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Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

L

LakerFan99

New member
Just saw this this morning and didn't see it here. Potsdam gets 2 years probation and no postseason.

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The NCAA has penalized the State University of New York at Potsdam for violations of financial aid rules involving men's and women's ice hockey; men's and women's lacrosse; women's volleyball and women's soccer programs.

Penalties in this case include two years probation and a postseason ban.

During the 2008-08 and 2009-10 academic years, the NCAA says the university awarded financial aid packages to student-athletes in a pattern clearly distinguishable from the general pattern of all financial aid for the general student body. The committee noted the violations were unintentional, but represented a significant competitive advantage.

The university awarded the scholarships in the form of International Initiative Grants, which were designed to increase the presence of international students enrolled at the university.

Link (Why an Indiana site picked it up is beyond me): http://www.greenfieldreporter.com/v...34bda9d5dab9b0e391fce/NY--Potsdam-State-NCAA/
 
Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

STATE UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK AT POTSDAM PUBLIC INFRACTIONS REPORT

Excerpt:
This case involved violation of NCAA Division III financial aid bylaws. Over two
academic years, 2008-09 and 2009-10, the institution administered financial aid to
international student-athletes in a manner not sufficiently equivalent to the percentage of
student-athletes within the student body. The financial aid, which was distributed to
Canadian student-athletes in the sports of men's and women's ice hockey, men's and
women's lacrosse, women's soccer and women's volleyball, was awarded in the form of
International Initiative Grants that were designed to increase the presence of international
students enrolled at the institution. However, in 2008-09, approximately 24 percent of
the grants were awarded to student-athletes while student-athletes comprised only
approximately 11 percent of the general student body. In 2009-10, almost 17 percent of
the grants went to student-athletes, even though they made up only approximately eight
percent of the student body. Because the percentages were not closely equivalent, as
required by NCAA Bylaw 15.4.1-(d), violations occurred. The committee noted that the
violations were unintentional.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

First Genesseo and Buff State, now Potsdam. Potential problems for other SUNY schools? The international student thing seems to be causing issues. Based on the report of how internationally friendly Plattsburgh is, I expect they will not have a problem. How about Oswego?
 
Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

LakerFan99 said:
The NCAA has penalized the State University of New York at Potsdam for violations of financial aid rules involving men's and women's ice hockey; men's and women's lacrosse; women's volleyball and women's soccer programs.

During the 2008-08 and 2009-10 academic years, the NCAA says the university awarded financial aid packages to student-athletes in a pattern clearly distinguishable from the general pattern of all financial aid for the general student body. The committee noted the violations were unintentional, but represented a significant competitive advantage.
Click to expand...

If you look at the records of those teams in those years, I don't know how in the world you could say such a thing...
 
Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

NUProf said:
First Genesseo and Buff State, now Potsdam. Potential problems for other SUNY schools? The international student thing seems to be causing issues. Based on the report of how internationally friendly Plattsburgh is, I expect they will not have a problem. How about Oswego?
Click to expand...

Remember what I wrote in my column when the Geneseo/Buffalo State story first broke? I wrote there are potentially a lot more of these coming down. And not just in SUNYAC.

The surprising thing about Potsdam is I used them as an example of how to do it right, since they had an academic program set up to attract non-athlete Canadian students. So, the question has to be, where did it go wrong?
 
Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

Russell Jaslow said:
Remember what I wrote in my column when the Geneseo/Buffalo State story first broke? I wrote there are potentially a lot more of these coming down. And not just in SUNYAC.

The surprising thing about Potsdam is I used them as an example of how to do it right, since they had an academic program set up to attract non-athlete Canadian students. So, the question has to be, where did it go wrong?
Click to expand...

I think one of the flaws in the thinking in the whole process is that athletes are more likely to have an interest in going to school out of country than other students. In Canada there are plenty of opportunities for students to get a quality education at a reasonable tuition rate, but there are not as many opportunities for athletes to get an education and participate in a relatively high profile athletic program. I would expect that an international scholarship program will always take proportionally more athletes than non-athletes. If the intent is campus diversification, the NCAA should be giving schools more slack. We've also seen this issue had an impact at UNE - where hockey players were told to either give up the grant or stop playing hockey.
 
Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

NUProf said:
I think one of the flaws in the thinking in the whole process is that athletes are more likely to have an interest in going to school out of country than other students. In Canada there are plenty of opportunities for students to get a quality education at a reasonable tuition rate, but there are not as many opportunities for athletes to get an education and participate in a relatively high profile athletic program. I would expect that an international scholarship program will always take proportionally more athletes than non-athletes. If the intent is campus diversification, the NCAA should be giving schools more slack. We've also seen this issue had an impact at UNE - where hockey players were told to either give up the grant or stop playing hockey.
Click to expand...

Reading the NCAA report, it appears Potsdam fell into a scary trap that many other schools could find themselves in.

Potsdam was doing it right, initially. But then for various reasons, mainly economic, they slowed down their recruiting of non-athlete Canadian students. The problem is, no one (mainly the financial aid office) kept their eye on the ball and/or notified the athletic department that this started to cause the numbers to become skewed.

Like we talked about in many other threads, you need to keep the ratios the same. When Potsdam slowed down their general recruiting efforts in Canada, and naturally the coaches did not, 24% of the grants went to student athletes while the percentage of student athletes amongst the general student population is 11%. The following year, it was 17% and 8%, respectively. Ergo, you are now in violation.

"Because the percentages were not closely equivalent, as required by NCAA Bylaw 15.4.1-(d), violations occurred."

It doesn't matter how much of an international (or Canadian) flavor a school has (like Plattsburgh). If you let the ratios get skewed, you're screwed.
 
Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

NUProf said:
First Genesseo and Buff State, now Potsdam. Potential problems for other SUNY schools? The international student thing seems to be causing issues. Based on the report of how internationally friendly Plattsburgh is, I expect they will not have a problem. How about Oswego?
Click to expand...

Wonder how many Platty fans are wishing Oz got caught? :D
 
Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

Russell Jaslow said:
We have no idea who else the NCAA is currently investigating.

I'd be very careful about potential foot-in-mouth statements...
Click to expand...

I know, but I could picture one of them saying "Please let it be Oswego" when they heard the words, SUNYAC, hockey and probation in the same sentence.
 
Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

Reading the NCAA report carefully, it appears that Potsdam will not be barred from postseason play next year. It appears they are in the same situation Geneseo and Buffalo State were in -- as long as no player on the roster is receiving the aid, the team can compete in the postseason.

The lacrosse teams are currently in their season, so they have no way of correcting the problem this year (same situation as Geneseo and Buffalo State hockey teams last year). But once a new season starts, if the rosters are "clean" then there is no ban.
 
Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

I wonder what the Bears hockey team will look like next season? I just heard about this NCAA violation late last night and was baffled by it. My question is, as Russell stated regarding the ratio of international student athletes to interational students became an issue, then how is that the fault of the Coaches?
Well just like my Leafs, I now know my Bears won't be in the post season.....by October. :(
 
Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

Saints17 said:
I wonder what the Bears hockey team will look like next season? I just heard about this NCAA violation late last night and was baffled by it. My question is, as Russell stated regarding the ratio of international student athletes to interational students became an issue, then how is that the fault of the Coaches?
Click to expand...

It's NOT the fault of the coaches. Who is implying otherwise? This is something many ill informed Geneseo fans couldn't understand (nor get over) last year in their criticism.

In fact, in D3, it's against the rules for coaches to even talk to recruits about any potential financial aid (a rule that is violated all the time...). All they can do is refer the student to their financial aid office to discuss this sort of thing. It's up to the financial aid office, and hopefully with proper communications with the athletic department, to make sure all NCAA financial aid rules are being followed.

It is the responsibility of the entire institution to follow the rules properly. They did not. Ergo, they got in trouble.
 
Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

Russell.....I didn't mean to imply its the Coaches fault. I was making a "blanket" statement, as no one should fault the Coaches on this.
 
Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

Russell Jaslow said:
It's NOT the fault of the coaches. Who is implying otherwise? This is something many ill informed Geneseo fans couldn't understand (nor get over) last year in their criticism.

In fact, in D3, it's against the rules for coaches to even talk to recruits about any potential financial aid (a rule that is violated all the time...). All they can do is refer the student to their financial aid office to discuss this sort of thing. It's up to the financial aid office, and hopefully with proper communications with the athletic department, to make sure all NCAA financial aid rules are being followed.

It is the responsibility of the entire institution to follow the rules properly. They did not. Ergo, they got in trouble.
Click to expand...

Exactly, imagine a construction site without proper oversight, the roofing contractor might show up before the basement is finished. The DIII schools must monitor the distribution of all financial aid. Schools track many aspects of their freshman/transfer classes, and among one of them NEEDS to be the financial aid ratio of any school sponsored aid program between the general student body and student athletes - it IS that simple.

In these cases - Buffalo, Geneseo and now Potsdam, the issue is International Student Aid, but particularly in Basketball, SUNY schools have to monitor their use of EOP (Educational Opportunity Program), a program open to all academically AND financially disadvantaged NY students, but heavily promoted by a separate - but related organization, the EOC's (Educational Opportunity Centers). The EOC's exist primarily in large urban centers, areas where basketball tends to thrive, SUNY basketball coaches are aware of both, and with due competence steer potential student-athletes to the program, but the proportion of recipients needs to stay within those "required by NCAA Bylaw 15.4.1-(d)".
 
Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

It states right on their website:

Canadian and International Student Initiative
SUNY Potsdam wants to continue its goal of recruiting a strong international population. Our Canadian and International Student Initiative Grant helps us to do just that. All accepted undergraduate international students will receive the International Student Initiative Grant worth $8,220.00 in U. S. Funds. The grant is applied to the total billed cost. The grant is renewable for up to four years of full time undergraduate study. The student must live on campus and participate in the 19-meal-per-week plan.

For information on the International Initiative Grant at the graduate level please see:
International Graduate Students.


It is the same for all International students so I don't understand the NCAA's position on this and their non position on oh let's say the majority of the teams that were in the NCAA tournament. For some reason these state schools have caught the eye of the NCAA because they are not able to just wrap things up nicely like some private schools. The NCAA is the one that needs to fine themselves and audit all the schools and they will find a myriad of violations by there weak standards. This was not the coaches fault it should have been caught in the atletic administration or compliance offices as well as Financial Aid.
 
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Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

cooperalls said:
It states right on their website:

Canadian and International Student Initiative
SUNY Potsdam wants to continue its goal of recruiting a strong international population. Our Canadian and International Student Initiative Grant helps us to do just that. All accepted undergraduate international students will receive the International Student Initiative Grant worth $8,220.00 in U. S. Funds. The grant is applied to the total billed cost. The grant is renewable for up to four years of full time undergraduate study. The student must live on campus and participate in the 19-meal-per-week plan.

For information on the International Initiative Grant at the graduate level please see:
International Graduate Students.


It is the same for all International students so I don't understand the NCAA's position on this and their non position on oh let's say the majority of the teams that were in the NCAA tournament. For some reason these state schools have caught the eye of the NCAA because they are not able to just wrap things up nicely like some private schools. The NCAA is the one that needs to fine themselves and audit all the schools and they will find a myriad of violations by there weak standards.
Click to expand...

You haven't been reading the thread very closely. It's the RATIO of student athletes who are getting this aid versus the ratio of the regular student body. It is as norm says, very simple.

If that ratio is way off, then the NCAA sees it as a means to supply a defacto athletic scholarship. A way to work a loophole, which the NCAA is not going to allow. And properly so.

And, who's to say the NCAA is not investigating other schools, both private and public? We only hear about it if there are violations found.
 
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Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

I heard at least 4 other schools names, all private, that were being looked at back when the Buffalo State / Geneseo rulings came down. When its something to this extent its sad to see. I don't think either teams are doing this intentionally one bit.

And Dan I was told back during the Buff State findings that Oswego was looked into but found to be legal.... Again this type of thing is so wishy washy.....if you target 100 foreign students, 50 of whome play sports....and they all show but only 20 of the non athletes show....its one of the dumbest things out there....now if international non athletic students were applying and not getting the grant/aid/scholarship whatever people want to call it....then its wrong....but I havnt seen anything that supports it. Another dumb NCAA rule...
 
Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

I understand the ratio smart guy, but the NCAA also doesn't get the ratio of where the school is located so the NCAA works it's own loopholes. We are talking about what is right and what is wrong and how the NCAA perceives it and makes up rules as they go along. It needs to end and they need to be more consistent in their definitions. It's rediculous that schools that are close to the boder of Canada are being targeted it seems like to me. I am sure that all these other schools just have a huge International Student Population that overlap and allow them to have 28 Canadians on their rosters right? Seems like that could be considered another loophole if you ask me.
 
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