Post all your cries whines, objections, complaints here

[NUProf]

Re: Post all your cries whines, objections, complaints here

One slot next year may not be.

But imagine if ALL the NCAA tournaments were conference champion only. I dare say that those post season tournaments would be lot more exciting if they were lose and done.

The demise of Pool B basically means that one Pool C slot has gone away, as I think one spot will be given to the ECAC West winner. Mathematically, what has happened is that leagues have evolved to the point where most have 7 or 8 members (I know, MiAC has 9 and NESCAC has 10). The Pool C slots come from the teams and fractions of teams that leagues exceed the minimums.

 

[jerrynu26]

Re: Post all your cries whines, objections, complaints here

G Really all they did is talk about CSC teams from the past like it was the current team and they really don't want new up and coming teams to disturb the status quo as you stated. That's why I hate Middlebury and Norwich so much.

Really? seriously? After Norwich scheduled an extra game with CSC, and that was the plus bump in your SOS??? And you wonder why people don't think highly of the program.....

 

[CSC Dad]

Re: Post all your cries whines, objections, complaints here

Really? seriously? After Norwich scheduled an extra game with CSC, and that was the plus bump in your SOS??? And you wonder why people don't think highly of the program.....

You just made my original point – you really believe that Norwich scheduled a second game with Castleton just to boost Castleton’s SOS????

I see three things wrong with you haughty statement
1) Norwich’s SOS got a bump
2) Next year they have to play twice, so might as well get used to it
3) Norwich did not offer to play them until CSC joined the ECAC East because it would not give Norwich’s SOS a bump

Now you have shown why people believe that there are a couple of teams in Vermont that seem want to keep them in their place so to speak.

 

[AldenPartridge1819]

Re: Post all your cries whines, objections, complaints here

You just made my original point – you really believe that Norwich scheduled a second game with Castleton just to boost Castleton’s SOS????

I see three things wrong with you haughty statement
1) Norwich’s SOS got a bump
2) Next year they have to play twice, so might as well get used to it
3) Norwich did not offer to play them until CSC joined the ECAC East because it would not give Norwich’s SOS a bump

Now you have shown why people believe that there are a couple of teams in Vermont that seem want to keep them in their place so to speak.

That is not what he was saying at all. He was simply pointing out that NU was one of the few high quality teams that Castleton was able to schedule a non-conference game with.

As to your points:
1) I think it was more about building an in-state rivalry and building hockey in the state in general
2) The game was scheduled before the interlock was disbanded.
3) Castleton has been in the ECAC East since they became a varsity program.

 

[jerrynu26]

Re: Post all your cries whines, objections, complaints here

You just made my original point – you really believe that Norwich scheduled a second game with Castleton just to boost Castleton’s SOS????

I see three things wrong with you haughty statement
1) Norwich’s SOS got a bump
2) Next year they have to play twice, so might as well get used to it
3) Norwich did not offer to play them until CSC joined the ECAC East because it would not give Norwich’s SOS a bump

Now you have shown why people believe that there are a couple of teams in Vermont that seem want to keep them in their place so to speak.

No, that is NOT why Norwich scheduled an extra game against CSC. But that was the effect for CSC, long before anyone knew how the seasons would go.
1- How would anyone know the SOS would get a bump from a game scheduled that early? They wouldn't. Yet Norwich scheduled it.
2- THe decision to disband had not been made when that game was scheduled.
3-Norwich never offered to schedule them before they joined the East because they were a CLUB team, not a VARSITY team. Do you not see the difference????.

Any more points?

 

[CSC Dad]

Re: Post all your cries whines, objections, complaints here

That is not what he was saying at all. He was simply pointing out that NU was one of the few high quality teams that Castleton was able to schedule a non-conference game with.

As to your points:
1) I think it was more about building an in-state rivalry and building hockey in the state in general
2) The game was scheduled before the interlock was disbanded.
3) Castleton has been in the ECAC East since they became a varsity program.

Your statement does not reflect the words JerryNU26 wrote. I agree with most of your statements. The demise of the Interlock had been a hot topic for sometime before the actual and I believe was part of the picture for scheduling this game. It also meant selling a few hundred more tickets for Norwich which was a benefit for them, as I expect Castleton would have wanted the game in Rutland if the regular season game was in Northfield. I respect most Norwich posters, however to actually infer that Norwich gratuitously helped Castleton out solely to build up Castleton's SOS is disingenuous. Norwich received as much benefit as Castleton.

Castleton played one year as an independent - if Jerry's statement was about that year then he would have reason to be insulted.

I realize the Castleton has to build their own reputation and provide things like a boost to the oppositions SOS to play the best teams. As I said earlier, Neumann and Manhattanville were two teams that nobody wanted to play in NC games 5-6 years ago, but now they can get on many teams schedules because of their status as teams that boost SOS.

Castleton might have to look at the format of the Rutland Herald Invitational as the original premise was to bring in one team from the SUNYAC, NESCAC and another team. The first three years it was Neumann. Castleton gave oppurtunities the first couple of years by scheduling Morrisville and Becker during those team's first years of play. However I am not naive enough to realize that Castleton had little to lose at that time. Now they need to try and bring higher level teams to the field.

One last point - NUProf was right - Castleton has to take care of business in their own program. More discipline and find a way to win the conference title outright to get the AQ. Certainly, they at least need to play on the second day of the Conference Finals weekend. Who knows they might have been a "lucky loser" if they had this year.

 

[CSC Dad]

Re: Post all your cries whines, objections, complaints here

3-Norwich never offered to schedule them before they joined the East because they were a CLUB team, not a VARSITY team. Do you not see the difference????.

Any more points?

Castleton played their 1st year as a D3 Varsity Independant (2003-04), prior to joining the ECAC East. Norwich did not schedule them that year. I do agree that it was in Castleton's best interest that the game did not take place that year. However your original statement would have had meaning if it applied to Norwich scheduling Castleton that year.

 

[jerrynu26]

Re: Post all your cries whines, objections, complaints here

Castleton played their 1st year as a D3 Varsity Independant (2003-04), prior to joining the ECAC East. Norwich did not schedule them that year. I do agree that it was in Castleton's best interest that the game did not take place that year. However your original statement would have had meaning if it applied to Norwich scheduling Castleton that year.

A technicality. They were still, for all intents, a club team.

 

[CSC Dad]

Re: Post all your cries whines, objections, complaints here

A technicality. They were still, for all intents, a club team.

Wow

 

[nysportsfan29]

Re: Post all your cries whines, objections, complaints here

Just wanted to dip my toe into the pool real quick.

First thing I'll say is that I neither like nor dislike Castleton as I've never seen them play. As a fan of an Eastern team I would have been just fine seeing them get in the tournament for the 8-3 split.

I realize the Castleton has to build their own reputation and provide things like a boost to the oppositions SOS to play the best teams. As I said earlier, Neumann and Manhattanville were two teams that nobody wanted to play in NC games 5-6 years ago, but now they can get on many teams schedules because of their status as teams that boost SOS.

Manhattanville has not had a losing season in over a decade. Their last (and only) losing season was in 1999-2000 - the first year the program played in Division III according to USCHO. So while I don't claim to know why or even if teams avoided scheduling them 5-6 years ago, it doesn't seem that other teams' SOS would be lowered by facing the Valiants.

A technicality. They were still, for all intents, a club team.

I also don't claim to know what Jerry was thinking here, but I can provide my own opinion/reasons as to why he made this statement.

First off, Castleton only played 19 games that year. The NCAA says that D III teams get 25 regular season tilts and Castleton didn't use their full allotment.

Also, teams going from club programs to actually being a part of the NCAA as an independent have not fared well recently. I'm certainly not the biggest D III hockey history buff on here so the only other two examples I know offhand are Morrisville and Neumann. Morrisville was only an independent for the 06-07 season before joining the SUNYAC. Neumann was independent for 3 seasons: 98-01 before joining the ECAC West. The collective records of those 5 seasons is 21-76-2 and a winning percentage somewhere in the neighborhood of .200-.250

Finally, I would guess that Castleton probably used at least some players from their club team that first year as an independent. Most of the team was comprised of freshmen, but all of their upperclassmen had no D3 hockey experience before the 2003-2004 season (again, according to USCHO).

 

[VT bragging rights]

Re: Post all your cries whines, objections, complaints here

As NUProf posted earlier if you want to go to the dance you had better win the AQ. With the demise of the inter-lock next year the SOS for both Norwich & Castleton will probably drop. Norwich has been in the NCAA’s 10 of the last 13 years. The only time they received a Pool C bid was 06-07 and Oswego beat them 3-0 in the quarters. With the MASCAC getting an AQ next year there will be more teams competing for the 3 Pool C bids. The ECAC-East AQ winner will probably have to go through Norwich and do this in the confines of Kreitzberg Arena in Northfield.

 

[NUProf]

Re: Post all your cries whines, objections, complaints here

Your SOS depends on two factors. First, how does your conference fare in NC games. The second factor is what kind of a NC schedule can you put together. This is where Neumann and UWS were able to get the kind of SOS numbers that they did. Both the ECAC W and the NCHA as conferences had good results in their NC games. The interlock teams did not do well out of the interlock this year. Both Neumann and UWS scheduled teams that had good records. Next year will depend at lot on whether or not the bottom DIII teams in the league can improve their NC records. UNE needs to improve, and USM needs to return to the point they were at a few years ago.

 

[1985]

Re: Post all your cries whines, objections, complaints here

Your SOS depends on two factors. First, how does your conference fare in NC games. The second factor is what kind of a NC schedule can you put together. This is where Neumann and UWS were able to get the kind of SOS numbers that they did. Both the ECAC W and the NCHA as conferences had good results in their NC games. The interlock teams did not do well out of the interlock this year. Both Neumann and UWS scheduled teams that had good records. Next year will depend at lot on whether or not the bottom DIII teams in the league can improve their NC records. UNE needs to improve, and USM needs to return to the point they were at a few years ago.

But this SOS for these 2 teams comes from a 5 and 6 team conf that played each other 3 times each and if "once ranked always ranked" thata certainly helps the SOS where as Castleton and Norwich both playe (other than the 2 against each other)teams only 1 time

 

[NUProf]

Re: Post all your cries whines, objections, complaints here

But this SOS for these 2 teams comes from a 5 and 6 team conf that played each other 3 times each and if "once ranked always ranked" thata certainly helps the SOS where as Castleton and Norwich both playe (other than the 2 against each other)teams only 1
time

It still depends on the out of conference winning percentage of the teams in your league. Yes if you play somebody 3 times, their OOC record is 3X as important as if you only played the team once. If you play everybody 3 times and one of your teams is a team that doesn't win in OOC games it kills you. Playing Tufts and UNE has pretty much the same effect as playing UNE twice and Tufts not at all. Once ranked always ranked just increases the number of ranked teams. At any point in time 1/3 of the regional teams are ranked. Ranked teams are mixed blessing in your schedule. They help your OWP, but losses to ranked teams are killers.

 

[joecct]

Re: Post all your cries whines, objections, complaints here

Prof and with only 21 games counting for the ECAC-E teams next year, those OOC games become VERY important.

Cupcakes should be off the menu.