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Polls! Please List a Top 25 and NOT a Top 10

F

FredDavenport

Registered User
For 25 years I have been chirping that the college men's and women's ice hockey polls should be listing a Top 25 and NOT 15 - (Men's USAToday), 20 (Men - USCHO) and 10 (Women - USCHO).

Sad, when we have 16 teams in the men's ice hockey bracket and only 15 in the USA Today poll. Makes no sense!

We need promote our sports and help all the universities who invest millions in their programs get some national ranking for their men's and women's programs

You can do the research, but many sports list more than the what men's ice hockey and women's ice hockey list in their national poll.

Women's Water Polo
Men's Water Polo
Field Hockey
Men's Lacrosse
Women's Lacrosse

all list more than the 15/10 the men's and women's ice hockey list in their national polls.

Hope those that make these decisions will promote men's and women's ice hockey even more than they have done in the past.

Please, Please, Please list a Top 25 for men's and women's ice hockey in all your polls.
 
Re: Polls! Please List a Top 25 and NOT a Top 10

So Men's Hockey D1 is 15-20 teams or about 25-30+ percent and Womens with 10 is about 30+ percent .....seems fair.

Plus others that receive votes....
 
Re: Polls! Please List a Top 25 and NOT a Top 10

FredDavenport said:
all list more than the 15/10 the men's and women's ice hockey list in their national polls.
Click to expand...

Yes, but what percentage of their total participants do they list?

There are only 35 teams playing D-I women's hockey, including Sacred Heart. You want 25 of those 35 ranked??


Powers &8^]
 
Re: Polls! Please List a Top 25 and NOT a Top 10

LtPowers said:
Yes, but what percentage of their total participants do they list?

There are only 35 teams playing D-I women's hockey, including Sacred Heart. You want 25 of those 35 ranked??


Powers &8^]
Click to expand...

Sacred Heart and Holy Cross don't count, so that would be 25 of 33. Ten in the polls is just fine.
 
Re: Polls! Please List a Top 25 and NOT a Top 10

Hux said:
Sacred Heart and Holy Cross don't count, so that would be 25 of 33. Ten in the polls is just fine.
Click to expand...

If we're being technical, I didn't count Holy Cross. So 34.


Powers &8^]
 
Re: Polls! Please List a Top 25 and NOT a Top 10

I agree with Fred; a top 25 would generate more interest in the sport and garner more recognition for the rest of programs.
 
Re: Polls! Please List a Top 25 and NOT a Top 10

backcheck said:
I agree with Fred; a top 25 would generate more interest in the sport and garner more recognition for the rest of programs.
Click to expand...

In women's hockey, that means that a team with a 33% winning percentage might be ranked. Don't you think that seems weird?


Powers &8^]
 
Re: Polls! Please List a Top 25 and NOT a Top 10

Top 10 + teams getting a vote is enough
25-33 team would just make the ones that don't make the list at all feel like crap and ranking (not the teams) below
the teams getting votes in the poll is irrelevant
 
Re: Polls! Please List a Top 25 and NOT a Top 10

Preseason top 25 based on USCHO top 10 and coach's polls in the four leagues:

1. Minnesota
2. Boston College
3. Clarkson
4. Cornell
5. Boston University
6. Wisconsin
7. Mercyhurst
8. North Dakota
9. Harvard
10. Northeastern

also receiving votes
11. Minnesota-Duluth
12. Quinnipiac
13. Ohio State
14. Dartmouth

off into uncharted territory from here
15. Providence
16. Saint Lawrence
17. Minnesota State-Mankato
18. New Hampshire

starting to feel a little weird down here though
19. Syracuse
20. Princeton
21. Robert Morris
22. Bemidji State
23. Vermont
24. RPI
25. Colgate

Seems to me like it gets pretty squishy down there towards the end.

Now what?

26. Saint Cloud
27. Yale
28. Maine
29. Penn State
30. Brown
31. Lindenwood
32. RIT
33. UConn
34. Union

I think top 10 is plenty, maybe more than enough.
 
Re: Polls! Please List a Top 25 and NOT a Top 10

ManBehindTheCurtain said:
Preseason top 25 based on USCHO top 10 and coach's polls in the four leagues:

1. Minnesota
2. Boston College
3. Clarkson
4. Cornell
5. Boston University
6. Wisconsin
7. Mercyhurst
8. North Dakota
9. Harvard
10. Northeastern

also receiving votes
11. Minnesota-Duluth
12. Quinnipiac
13. Ohio State
14. Dartmouth

off into uncharted territory from here
15. Providence
16. Saint Lawrence
17. Minnesota State-Mankato
18. New Hampshire

starting to feel a little weird down here though
19. Syracuse
20. Princeton
21. Robert Morris
22. Bemidji State
23. Vermont
24. RPI
25. Colgate

Seems to me like it gets pretty squishy down there towards the end.

Now what?

26. Saint Cloud
27. Yale
28. Maine
29. Penn State
30. Brown
31. Lindenwood
32. RIT
33. UConn
34. Union

I think top 10 is plenty, maybe more than enough.
Click to expand...

YES....what he said!!
 
Re: Polls! Please List a Top 25 and NOT a Top 10

ManBehindTheCurtain said:
Seems to me like it gets pretty squishy down there towards the end.
Click to expand...

The problem isn't that it gets squishy towards the end; it's that it gets really squishy towards the middle. Like a lot of things in the universe, the distribution of team quality in a league approximately normal.* So while there is real separation between teams at the very top and the very bottom there really isn't between the teams in the middle. And frankly, "the middle" starts well before you get to the tenth team when there are only 33 to draw from. So aside from the other reasons presented as to why a Top 25 is pointless, throw in that the majority of the slots on any voter's ballot tell you more about the voter than they do about the teams because it's pretty much random guessing to rank them.

*Only approximately; the upper tail is longer than the lower tail due to teams drawing from the extreme upside of the pool of individual talent.
 
Re: Polls! Please List a Top 25 and NOT a Top 10

stanleycup said:
RIT should be much higher than 32...
Click to expand...
And that's the problem with asking people to rank 25 teams. Voters are probably willing to dedicate a set amount of time to the process, whether voting for 10 or 25. If it is 25, who has time every week to sit there and try to figure out whether RIT should be above or below a Princeton team that won't start playing for a few more weeks. For those asking for an expansion of the poll, if you want to know where your team stands, there are several computer models that will give you an approximation. Likely, that will be more accurate than some human compelled to rank 25 teams.
 
Re: Polls! Please List a Top 25 and NOT a Top 10

The poll should remain a Top 10, IMHO.

Note that this somewhat against my selfish interest; according to MBTC's poll my team lands at #13. So we'd be included in a Top 15 but not a Top 10.

But objectively speaking, the Top 10 makes perfect sense for Women's D-1. That's the top quartile, rounded up. It's also the size of the NCAA Field, plus two bubble teams. In other words, at the current size, it's already generous -- but only slightly so. To me, that's exactly what we're looking for.

There is a basic philosophical question here. I believe what most of us are saying is that in order to be ranked, a team should achieve a certain level of excellence. Competent participation, while clearly something to be proud of, shouldn't be treated in the same way as excellence.

I also agree with the posters who have pointed out the difficulties of accurately ranking the teams in the middle of the pack.
 
Re: Polls! Please List a Top 25 and NOT a Top 10

Top 10 is just fine, add in a few teams that receive votes and you get a good view of the top 12 or so.

Others have already explained valid reasons that I agree with. Bell Curve of 35 teams suggests top 10 reaches well into the median part within the first STD. Teams in that region of the curve are hard to rank in order.

Secondly top 10 plus a few plays well into the view of the list that has the best crack at the tourney at years end. Invariably the 7-10 placings change a lot over the year with many teams moving into and out of the top ten into/out of those spots.
 
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Re: Polls! Please List a Top 25 and NOT a Top 10

With relatively so few college hockey teams out there, I prefer the whole enchilada. Don't like to stop at 10, or 20, or 25. I like to see how they all stack up, best to not so best. Myhockeyrankings.com does a nice job with this. Definitely can appreciate the succinctness of a top 10 poll, however.
 
Re: Polls! Please List a Top 25 and NOT a Top 10

OnMAA said:
Top 10 is just fine, add in a few teams that receive votes and you get a good view of the top 12 or so.
Click to expand...

and that's all you need to know
with 8 teams in the tournament it is likely in any year that it is the top 12 or so fighting for those 8 spots
 
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