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POTUS 45.08: Suckers

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Re: POTUS 45.08: Suckers

Yes it is important to distinguish between true Conservatism and what the GOP is today. There is no true conservative party which is partly why we are where we are. You cant have two big government, spend crazy parties that only differ on what they support. You need a conservative party to check against the left going too far. The current GOP wants to outspend the tax and spenders while cutting taxes and taking away rights and expanding Federal reach...doesnt sound very conservative to me.
 
Re: POTUS 45.08: Suckers

Brenthoven said:
I disagree. Someone asks me something, I answer, and then get called "Switzerland," or accused of believing that BS pizza store porno story, or wearing a tinfoil hat, or actually believing that Hill would be a worse prez than Trump, or some other BS that is completely untrue. Tired of it.
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It's not that people say you believe the BS pizza store story. You choose to reject that. And yet, you continue to embrace the rest of the "conspiracy theories" that those pushing the pizza story also were pushing.

And somehow, not believing the pizza story but believing all the rest makes you a centrist.
 
Re: POTUS 45.08: Suckers

ericredaxe said:
This thread has indeed largely become a far left wing circle jerk. No space for centrists anymore.
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Facts and logic go a LONG way.

As well as the lack of hypocrisy.

If you can defend your position with that, people will listen to you and debate. Without that, well...

Sure, there's room for centrists like me! :)

But that does point out the fallacy that everyone is just like yourself. (not you specific, eric, the general you). For some reason, we all project ourselves onto everyone else, as if we are the normal thinking, regardless. So you think you are centrist, we think you are right wing and we are in the center. If you can accept that, bring facts, logic, and no hypocrisy, and people listen.

No wingbat crap from Mr Jones, though.
 
Re: POTUS 45.08: Suckers

ericredaxe said:
This thread has indeed largely become a far left wing circle jerk. No space for centrists anymore.
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I think this is nonsense, but from a far enough right POV, perhaps it feels correct.

If you say, for example, Sandy Hook was a false flag operation, yeah you're going to get an avalanche of disagreement and no small amount of questioning of your cognitive processes.

But do you think that if you put forward a reasoned argument people will just blow it off with ad hom attacks? I don't think that's the way things work around here. You'll definitely get challenged and dissected, but that isn't disrespect, it's engagement. At the end of the day you kinda have to have the numbers or your opinion is... just an opinion.
 
Re: POTUS 45.08: Suckers

Kepler said:
But do you think that if you put forward a reasoned argument people will just blow it off with ad hom attacks?
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Pretty much what happened with Brent in the last couple of days isn't it?

Futher back, when I pointed out areas that we might be able to reduce waste and abuse in Emergency Room health care I was essentially told I was full of crap, and it was "BS" and to "GFY". (not from you specifically), then equated to Jason Chaffetz on a political level.

As Brent mentioned, there is a lot of "listening to respond" and not "listening to understand" in here.
 
Re: POTUS 45.08: Suckers

ericredaxe said:
Pretty much what happened with Brent in the last couple of days isn't it?

Futher back, when I pointed out areas that we might be able to reduce waste and abuse in Emergency Room health care I was essentially told I was full of crap, and it was "BS" and to "GFY". (not from you specifically), then equated to Jason Chaffetz on a political level.

As Brent mentioned, there is a lot of "listening to respond" and not "listening to understand" in here.
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My issue with your Emergency Room Care example is that your core assumption is that every ER is just like yours. Which it isn't. Just like you are not in the center.

Or that everyone in the country are just like the people you see in your ER. They aren't. My gut tells me that *most* people don't want to go to the doctor, and would likely not abuse the system. So why throw out the whole batch for one bad apple?
 
Re: POTUS 45.08: Suckers

Ivanka setting up her own "Clinton Foundation" while running it out of her White House office.

But, as the article asks, will it be a true non-profit(and does that really matter, as we all know how the Trumps view "Foundations"), or will it be set up to make her a buck?

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/this-is-amazing-6

I'm sure all our centrists here will have no problem with this.
 
Re: POTUS 45.08: Suckers

BTW, if Brent would be honest about why he thinks Hillary would be a bad President, that would go a long way.

Most of it could be because her views and agenda is totally different than his. Say that, and people would accept it.

Saying "bengaziii" or "emailz" or "clinton foundation" is a red herring, and is significantly less than what don showed and is currently doing with his board of directors. The idea that you can bring up that for Secretary Clinton, but not for don is total crap.

THAT is the issue here.
 
Re: POTUS 45.08: Suckers

ericredaxe said:
Pretty much what happened with Brent in the last couple of days isn't it?

Futher back, when I pointed out areas that we might be able to reduce waste and abuse in Emergency Room health care I was essentially told I was full of crap, and it was "BS" and to "GFY". (not from you specifically), then equated to Jason Chaffetz on a political level.

As Brent mentioned, there is a lot of "listening to respond" and not "listening to understand" in here.
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No we attacked your defending of the numbnuts who said that people who couldnt afford health care needed to get rid of their Iphones. Not the same thing...just because your wife sees something doesnt make it fact everywhere.

And Brent was asked to give reasons behind his hatred of Hillary and he had nothing but the same old tired BS with no facts. He has every right to dislike her (I always have) but at least have a reason. His answers sounded like Trumpers interviewed by CNN.

edit: alfa said it better than me :)
 
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Re: POTUS 45.08: Suckers

Handyman said:
No we attacked your defending of the numbnuts who said that people who couldnt afford health care needed to get rid of their Iphones. Not the same thing...just because your wife sees something doesnt make it fact everywhere.
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The difference is that you take the iPhones comment from Chaffetz as literal, where I (and others) take it as a symbolic example (keep in mind as a general rule, I can't stand Chaffetz) Or another way of saying that the country would be a lot better off if more people took more personal responsibility for some of their health care costs. To illustrate the point check out:

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2014/10/er-demonstrates-inverted-priorities-american-society.html
 
Re: POTUS 45.08: Suckers

ericredaxe said:
This thread has indeed largely become a far left wing circle jerk. No space for centrists anymore.
Click to expand...

And they accuse right-wingers of setting up an echo chamber... I find it quite ironic that they accuse the other side of everything that they are presently doing.
 
Re: POTUS 45.08: Suckers

alfablue said:
BTW, if Brent would be honest about why he thinks Hillary would be a bad President, that would go a long way.

Most of it could be because her views and agenda is totally different than his. Say that, and people would accept it.

Saying "bengaziii" or "emailz" or "clinton foundation" is a red herring, and is significantly less than what don showed and is currently doing with his board of directors. The idea that you can bring up that for Secretary Clinton, but not for don is total crap.

THAT is the issue here.
Click to expand...

So you assume Brent is a liar? That is a pretty heavy accusation...
 
Re: POTUS 45.08: Suckers

Remember the Donald Trump who campaigned against what he termed was Obama's excessive use of executive orders to govern?

Yeah, not so much. Desperate to claim any accomplishments they can hang their hats on for their first 100 days in office, the White House is now bragging about the number of executive orders Trump has signed. The most of any president since WWII.

https://www.apnews.com/e9f75e03bb7a41c1a44e9512d4990832/Trump-touts-executive-orders-he-once-lambasted?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP_Politics

White House aides said that Trump will have signed 32 executive orders by Friday, the most of any president in their first 100 days since World War II. That's a far cry from Trump's heated campaign rhetoric, in which he railed against President Barack Obama's use of executive action late in his tenure when he faced a Republican Congress. Trump argued that he, the consummate deal maker, wouldn't need to rely on the tool.

"The country wasn't based on executive orders," said Trump at a town hall in South Carolina in February 2016. "Right now, Obama goes around signing executive orders. He can't even get along with the Democrats, and he goes around signing all these executive orders. It's a basic disaster. You can't do it."
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Re: POTUS 45.08: Suckers

ericredaxe said:
Pretty much what happened with Brent in the last couple of days isn't it?

Futher back, when I pointed out areas that we might be able to reduce waste and abuse in Emergency Room health care I was essentially told I was full of crap, and it was "BS" and to "GFY". (not from you specifically), then equated to Jason Chaffetz on a political level.

As Brent mentioned, there is a lot of "listening to respond" and not "listening to understand" in here.
Click to expand...

This may be, but it's not universal and there are intelligent people here to discuss things with even if you feel you need to make liberal use of Ignore.

I went on walkabout for 18 months from this place, so I know it is possible to just get sick of it. My adjustment coming back was to say I'll never change anybody's mind, that's not what happens here, but I will try to articulate what I think is the truth and try to understand what other people are saying. With a few people I've kinda given up but for the most part I get something from the interaction. For example, I was disappointed that Bob walked and hope, like me, he'll eventually come back.

Every collection of people is bound to include a few knuckleheads and bullies -- ignore them and concentrate on the people who are interesting, particularly those you disagree with.
 
Re: POTUS 45.08: Suckers

ericredaxe said:
The difference is that you take the iPhones comment from Chaffetz as literal, where I (and others) take it as a symbolic example (keep in mind as a general rule, I can't stand Chaffetz) Or another way of saying that the country would be a lot better off if more people took more personal responsibility for some of their health care costs. To illustrate the point check out:

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2014/10/er-demonstrates-inverted-priorities-american-society.html
Click to expand...

While that's true and I'm sure everyone would agree that's just not going to happen. So, a decision has to be made. And if it needs to be made than make it. But, when the decision is made you're going to hurt real people. Cause when you punish everyone for the transgressions of the few that's what happens.

And this is where the GOP has gone full ***** on the bit. They want all the good Obamacare provides but they don't want to pay for it. Well, the good costs money. And this is the logical fallacy of the right that has been going on now since Reagan took office.
 
Re: POTUS 45.08: Suckers

rufus said:
Remember the Donald Trump who campaigned against what he termed was Obama's excessive use of executive orders to govern?

Yeah, not so much. Desperate to claim any accomplishments they can hang their hats on for their first 100 days in office, the White House is now bragging about the number of executive orders Trump has signed. The most of any president since WWII.

https://www.apnews.com/e9f75e03bb7a41c1a44e9512d4990832/Trump-touts-executive-orders-he-once-lambasted?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP_Politics
Click to expand...

How many of Trump's orders are actions for laws already on the books vs. new "legislating" from the presidential pen?
 
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