USCHO Fan Forum
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.
Patty Kaz 2012 - Top Three
- Thread starter CrazyDave
- Start date
JosephPSchmoe
I'll say it if you won't
Re: Patty Kaz 2012 - Top Three
Decker. Won't be close.
Decker. Won't be close.
NUWH DogHouse
The Voice From Above
Re: Patty Kaz 2012 - Top Three
Exactly who I said would be here. We will see what matters more a great defense or really good offense.
Exactly who I said would be here. We will see what matters more a great defense or really good offense.
brookyone
Deport Right Wing Nuts
Re: Patty Kaz 2012 - Top Three
Since it isn't a public poll, I'll fess up. My vote went to J Lam. I think the edge is with the forwards. Not necessarily endorsing that but seems to be the reality most often.
I suspect it is / will be close myself given the attributes of all.
Since it isn't a public poll, I'll fess up. My vote went to J Lam. I think the edge is with the forwards. Not necessarily endorsing that but seems to be the reality most often.
I suspect it is / will be close myself given the attributes of all.
Re: Patty Kaz 2012 - Top Three
Being a die-hard Gopher fan, I'm not exactly thrilled with either choice, but I think one of the two will win (rather than Schelling).
Lamoureux also had 12 more penalties for 24 more minutes in the sin bin.
Being a die-hard Gopher fan, I'm not exactly thrilled with either choice, but I think one of the two will win (rather than Schelling).
JosephPSchmoe
I'll say it if you won't
Re: Patty Kaz 2012 - Top Three
Decker finished ahead in goals per game and game-winning goals, which might count for more. The penalties could hurt Lamoureux. She finished #2 in the league in penalties, second only to her sister. Read whatever you like into that stat, but I'm guessing it matters.
Decker finished ahead in goals per game and game-winning goals, which might count for more. The penalties could hurt Lamoureux. She finished #2 in the league in penalties, second only to her sister. Read whatever you like into that stat, but I'm guessing it matters.
Dr. Seuss Fan
New member
Re: Patty Kaz 2012 - Top Three
Gotta go with Schelling - she had fewer penalties
Gotta go with Schelling - she had fewer penalties
NUWH DogHouse
The Voice From Above
Re: Patty Kaz 2012 - Top Three
A perfect angel.
Gotta go with Schelling - she had fewer penalties
A perfect angel.
Re: Patty Kaz 2012 - Top Three
Wow, that has to be as evenly divided a poll as I can remember.
As for predicting who will win, at least between Decker & JLam: We know Decker was generally the better performer against the best teams, as others detailed in the other Kaz thread. We also know that JLam had more total points and didn't have quite the same talent to work with as Decker. We know JLam has a 3.87 GPA, which has to be significantly better than Decker's GPA. We know Decker was WCHA POTY. Was the WCHA POTY really a close call so that JLam will now take the Kaz due to the additional academic criteria? Or is Decker just a much more dominant player, so that the academic advantage just won't be enough to put JLam over the top? That's what it comes down to.
Wow, that has to be as evenly divided a poll as I can remember.
As for predicting who will win, at least between Decker & JLam: We know Decker was generally the better performer against the best teams, as others detailed in the other Kaz thread. We also know that JLam had more total points and didn't have quite the same talent to work with as Decker. We know JLam has a 3.87 GPA, which has to be significantly better than Decker's GPA. We know Decker was WCHA POTY. Was the WCHA POTY really a close call so that JLam will now take the Kaz due to the additional academic criteria? Or is Decker just a much more dominant player, so that the academic advantage just won't be enough to put JLam over the top? That's what it comes down to.
JosephPSchmoe
I'll say it if you won't
Re: Patty Kaz 2012 - Top Three
I think it's more of a hockey award than an academic award. From the Kaz website:
Almost sounds like academics was an afterthought.
I think it's more of a hockey award than an academic award. From the Kaz website:
Almost sounds like academics was an afterthought.
ARM
Fan of chipmunk-like mascots.
Re: Patty Kaz 2012 - Top Three
Sure, but I don't think it can be written off to that degree. I'm sure academics didn't hurt the candidacy of all of the Harvard players that have won, or people like Bauer, Bendus, or Duggan. Yes, you have to be a great hockey player, but at this stage, everyone is.
Re: Patty Kaz 2012 - Top Three
Exactly, but some consideration is given to academics and that's one potential reason why the Kaz outcome may differ from WCHA Player of the Year. Also USA Hockey makes the GPAs salient on the ballot - a really mediocre GPA can hurt, though all these players must be decent to have made it this far. You're right though that strong academics won't make up a huge difference in performance, so is Decker significantly better on the ice than JLam or was it really close? My instinct is JLam needed to be a bit better against the big 3 to win this, but we can debate.
Exactly, but some consideration is given to academics and that's one potential reason why the Kaz outcome may differ from WCHA Player of the Year. Also USA Hockey makes the GPAs salient on the ballot - a really mediocre GPA can hurt, though all these players must be decent to have made it this far. You're right though that strong academics won't make up a huge difference in performance, so is Decker significantly better on the ice than JLam or was it really close? My instinct is JLam needed to be a bit better against the big 3 to win this, but we can debate.
Re: Patty Kaz 2012 - Top Three
I know I was curious how the voting worked to get to where we are now in the process and I thought others might be interested as well.
Please correct me if I am wrong but I got the info from this link...http://www.buckys5thquarter.com/2012/3/1/2836531/knight-decker-named-top-10-patty-kaz-finalists
"The award selection process began in late February, when NCAA Division I women's ice hockey coaches were asked to nominate players for the award. Players who were nominated by two or more coaches were then placed on an official ballot, which was then sent back to the coaches to vote for the top 10 finalists. The independent accounting firm PricewaterhouseCoopers, LLP, tabulated the ballots.
The three finalists, including the recipient of the Patty Kazmaier Memorial Award, will be chosen by a 13-member selection committee comprised of NCAA Division I women's ice hockey coaches, representatives of the print and broadcast media, an at-large member and a representative of USA Hockey, the national governing body for the sport of ice hockey in the United States."
Does anybody know who is on the 13 member committee that chooses the winner from the 3 finalists? I am guessing that it is public knowledge who sits on the committee.
I know I was curious how the voting worked to get to where we are now in the process and I thought others might be interested as well.
Please correct me if I am wrong but I got the info from this link...http://www.buckys5thquarter.com/2012/3/1/2836531/knight-decker-named-top-10-patty-kaz-finalists
"The award selection process began in late February, when NCAA Division I women's ice hockey coaches were asked to nominate players for the award. Players who were nominated by two or more coaches were then placed on an official ballot, which was then sent back to the coaches to vote for the top 10 finalists. The independent accounting firm PricewaterhouseCoopers, LLP, tabulated the ballots.
The three finalists, including the recipient of the Patty Kazmaier Memorial Award, will be chosen by a 13-member selection committee comprised of NCAA Division I women's ice hockey coaches, representatives of the print and broadcast media, an at-large member and a representative of USA Hockey, the national governing body for the sport of ice hockey in the United States."
Does anybody know who is on the 13 member committee that chooses the winner from the 3 finalists? I am guessing that it is public knowledge who sits on the committee.
Re: Patty Kaz 2012 - Top Three
The committee chooses the three & winner from the 10. It does not choose the winner from the three.
I don't believe the current committee is public knowledge, but it gets announced at the award dinner every year and I think it's typically on the program. Some years USCHO has reported it, like this one (see the sidebar).
The committee chooses the three & winner from the 10. It does not choose the winner from the three.
I don't believe the current committee is public knowledge, but it gets announced at the award dinner every year and I think it's typically on the program. Some years USCHO has reported it, like this one (see the sidebar).
puckskillz
New member
Re: Patty Kaz 2012 - Top Three
It probably requires the right circumstances for goaltenders to overcome the visibility that the top scorers get. Vetter had an amzing yr and she and her team were able to distinguish themselves. I'm not sure Northeasterns' season, though terrific, accomplished the same separation. As far as the fwds I would agree with the earlier comments about penalty minutes. Decker has displayed the ability to play hard-nosed and aggressively without taking undisciplined and ill-timed penalties. She does not disadvantage her team which can be just as important as scoring/creating offense.
It probably requires the right circumstances for goaltenders to overcome the visibility that the top scorers get. Vetter had an amzing yr and she and her team were able to distinguish themselves. I'm not sure Northeasterns' season, though terrific, accomplished the same separation. As far as the fwds I would agree with the earlier comments about penalty minutes. Decker has displayed the ability to play hard-nosed and aggressively without taking undisciplined and ill-timed penalties. She does not disadvantage her team which can be just as important as scoring/creating offense.
northhockey
New member
Re: Patty Kaz 2012 - Top Three
Wisconsin and UND plays the MAJORITY of its games against common opponents. Wisconsin is a better team and has better players around Decker. Yet, JLam scores more points, assists, goals, etc. and has a better GPA. I would expect Joc to not be as great against the top 3 compared to how Decker did against the top 3 because teams can focus more on the fewer weapons, while teams facing Wisconsin can't focus in on Decker because you will get burned by the numerous other top caliber players.
Wisconsin and UND plays the MAJORITY of its games against common opponents. Wisconsin is a better team and has better players around Decker. Yet, JLam scores more points, assists, goals, etc. and has a better GPA. I would expect Joc to not be as great against the top 3 compared to how Decker did against the top 3 because teams can focus more on the fewer weapons, while teams facing Wisconsin can't focus in on Decker because you will get burned by the numerous other top caliber players.
northhockey
New member
Re: Patty Kaz 2012 - Top Three
So your saying Decker has more ice time yet less points?
So your saying Decker has more ice time yet less points?
granddaddyscout
Registered User
Re: Patty Kaz 2012 - Top Three
I would bet that Decker has less overall ice time as a result of being part of a stronger roster, UW rolls all 3 lines most of the game with occasional support from the 4th (2-4 shifts a game at most).
Here are some interesting comparisons though. They played against each other 4 times Decker had 5 goals and 5 assists, she was plus 3 and 4 at home and plus 4 and 1 on the road. She only plays 1 period though in that second game as she received a 5/game for hitting J or M from behind. In 10 periods plus 1 OT of play she was +10 with 10 points and much of that time she was going head to head with JL. By comparison JL had 3 goals and 4 assists she was -3 and -1 at UW and even both games at home. JL played 12 periods plus 2 OTs earning her 7 points.
I think these are some of the best comparisons since they were matched up head to head for much of the game, Decker seems to get the nod with a lot less ice time over these 4 games. To be fair JL had far less penalty minutes with only 4 compared to Decker's 15 for the series.
So your saying Decker has more ice time yet less points?
I would bet that Decker has less overall ice time as a result of being part of a stronger roster, UW rolls all 3 lines most of the game with occasional support from the 4th (2-4 shifts a game at most).
Here are some interesting comparisons though. They played against each other 4 times Decker had 5 goals and 5 assists, she was plus 3 and 4 at home and plus 4 and 1 on the road. She only plays 1 period though in that second game as she received a 5/game for hitting J or M from behind. In 10 periods plus 1 OT of play she was +10 with 10 points and much of that time she was going head to head with JL. By comparison JL had 3 goals and 4 assists she was -3 and -1 at UW and even both games at home. JL played 12 periods plus 2 OTs earning her 7 points.
I think these are some of the best comparisons since they were matched up head to head for much of the game, Decker seems to get the nod with a lot less ice time over these 4 games. To be fair JL had far less penalty minutes with only 4 compared to Decker's 15 for the series.