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Ohio State vs St. Cloud 1/18 - 1/19
- Thread starter osualum86
- Start date
Re: Ohio State vs St. Cloud 1/18 - 1/19
Let me also say at the outset that it's impossible to be comprehensive in any message board post. Even my lengthy "3 Stars" posts only cover a handful of highlights from any given game. That said, let me suggest a few points to add to the conversation:
1. Prior to the season, no one on the board, absolutely no one, was predicting that the 2013 Buckeyes were going to contend for a home ice playoff berth. The loss of last year's seniors just seemed like too much to overcome without a rebuilding year. But at this point it seems clear that the Buckeyes will be at least in the hunt for home ice until the very end. As such, they've already exceeded reasonable expectations. Of course we're still hoping for more. But comments that even inadvertently suggest that the 2013 Buckeyes are a disappointment are going to be resisted, and should be.
2. Obviously there's a difference between what's said on the message board, and what's said in the room. In the room, I'd expect the players and coaches to be disappointed with leaving a point behind on Friday, and to say so in no uncertain terms. But keeping things upbeat on the board is a good thing, at least most of the time. I, for one, get a little tired of posters who want to fire the coach and/or jump off the nearest bridge anytime there's a short slump.
3. Negatively on the board is fair game when conditions warrant. But I'm not sure the results of this season's OSU/SCSU series qualify. Now that the four games are in the books, let's take a quick look at the results: Buckeyes' Record = 3-0-1. Buckeye Goals For = 11; Buckeye Goals Against = 6. Points earned = 11 of 12. I'm going to go out on a limb and say Coach Nate can keep his job. Further, I can guarantee you that Campus Security isn't going to have to patrol the Lane Avenue Bridge tonight on my account.
Accurate and insightful, as always. And certainly not disrespectful in any way.
Let me also say at the outset that it's impossible to be comprehensive in any message board post. Even my lengthy "3 Stars" posts only cover a handful of highlights from any given game. That said, let me suggest a few points to add to the conversation:
1. Prior to the season, no one on the board, absolutely no one, was predicting that the 2013 Buckeyes were going to contend for a home ice playoff berth. The loss of last year's seniors just seemed like too much to overcome without a rebuilding year. But at this point it seems clear that the Buckeyes will be at least in the hunt for home ice until the very end. As such, they've already exceeded reasonable expectations. Of course we're still hoping for more. But comments that even inadvertently suggest that the 2013 Buckeyes are a disappointment are going to be resisted, and should be.
2. Obviously there's a difference between what's said on the message board, and what's said in the room. In the room, I'd expect the players and coaches to be disappointed with leaving a point behind on Friday, and to say so in no uncertain terms. But keeping things upbeat on the board is a good thing, at least most of the time. I, for one, get a little tired of posters who want to fire the coach and/or jump off the nearest bridge anytime there's a short slump.
3. Negatively on the board is fair game when conditions warrant. But I'm not sure the results of this season's OSU/SCSU series qualify. Now that the four games are in the books, let's take a quick look at the results: Buckeyes' Record = 3-0-1. Buckeye Goals For = 11; Buckeye Goals Against = 6. Points earned = 11 of 12. I'm going to go out on a limb and say Coach Nate can keep his job. Further, I can guarantee you that Campus Security isn't going to have to patrol the Lane Avenue Bridge tonight on my account.
ARM
Fan of chipmunk-like mascots.
Re: Ohio State vs St. Cloud 1/18 - 1/19
I like your team. I'm impressed by what they have accomplished. But if '86 wants me to think of them as a contender, and I'll concede that he was right and I was wrong, then I'm going to judge them like a contender will be judged.
Very true. Posting here has a number of limitations. One is that the post will be read by a wide range of people with different rooting interests and experience with the view of the poster. For example, I've been reading your posts on here for years, and it is my belief that if you are frustrated by your team, you are unlikely to come on here and publicly vent those frustrations to any great degree. I totally respect that.
Actually, I remember like '86 and at least one other OSU fan were of the opinion that a top four finish was possible. I thought they were dreaming, but they've been proven to be more correct than I was. I agree that the Buckeyes are still doing better than was expected. But expectations can change week to week. Nobody expected UMD to be any good at all in 2009-10. Early in the year, the Bulldogs weren't. But once a team proves to be much better than everyone once thought, dreams of what is possible shouldn't be limited by earlier low expectations. OSU can get home ice. OSU can reach the Final Face-Off. OSU can at least advance to the final, and once there, anything can happen. OSU can make its first NCAA tournament. That doesn't mean the team will have disappointed if it fails in any of these quests, but it should pursue them with every belief that the people in the room are capable of accomplishing those goals.
I agree with that. There have been a number of opinions expressed here and elsewhere by Gopher fans frustrated by some 5-0 win over a weaker team or a 6-3 win over a good one this season. At a certain point, we do have to concede that each and every player and coach on our team has a better grasp of the situation than we do. I do feel that there are things a fan is entitled to complain concerning, including things such as lack of effort or selfish/undisciplined play. The latter can be hard to judge, whether the player didn't care or honestly didn't know. But I do feel that if I drive several hours one way to support my team, it would be nice if they showed up. There will be times when something like a flu bug is going around and the spirit is willing but the body is weak. There are also games over the years where a team will stand around and watch for 40 minutes and then turn it on when too little is too late.
Agreed. But having met your coach, I can say that he understands the situation and would be as disappointed as anyone that coming off the sweep by the Badgers, the team wasn't able to secure a win on Friday. Maybe that is a case of credit to SCSU. That tie is in the past and can't be changed. Neither can it be repeated. When the Buckeyes play in Bemidji, they have to be ready for the Beavers from the first drop of the puck and can't still be thinking about what happened versus the Bulldogs.
I like your team. I'm impressed by what they have accomplished. But if '86 wants me to think of them as a contender, and I'll concede that he was right and I was wrong, then I'm going to judge them like a contender will be judged.
Re: Ohio State vs St. Cloud 1/18 - 1/19
This discussion has gotten interesting. In regard to OSU being a contender, yes, I think I may have said earlier that if we can get 'scoring by committee' and improvement defensively, we could contend for a top four spot, maybe an NCAA Tournament berth, I don't remember. I think OSU has proven themselves to be a contender, regardless of what the rest of the league thinks of us. In regard to the tie vs SCSU Friday, was I disappointed, sure, but I am not going to get on here and be negative. I am at most of the home games (miss occasionally) and interact with the players and coaches, so I, like Pgb, choose not to get on here and vent after games like Friday's. No one feels worse after games like that than the players and coaches. Coach Nate is in the process of building our program and this season is another rung of the ladder. I choose to try and keep things positive. Not sure what else to say on this one. We're setting in third place with 34 points, only three out of the second spot in the toughest league in the country. If that is not contending, not sure what is. Obviously no one is going to catch Minnesota. The battle here is for the other three home ice positions and I see us in that battle right up until the end of the regular season.
This discussion has gotten interesting. In regard to OSU being a contender, yes, I think I may have said earlier that if we can get 'scoring by committee' and improvement defensively, we could contend for a top four spot, maybe an NCAA Tournament berth, I don't remember. I think OSU has proven themselves to be a contender, regardless of what the rest of the league thinks of us. In regard to the tie vs SCSU Friday, was I disappointed, sure, but I am not going to get on here and be negative. I am at most of the home games (miss occasionally) and interact with the players and coaches, so I, like Pgb, choose not to get on here and vent after games like Friday's. No one feels worse after games like that than the players and coaches. Coach Nate is in the process of building our program and this season is another rung of the ladder. I choose to try and keep things positive. Not sure what else to say on this one. We're setting in third place with 34 points, only three out of the second spot in the toughest league in the country. If that is not contending, not sure what is. Obviously no one is going to catch Minnesota. The battle here is for the other three home ice positions and I see us in that battle right up until the end of the regular season.
Re: Ohio State vs St. Cloud 1/18 - 1/19
First rate post, ARM. And I agree with a large majority of it. A little more from my vantage point...
All that said, my previous comment was really directed toward the Women's Hockey community outside of OSU. Again my memory may be either incomplete or imperfect. But wasn't it pretty much unanimous -- among those who ventured opinions -- that the 2013 Buckeyes would be a second division team? My specific objection is that anyone who predicted a second division finish shouldn't turn around and accuse the team of underachieving when they're positioned in second or third place.
Related Point: It's an awfully fine distinction; but my perspective is that while expectations can evolve, they shouldn't lurch back and forth from week to week.
First rate post, ARM. And I agree with a large majority of it. A little more from my vantage point...
Your assessment is both accurate and fair. It's a conscious choice on my part to be as positive as possible. And should I ever feel the need to rant, a national board probably wouldn't be my first choice for the venue. On the other hand, USCHO is my favorite place to post, so I suppose one never knows.
Well, could be. I thought they were dreaming too -- but in a different sense. I remember a few pro-OSU comments that I filed away under the category of "Don't stop believing; hold on to that feeling." In other words, just pep talk. My recollection was that even the most optimistic comments stopped well short of a prediction, and that no guarantees were made. Now if I misunderstood '86 or others, my apologies. It's also possible that I simply missed some posts. I certainly don't mean to take away any bragging rights '86 may have earned.
All that said, my previous comment was really directed toward the Women's Hockey community outside of OSU. Again my memory may be either incomplete or imperfect. But wasn't it pretty much unanimous -- among those who ventured opinions -- that the 2013 Buckeyes would be a second division team? My specific objection is that anyone who predicted a second division finish shouldn't turn around and accuse the team of underachieving when they're positioned in second or third place.
Related Point: It's an awfully fine distinction; but my perspective is that while expectations can evolve, they shouldn't lurch back and forth from week to week.
Agreed on all counts.
All good stuff.
I'll let '86 build his own case for bragging rights if he's so inclined. But count me as very pleasantly surprised; I can't claim any credit for seeing this season coming.
ARM
Fan of chipmunk-like mascots.
Re: Ohio State vs St. Cloud 1/18 - 1/19
True, but I don't think that they have. After sweeping UMD on the road and splitting with UND and UW, I think it is reasonable to look at your team as having roughly the same shot as they do. Early in the season, Candace said that one advantage UW has over a team like OSU is belief. I dismissed that at the time, but now I wonder if there is more to it. Second place is there for the taking for whatever team believes it deserves that spot. There are enough games involving contenders that I think everyone likely still controls their own destiny.
Re: Ohio State vs St. Cloud 1/18 - 1/19
I've never coached an athletic team, although I have led people in many situations, and I agree with Candice. There is a big difference between "They cannot beat us" and "We think we can win" when the other factors are essentially equal. It has been my experience that if you believe you cannot win, you will lose. It appears that this year, OSU is equal and I applaud your optimism.
I've never coached an athletic team, although I have led people in many situations, and I agree with Candice. There is a big difference between "They cannot beat us" and "We think we can win" when the other factors are essentially equal. It has been my experience that if you believe you cannot win, you will lose. It appears that this year, OSU is equal and I applaud your optimism.
Re: Ohio State vs St. Cloud 1/18 - 1/19
At least at a conceptual level, Candace is absolutely correct. It's true across all sports, and up and down the various levels of competition. I've experienced it as a competitor myself, though the credit for that would certainly go to teammates rather than me. But "knowing" you have the players you need to win, bolstered by past success, results in an easy confidence. It's a huge asset; you perform better with that confidence on your side. Winning really can become a self-fullfilling prophecy.
I still say that expectations "in the room" is a somewhat separate topic from the expectations of posters and pundits. Although coaches should certainly adhere to ethical limits, their first job is to motivate. In other words, to generate that positive belief. Objective analysis isn't necessarily a top priority. In contrast, the message board posts that I admire most are those that qualify as objective analysis.
At least at a conceptual level, Candace is absolutely correct. It's true across all sports, and up and down the various levels of competition. I've experienced it as a competitor myself, though the credit for that would certainly go to teammates rather than me. But "knowing" you have the players you need to win, bolstered by past success, results in an easy confidence. It's a huge asset; you perform better with that confidence on your side. Winning really can become a self-fullfilling prophecy.
I still say that expectations "in the room" is a somewhat separate topic from the expectations of posters and pundits. Although coaches should certainly adhere to ethical limits, their first job is to motivate. In other words, to generate that positive belief. Objective analysis isn't necessarily a top priority. In contrast, the message board posts that I admire most are those that qualify as objective analysis.