was
uninhabited.'

'Nonsense. The earth is as old as we are, no older. How could it be older?
Nothing exists except through human consciousness.'

'But the rocks are full of the bones of extinct animals--mammoths and
mastodons and enormous reptiles which lived here long before man was ever
heard of.'

'Have you ever seen those bones, Winston? Of course not. Nineteenth-century
biologists invented them. Before man there was nothing. After man, if he
could come to an end, there would be nothing. Outside man there is
nothing.'

'But the whole universe is outside us. Look at the stars! Some of them are
a million light-years away. They are out of our reach for ever.'

'What are the stars?' said O'Brien indifferently. 'They are bits of fire
a few kilometres away. We could reach them if we wanted to. Or we could
blot them out. The earth is the centre of the universe. The sun and the
stars go round it.'

Winston made another convulsive movement. This time he did not say
anything. O'Brien continued as though answering a spoken objection:

'For certain purposes, of course, that is not true. When we navigate the
ocean, or when we predict an eclipse, we often find it convenient to
assume that the earth goes round the sun and that the stars are millions
upon millions of kilometres away. But what of it? Do you suppose it is
beyond us to produce a dual system of astronomy? The stars can be near
or distant, according as we need them. Do you suppose our mathematicians
are unequal to that? Have you forgotten doublethink?'

Winston shrank back upon the bed. Whatever he said, the swift answer
crushed him like a bludgeon. And yet he knew, he KNEW, that he was in the
right. The belief that nothing exists outside your own mind--surely there
must be some way of demonstrating that it was false? Had it not been
exposed long ago as a fallacy? There was even a name for it, which he
had forgotten. A faint smile twitched the corners of O'Brien's mouth as
he looked down at him.

'I told you, Winston,' he said, 'that metaphysics is not your strong
point. The word you are trying to think of is solipsism. But you are
mistaken. This is not solipsism. Collective solipsism, if you like. But
that is a different thing: in fact, the opposite thing. All this is a
digression,' he added in a different tone. 'The real power, the power we
have to fight for night and day, is not power over things, but over men.'
He paused, and for a moment assumed again his air of a schoolmaster
questioning a promising pupil: 'How does one man assert his power over
another, Winston?'

Winston thought. 'By making him suffer,' he said.

That is the world the political right made for their prisoners, but now the political right is itself its prisoner, because any action they take must correspond to that world or the monster will turn and consume them.

And how will the GOP and their media enablers ever get out of that? Will they call a press conference and say, "By the way, we've been lying to you for the last 37 years, and because of those lies your lives and your children's lives have been destroyed. Uh... sorry?"

And they will say this to a mob they have encouraged to arm itself and act with spite, hate, and violence?

I didn't think so.

 

[Rover]

Re: POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

Not sure I get Wisco's take here. If Trump is found to have committed crimes, Dems should let it slide because they're never find enough votes in the Senate to convict? Um...okay?

While I certainly agree gutless weasels in the Senate will never convict Trump even if he's shown on video giving Putin a bj, its certainly worth the Dems and the country's time to put him on trail. If the GOP STILL wants to stand by him they can answer to the voters during the next election.

As has been written, we already have an obstruction of justice charge. Trump admits it. You can't call the head of the FBI into your office and tell him to stop an investigation into one of your hires. If Dems are fortunate enough to retake the House next year, start the hearings and if the evidence continues to point in that direction start drafting the impeachment documents. Yes he may very well be acquitted but perhaps future Presidents will be more inclined to be a little more subtle when they break the law.

 

[dave122793]

Re: POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/12/opinion/donald-trump-paul-ryan-health-care.html?ref=opinion&_r=0

“This is exactly why at the Senate hearing where Comey made his devastating charges, Republicans pretended not to see the evidence of obstruction of justice. For the time being, they have no interest whatsoever in initiating proceedings against the president that would consume their agenda. They know they have Trump in a position where he has no real choice except to do what they want.”

Ryan and the R's have Trump right where they want him. He's not going anywhere, at least not until the rich get their tax cuts. After that Trump might be disposable.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/12/opinion/donald-trump-paul-ryan-health-care.html?ref=opinion&_r=0

“This is exactly why at the Senate hearing where Comey made his devastating charges, Republicans pretended not to see the evidence of obstruction of justice. For the time being, they have no interest whatsoever in initiating proceedings against the president that would consume their agenda. They know they have Trump in a position where he has no real choice except to do what they want.”

Ryan and the R's have Trump right where they want him. He's not going anywhere, at least not until the rich get their tax cuts. After that Trump might be disposable.

Correct. The sole purpose of government, for the GOP, is to loot public wealth. They still have trillions to steal before they'll put Dump out of our misery.

 

[leswp1]

Re: POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

McCain confuses me. He comes out, off the floor and torpedoes Trump before the hearings- saying he is concerned. SOunds completely incoherent in the hearings and then on the weekend indicts Trump of poor leadership. Which is it?

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

McCain confuses me. He comes out, off the floor and torpedoes Trump before the hearings- saying he is concerned. SOunds completely incoherent in the hearings and then on the weekend indicts Trump of poor leadership. Which is it?

When in doubt, I'd go with dementia.

 

[French Rage]

Re: POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

When in doubt, I'd go with dementia.

He wants hen fap! Stop the picnic apes!

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

Ivanka Trump creeps me out. Especially when she refers to her dad when discussing his or her official capacity as "dad." Don't players who skate for their fathers refer to them as "Coach?" Her reference to him as "dad" is too familiar and always sounds icky. If this was the worst thing about the trump presidency I could live with it absent any reservation. Hell, don't even longtime friends of the president tend to address him as "Mr. President" once he takes office, even in private conversations in the oval office?

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

Ratweasel will testify in open session.

Please perjure yourself, you colossal scumbag.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

Ivanka Trump creeps me out. Especially when she refers to her dad when discussing his or her official capacity as "dad." Don't players who skate for their fathers refer to them as "Coach?" Her reference to him as "dad" is too familiar and always sounds icky. If this was the worst thing about the trump presidency I could live with it absent any reservation. Hell, don't even longtime friends of the president tend to address him as "Mr. President" once he takes office, even in private conversations in the oval office?

I'm willing to give her a pass. For one thing, there is no apology about the nepotism, which is weirdly refreshing. The Trump hellspawn would be running a Sunoco in Idaho if they didn't come from money. Also, I always feel a little skeevy when a spouse or child refers to "The President..." Yeah, Chelsea, we get it. Go f-ck yourself.

Agreed absolutely that business associates on formal tasking from the EOP have to refer to him by his title. That is appropriate. But while Ivanka is obviously a Stepford Turd in an expensive skirt, is it IMO fine for her to say "dad." Even kind of nice if, you know, they weren't a nest of vipers.

 

[leswp1]

Re: POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

Ivanka Trump creeps me out. Especially when she refers to her dad when discussing his or her official capacity as "dad." Don't players who skate for their fathers refer to them as "Coach?" Her reference to him as "dad" is too familiar and always sounds icky. If this was the worst thing about the trump presidency I could live with it absent any reservation. Hell, don't even longtime friends of the president tend to address him as "Mr. President" once he takes office, even in private conversations in the oval office?

This family skeeves me out. Having dealt with very creepy, very sick, dysfunctional families~ every red flag in my brain goes up when I see them interact. There is so much that is not normal. I wouldn't leave a kid with any of them. :shudder:

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

This family skeeves me out. Having dealt with very creepy, very sick, dysfunctional families~ every red flag in my brain goes up when I see them interact. There is so much that is not normal. I wouldn't leave a kid with any of them. :shudder:

Creepy how?

 

[leswp1]

Re: POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

Gee, I don't know. I wold be willing to bet a large chunk of change there is domestic violence, inappropriate boundries (how bout that for a PC term) along with a culture that fits with grifters.

In trying to find the name of the family that goes around the country scamming people I googled- this came up as a category- grifter in chief

 

[St. Clown]

Re: POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

This family skeeves me out. Having dealt with very creepy, very sick, dysfunctional families~ every red flag in my brain goes up when I see them interact. There is so much that is not normal. I wouldn't leave a kid with any of them. :shudder:

When the father says that his daughter is extremely attractive, and that he'd sleep with her if she wasn't his family, you know there are issues. Very big issues. They're Yuuuge.

 

[bronconick]

Re: POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

Congressman introduces Covfefe act

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

President Trump's travel ban struck down by second appeals court

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.11: Attack! Repeat. Atrack!!!

McCain confuses me. He comes out, off the floor and torpedoes Trump before the hearings- saying he is concerned. SOunds completely incoherent in the hearings and then on the weekend indicts Trump of poor leadership. Which is it?

What is there to be confused about? When nothing is on the line (like say giving a speech) he will say whatever is on his mind but when push comes to shove he wont go against his paymasters. The man is spineless.