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Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

so Pirelli is changing the tire compounds to allow for fewer pit stops in F1.

it sure sounds like Red Bull's crying is paying off. After all they just had their asses handed to them and it appears it's just Vettel and Hamilton crying about the tires. Unreal. Yeah, go ahead make the tires harder and watch RB win every race and open up 15-20 second leads:(

Pirelli claims it has nothing to do with Red Bull's crying, ah, whining, ah, complaining. (Though, I am talking to Pirelli about buying a bridge in Brooklyn. They seem to be interested...)

Red Bull is also downplaying the change, saying Pirelli needs to do this to save the tire manufacturer's reputation. (Just heard, Red Bull may go in on that bridge purchase...)
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

David Coulthard agrees with you. I think it would be great if the change made no difference for Red Bull what so ever.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

David Coulthard agrees with you. I think it would be great if the change made no difference for Red Bull what so ever.

That would be great!

And in one of the worst kept secrets...Honda is coming back to F1 in 2015 and will supply enginges to McLaren.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

Pirelli claims it has nothing to do with Red Bull's crying, ah, whining, ah, complaining. (Though, I am talking to Pirelli about buying a bridge in Brooklyn. They seem to be interested...)

Red Bull is also downplaying the change, saying Pirelli needs to do this to save the tire manufacturer's reputation. (Just heard, Red Bull may go in on that bridge purchase...)

Like anyone's gonna believe that. Yes, the supersoft tyres lasting 4 laps like that one race was really stupid, but this last race wasn't unreasonable. I think if a car is easy on tyres, it's easy on tyres; Ferarri will get by with a 1-2 stopper on the new tyres and RB will have to do 2-3. It was amazing to see Merc get the pole, then just fade to also-ran status. I don't recall a drop like that ever.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

The tire complaint that I've seen expressed elsewhere is that this year's cars were designed based on last year's tires, and then Red Bull and Mercedes were caught out when the this year's tires were significantly different in how they behaved on their chassis. Dunno if there's anything to that.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

Ed Carpenter wins the 500 pole.

what a shame. this guy couldn't make the top 15-20 in points EVER if they had no oval races. he's just not that talented.

add to that he's in the George family and that = I hate this stupid ***** and hope he finishes in 33rd place

after watching qualifying today and reading the newspapers leading up to this it's really astounding how far the INDY 500 has fallen and this is ALL 100% on Tony George. he ****ed this all up, and I'm convinced now it's ****ed up forever.

remember before the split USA Today and most major newspapers would run a full color run-down of the 11 rows of 3 with the cars pictured? yeah, that happened annually and there were special sections devoted just to this race. Now? wait until Monday. the pole position at INDY if it's on page 1 of anything outside of the Indianapolis Star sports section it will DEFINITELY be below the fold. 90% of papers it will be a side column mention or page 4-6 material. just sad beyond belief.

I'm ****ed and saddened at how far this race and the series has fallen...and to be honest, I'm bitter about it, I admit it
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

what a shame. this guy couldn't make the top 15-20 in points EVER if they had no oval races. he's just not that talented.

add to that he's in the George family and that = I hate this stupid ***** and hope he finishes in 33rd place

after watching qualifying today and reading the newspapers leading up to this it's really astounding how far the INDY 500 has fallen and this is ALL 100% on Tony George. he ****ed this all up, and I'm convinced now it's ****ed up forever.

remember before the split USA Today and most major newspapers would run a full color run-down of the 11 rows of 3 with the cars pictured? yeah, that happened annually and there were special sections devoted just to this race. Now? wait until Monday. the pole position at INDY if it's on page 1 of anything outside of the Indianapolis Star sports section it will DEFINITELY be below the fold. 90% of papers it will be a side column mention or page 4-6 material. just sad beyond belief.

I'm ****ed and saddened at how far this race and the series has fallen...and to be honest, I'm bitter about it, I admit it

I'm not quite as bitter about it as you are, but I do carry the same general feelings. I am unimpressed by Carpenter and this pole win. I doub't he has anything for the actual race but we shall see.

I do remember fondly the USA full page color picture of the cars and drivers. Ah, those were the days. :)

Ugh, did anyone read Miller's article on Speed? Ugh, his sucking up to Carpy is disgusting. I use to really like Miller and his more or less tell it like it is attitude, but now I think he has gotten too cozy with the new regime or something. He has the same tired old excuses over and over again as to why the series can't get any traction and anytime anybody suggest anything different he poo-poo's it immediately. Blah. However, he is correct I think in that Indy should only be a week long now. Show up on Monday before Memorial day, practice through Friday, qualify on Saturday, race on Sunday. Done and Done. Oh and get rid of the Fast 9 or whatever they call that crap. I like knockout qualifying on race/street courses but on oval it is just plain stupid.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

The tire complaint that I've seen expressed elsewhere is that this year's cars were designed based on last year's tires, and then Red Bull and Mercedes were caught out when the this year's tires were significantly different in how they behaved on their chassis. Dunno if there's anything to that.

Essentially, that's it in a nutshell.

However, Pirelli did say they were going to make changes this year on the direction from the FIA.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

I'm not quite as bitter about it as you are, but I do carry the same general feelings. I am unimpressed by Carpenter and this pole win. I doub't he has anything for the actual race but we shall see.

I do remember fondly the USA full page color picture of the cars and drivers. Ah, those were the days. :)

Ugh, did anyone read Miller's article on Speed? Ugh, his sucking up to Carpy is disgusting. I use to really like Miller and his more or less tell it like it is attitude, but now I think he has gotten too cozy with the new regime or something. He has the same tired old excuses over and over again as to why the series can't get any traction and anytime anybody suggest anything different he poo-poo's it immediately. Blah. However, he is correct I think in that Indy should only be a week long now. Show up on Monday before Memorial day, practice through Friday, qualify on Saturday, race on Sunday. Done and Done. Oh and get rid of the Fast 9 or whatever they call that crap. I like knockout qualifying on race/street courses but on oval it is just plain stupid.

...it just hit me this weekend.

qualifying on a small network cable station. no coverage in the papers other than p.4-6 small articles. ESPN totally ignoring the qualifying.

sunday the news was p3 in the milwaukee journal and they race here in 3 weeks. today there was a tiny articles to encapsulate and it was also on p3 or further back

I don't recall INDY being treated this poorly before but I bet it's been like this for 4-6 years or more and I'm first noticing it now as I'm scrutinizing coverage.

I hate the fact Tony George killed this series and it's made worse that he's allowed anywhere near it anymore.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

...it just hit me this weekend.

qualifying on a small network cable station. no coverage in the papers other than p.4-6 small articles. ESPN totally ignoring the qualifying.

sunday the news was p3 in the milwaukee journal and they race here in 3 weeks. today there was a tiny articles to encapsulate and it was also on p3 or further back

I don't recall INDY being treated this poorly before but I bet it's been like this for 4-6 years or more and I'm first noticing it now as I'm scrutinizing coverage.

I hate the fact Tony George killed this series and it's made worse that he's allowed anywhere near it anymore.

then don't watch.

I stopped caring about what Tony did a long time ago, and just watch to enjoy the racing. He's not the one that has odd rules that make the drivers do side by side starts on tight road courses with obvious results. He's not the one who made the rules that let drivers run WOT over a one mile oval. He may have started the problems, but the results are the hands of a lot of good intentioned people who don't really understand racing and where the real money comes from. They are getting there, with two engine suppliers. But they need more variety in the cars.

I'm pretty sure more people watch now than in all but a few years in the late 80's and early 90's. Even with the lack of sports channels. Remember, for many years, CART was mostly shown on an obscure sports network called ESPN. We've been here before.

A bigger difference- NBA, NHL, and NASCAR are all competing for eyes this weekned more than they did in the CART years.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

I read this on SPEED...

"The next on-track activity takes place on Friday as teams get their final chance to prepare for the race during Carb Day. Teams will also receive their new-spec race engines from Chevy and Honda which should give a clear indicator to which manufacturer has the power and fuel mileage to win on Sunday."

So basically practice and qualifying were just a sham since all these updated engines will get bolted into the cars for the race. This really irritates me. These new spec engines should have been in the cars the whole time they have been on track. The last week of practice has basically told us nothing. All the intrigue and excitement of looking at who is fastest and whatnot was for nothing. Plus having the race spec engines for qualifying would have ramped up the speed, I think a bunch of cars in the 230's would have got some headlines. Indycar has been making improvements overall, but this is a bungled mess of major proportions. They might as well just did a lottery for pole.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

then don't watch.

I stopped caring about what Tony did a long time ago, and just watch to enjoy the racing. He's not the one that has odd rules that make the drivers do side by side starts on tight road courses with obvious results. He's not the one who made the rules that let drivers run WOT over a one mile oval. He may have started the problems, but the results are the hands of a lot of good intentioned people who don't really understand racing and where the real money comes from. They are getting there, with two engine suppliers. But they need more variety in the cars.

I'm pretty sure more people watch now than in all but a few years in the late 80's and early 90's. Even with the lack of sports channels. Remember, for many years, CART was mostly shown on an obscure sports network called ESPN. We've been here before.

A bigger difference- NBA, NHL, and NASCAR are all competing for eyes this weekned more than they did in the CART years.

I have to disagree on fan numbers both on tv and in the stands. A quick youtube look at New Hamprshire in 93 shows the stands packed. milwaukee was packed to the hilt until the split. today they're giving away tickets practically. $33 for one race ticket and one summerfest ticket. what? $99 for one ticket and one INDY ticket.

they used to at least steadily draw 1.0 or more viewers on tv and 8.0 and up for the 500

I'm just really coming to the realization that the 500 is going down quickly and this all goes back to Tony.

having 95 reynards (or the modern equivalent) in the field wouldn't bring in the casual fans again, they don't know a reynard from a swift from a dallara. I'm honestly surprised the incredible racing of the past 2 years hasn't moved the needle at all.

in short I'm worried as a fan as to how the 500 is being treated nationally. if that goes down much further the conclusion is forgone
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

I have to disagree on fan numbers both on tv and in the stands. A quick youtube look at New Hamprshire in 93 shows the stands packed. milwaukee was packed to the hilt until the split. today they're giving away tickets practically. $33 for one race ticket and one summerfest ticket. what? $99 for one ticket and one INDY ticket.

they used to at least steadily draw 1.0 or more viewers on tv and 8.0 and up for the 500

I'm just really coming to the realization that the 500 is going down quickly and this all goes back to Tony.

having 95 reynards (or the modern equivalent) in the field wouldn't bring in the casual fans again, they don't know a reynard from a swift from a dallara. I'm honestly surprised the incredible racing of the past 2 years hasn't moved the needle at all.

in short I'm worried as a fan as to how the 500 is being treated nationally. if that goes down much further the conclusion is forgone

Well, I did say "except for the late 80's/early 90's.

Really, there's no point in worrying. It WILL change. Always has. Just watch and enjoy.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

I read this on SPEED...

"The next on-track activity takes place on Friday as teams get their final chance to prepare for the race during Carb Day. Teams will also receive their new-spec race engines from Chevy and Honda which should give a clear indicator to which manufacturer has the power and fuel mileage to win on Sunday."

So basically practice and qualifying were just a sham since all these updated engines will get bolted into the cars for the race. This really irritates me. These new spec engines should have been in the cars the whole time they have been on track. The last week of practice has basically told us nothing. All the intrigue and excitement of looking at who is fastest and whatnot was for nothing. Plus having the race spec engines for qualifying would have ramped up the speed, I think a bunch of cars in the 230's would have got some headlines. Indycar has been making improvements overall, but this is a bungled mess of major proportions. They might as well just did a lottery for pole.

I see your point, but don't agree that it's a sham. To me, just as it's aways been- qualfiying is- who is the bravest, and best driver on the very ragged edge? Trim the car to go 4 laps the fastest you can. The race is about survival. I really doubt that "race" engines would be pusing 230- more like take off a mph or two. Those things were trimmed out to peak for 4 laps. Although, that's relative, of course- it's not as if they are qualfiying grenades. But being that Honda and Chevy have enough invested in them- it's an engine change to make sure they don't blow engines during the 500.

What year was it that Mears went 2 laps down and still won? Didn't he qualify among the fastest, as well? that wasn't a sham then, and it isn't now.

IMHO, the biggest of the problems is that only 34 cars tried qualifying, and one of them never really contended. So all of the stress was actually fake. This isn't like when Penske didn't make it, or Rahal didn't make it. This was somebody letting Jourdain take a spin... that's the current problem.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2013...year of the driver swap!

I tend to agree with Alfa on the 500. I don't really care if the cars get new (better?) engines for the 500 compared to the quali engines. Much like Alfa, it's because the car setup is so different between the two.



I personally believe that the problem with Indycar is that there is nothing for the casual fan to identify with. There is no superstar driver or even a driver that is recognized outside of the hardcore racing fans (maybe Helio thanks to DWTS?). That is an issue. People like to whine about no American drivers and yet when a American wins what happens? Nothing. No promotion, not a peep about making it a bid deal. I don't think nationality makes a bit of difference to anyone younger than 40ish. My favorite baseball player is Panamanian, my favorite driver is Brazilian, there are lots of Europeans in the NBA, latins in MLB, Canadians in the NHL ( ;) ). It's more important that they have a noticable personality than what country they were born in.

There is no identifying with a car manufacturer either. There was a reason that NASCAR developed the looks of their latest car. It was so people could identify with it and root either for it or against it. Since Indy cars look alike nobody cares about them. Different engines just don't move the needle with casual fans. But cars that looked different and have a different manufacture name will. Look at F1, all the cars look pretty much the same except for a few features to a casual fan but they all have identifiable names behind them that get people care. It is all about caring about the product, people, and the manufacturers. It doesn't matter if people hate or love, as long as their passionate to some degree.

Indycar has a decent race product right now. They simply have horrible, miserable, god awful, marketing department (I assume they actually have a marketing department) that a bunch of third graders could out do. IMO, when the DW12 came out, Indycar would have been better if they had decided to keep all of the cars almost identical except for maybe one or two noticeable pieces of bodywork that have basically no impact on aero, and let manufacturers buy the naming rights. So instead of driving a Dallara, they would be driving a Dallara/Chevrolet/Chevrolet (Chassis/Aero/Engine) or a Dallara/Honda/Honda or a Dallara/Swift/Honda, etc. Yes I know those combinations are not likely but you all get my point. It would have been much better than the whole aero kits that were suppose to come but probably never will. That would have started to get a casual race fan to get some interest. There is just nothing for a casual sports fan to grab onto to and make them take interest.

I don’t personally buy the Versus/NBCSports cable network problem that people want to throw out. Yes, it is somewhat of a hindrance, but if Indycar car could market their product properly then maybe, just maybe people would seek the channel (race) out. There are plenty of channels out there that are showing programs that are much worse, yet those shows and channels exist. It’s a weak excuse in my book.

Indycar should be spending some money this weekend in conjunction with NBC to buy some ad time to promote the next race (Milwaukee right?). It would be money well spent, but of course they won’t. It’s easier to save a hundred thousand and then whine later that they can’t get ratings and can’t get people to watch or come to the races.
 
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