Ohio State Buckeyes 2020-2021 ... Unfinished Business

[osualum86]

My original title for this thread was going to be "Erie or Bust," but I decided to go with unfinished business. This program was arguably one of the hottest teams in the country at the end of the season with wins over top five teams Minnesota and Wisconsin to claim the program's first-ever WCHA Final Faceoff Title. The Buckeyes were playing their best hockey and had as good a shot as anyone to win it all before the season came to an abrupt end. The 2020 seniors ... Elise Riemenschneider, Rebecca Freiburger, Olivia Soares, and Jincy Dunne, will be sorely missed. Everyone else will be back, so it is hard to not be excited for the upcoming season, provided there is a season (fingers crossed). Personally, I think our seniors should get another season since the NCAA cut theirs short, but that is not likely to happen since the season was only shortened by three games.

Hope all my uscho.com friends are safe and well at this time!

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2020-2021 ... Unfinished Business

My original title for this thread was going to be "Erie or Bust," but I decided to go with unfinished business.

Erie or Bust would have been fine, but I like your final answer. Even the sometimes maligned "..." fits the situation quite nicely. Well done!

This program was arguably one of the hottest teams in the country at the end of the season with wins over top five teams Minnesota and Wisconsin to claim the program's first-ever WCHA Final Faceoff Title. The Buckeyes were playing their best hockey and had as good a shot as anyone to win it all before the season came to an abrupt end.

This year 4 teams won their final playoff game. So we'll just have to be content with sharing our National Title with Mercyhurst, Northeastern & Princeton.

The 2020 seniors ... Elise Riemenschneider, Rebecca Freiburger, Olivia Soares, and Jincy Dunne, will be sorely missed. Everyone else will be back, so it is hard to not be excited for the upcoming season, provided there is a season (fingers crossed). Personally, I think our seniors should get another season since the NCAA cut theirs short, but that is not likely to happen since the season was only shortened by three games.

My understanding is that a final decision has been made: The verdict is that Spring sport athletes can get an extra year, but that Winter sport athletes may not. Whether there's scholarship support for those extra Spring seasons will vary from campus to campus. But I believe that the door has been completely closed on the Winter Seniors. (Unless there are other grounds for a redshirt)

Although losing the NCAA tournament was a horrible thing, I can't really complain about the decision. After all, 3/4 of the teams in Women's D-1 Hockey were 100% done with their seasons when shut down came.

Hope all my uscho.com friends are safe and well at this time!

I'm doing fine; hope that's true for "All 17" of us.

 

[osualum86]

Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2020-2021 ... Unfinished Business

Yeah, "Erie or Bust" would have been an acceptable subtitle, but then I thought to myself, what if the team had a really awesome season, but got beat in the NCAA Quarterfinal? Would I walk up to one of the girls, most of who I know fairly well, and tell them, "You didn't make it to Erie, so your season was a bust." That was when I decided to go with something a little milder, like "Unfinished Business." And I am sure all the girls would agree with that one! I am sure that will be the #1 goal this coming season ... to finish what they did not get to finish this past season.

I really like your idea of having those four teams that won their last games to share the 2019-20 National Championship.

As for the eligibility thing, I like to grumble about that, but yeah, I knew the NCAA would not give the winter sports athletes another year, even though it would be the right thing to do. If I am not mistaken, three of the seniors will be in grad school next year, so I hope to see them around.

Mrs 86 and I are doing fine. We are blessed, we are both able to work from home. The only downside is the food choices here in Marion are getting a little monotonous! Needless to say, we were ecstatic to hear that the restaurants will be able to open on 5/25! We ordered some supper from one of our favorite local places earlier tonight ... Ralphie's. We called it in and went to pick it up, of course. I asked the young lady who answered the phone if they would be open on the 25th. She said "Yes." I told her we would be the first in line! Heard drive-in movies open this weekend. With all the social distancing, I told Mrs 86 maybe drive-in movies would make a comeback. With everyone in their cars, social distancing wouldn't be a problem. Well, enough about that. Glad to hear you are doing fine!!

 

[ARM]

Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2020-2021 ... Unfinished Business

I really like your idea of having those four teams that won their last games to share the 2019-20 National Championship.

While I'm not going to claim that LIU should share in this mythical championship, the Sharks at least deserve a mention for having won their final playoff game and league championship.

Heard drive-in movies open this weekend. With all the social distancing, I told Mrs 86 maybe drive-in movies would make a comeback. With everyone in their cars, social distancing wouldn't be a problem.

Thinking back on some stories I've heard, it would be hard to social distance all of those people sneaking in via the trunk!

In any case, I hope that the upcoming season isn't too compromised by Covid-19, because there are some outstanding players heading into senior seasons around the country: Maltais and her linemates; Giguère, Watts, Zumwinkle, Fontaine, Frankel, Browning. I'd hate to see their careers end with just a mini-season, but I guess it is better than a year that never happens.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2020-2021 ... Unfinished Business

While I'm not going to claim that LIU should share in this mythical championship, the Sharks at least deserve a mention for having won their final playoff game and league championship.

I'll sign up for the LIU mention & the corresponding thumbs up.

To the extent there was coherent thought behind the fantasy: I'd point out that under the agreed upon rules in the real world, LIU didn't qualify for the NCAA Field of 8. As such, they weren't considered for membership in my group of co-champs. But hey: If the mythical powers-that-be want to make up a 5th trophy, they'll get no objection from me.

In any case, I hope that the upcoming season isn't too compromised by Covid-19, because there are some outstanding players heading into senior seasons around the country: Maltais and her linemates; Giguère, Watts, Zumwinkle, Fontaine, Frankel, Browning. I'd hate to see their careers end with just a mini-season, but I guess it is better than a year that never happens.

Are you just musing? Or are you detecting a buzz that a mini-season is becoming a serious possibility?

We're in such uncharted waters that anything is conceptually possible, including a totally lost season. I guess I'm wondering if the actual decision-makers are giving us any clues. For example, are contingency plans being made for a mini-season? Or is everyone from the top down just worrying out loud?

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2020-2021 ... Unfinished Business

Mrs 86 and I are doing fine. We are blessed, we are both able to work from home. The only downside is the food choices here in Marion are getting a little monotonous! Needless to say, we were ecstatic to hear that the restaurants will be able to open on 5/25! We ordered some supper from one of our favorite local places earlier tonight ... Ralphie's. We called it in and went to pick it up, of course. I asked the young lady who answered the phone if they would be open on the 25th. She said "Yes." I told her we would be the first in line! Heard drive-in movies open this weekend. With all the social distancing, I told Mrs 86 maybe drive-in movies would make a comeback. With everyone in their cars, social distancing wouldn't be a problem. Well, enough about that. Glad to hear you are doing fine!!

I am also fortunate & blessed to have a work-at-home arrangement.

Food-wise, lots of the places we like are offering carryout options, so we're doing OK there as well. It's even been budget-friendly. In Ohio, you avoid the sales tax that would apply to dine-in meals. Beverages come from the grocery store at much lower prices. And so on.

OK, it's a little awkward picking up at Jett's Pizza. The procedure is you roll down a car window, and they set down the pizza box on an empty car seat. That's after you've phoned into the store to let them know you've arrived, and given them a description of your vehicle. Also, advance payment by credit or debit is required. So it really is a no-contact pick-up. It works well enough.

 

[ARM]

Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2020-2021 ... Unfinished Business

Are you just musing? Or are you detecting a buzz that a mini-season is becoming a serious possibility?

I don't have any buzz, medicinal or otherwise. I did just read an ABC story with Mark Emmert where he did say that they won't have football until students are back on campus and what that means if some schools are back to a more traditional mode while others are online-only. Even if colleges do start going again, what happens when there is a major outbreak in some city in the fall/winter? Guessing is about all we can do in a country where the government's plans change from tweet to tweet.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2020-2021 ... Unfinished Business

I don't have any buzz, medicinal or otherwise.

I was thinking more of the "otherwise" side of the ledger: Communication that's out there, but difficult to decode.

I did just read an ABC story with Mark Emmert where he did say that they won't have football until students are back on campus and what that means if some schools are back to a more traditional mode while others are online-only. Even if colleges do start going again, what happens when there is a major outbreak in some city in the fall/winter? Guessing is about all we can do in a country where the government's plans change from tweet to tweet.

Regardless of the above, this is pretty much the answer I expected.

I was familiar with the Emmert quote. But when you used the term "mini-season," I thought just maybe someone had a Plan B in progress. But I guess we're back to the uncharted waters thing. Craving information, but no information to be had.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2020-2021 ... Unfinished Business

Heard drive-in movies open this weekend. With all the social distancing, I told Mrs 86 maybe drive-in movies would make a comeback. With everyone in their cars, social distancing wouldn't be a problem.

From Today's Columbus Dispatch:
https://www.dispatch.com/entertainm...to-usher-in-comeback-for-entertainment-sector

Sounds like you'll have some company! At a safe distance, of course. It does sound like a reasonable response to the pandemic.

 

[robertearle]

Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2020-2021 ... Unfinished Business

I really like your idea of having those four teams that won their last games to share the 2019-20 National Championship.

There have been nineteen NCAA tournament champions. The good news for this idea is that fifteen of those 19 teams also won their conference tournament. The bad news for Ohio State in particular is that most of those teams also won their regular season championships; and only four times has a team not won regular season, but then won conference tournament and national championship (Duluth 2001, Wisconsin 2009, Minnesota 2012, Wisconsin 2019). Twice teams have won their regular season, lost their conference tournament and then won the national championship (Clarkson 2014, Minnesota 2015). And twice teams have won neither their regular season championship, nor their conference championship but then managed to win the national championship (Duluth 2002 and Minnesota in 2016).

The two teams in position to do the "usual' thing and sweep all three championships this year were Northeastern and Mercyhurst.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2020-2021 ... Unfinished Business

There have been nineteen NCAA tournament champions. The good news for this idea is that fifteen of those 19 teams also won their conference tournament. The bad news for Ohio State in particular is that most of those teams also won their regular season championships; and only four times has a team not won regular season, but then won conference tournament and national championship (Duluth 2001, Wisconsin 2009, Minnesota 2012, Wisconsin 2019). Twice teams have won their regular season, lost their conference tournament and then won the national championship (Clarkson 2014, Minnesota 2015). And twice teams have won neither their regular season championship, nor their conference championship but then managed to win the national championship (Duluth 2002 and Minnesota in 2016).

The two teams in position to do the "usual' thing and sweep all three championships this year were Northeastern and Mercyhurst.

Mixed feelings on this post.

On the one hand, this is genuinely interesting stuff, and I know it took some effort to compile the list. Appreciate your work.

On the other hand, I didn't intend to seriously claim a second trophy. Hence the I employed. But if we really must to be serious about who our 2020 mythical champ would be, I'll have a go at it.

Fortunately, the large majority of NCAA titles are decided in actual competition. Much to be preferred. But that does make this particular task a bit tougher. Analogous situations are a little hard to come by. Still, the long history of D-1 Football does provide a couple of options.

Option 1: Two generations ago, mythical Football Championships were based strictly on the regular season. Bowl games were treated more as exhibitions. Showcases for the sport. Definitely more competitive than the NFL Pro Bowl, but no National Title implications. Use that as your guiding principle, and I suppose you'd focus on the Final Regular Season Polls & Pairwise Rankings at the end of the Regular Season. You'd ignore the the conference tournaments, treating them as analogous to those long ago Bowl games. Cornell would be your National Champion.

Option 2: One generation ago, mythical Football champs weren't crowned until after the bowl games. Note, though, there was no guarantee of a #1 vs. #2 match-up. That came with the BCS. Back then, it usually didn't occur. Instead, poll voters generally used regular season results as a starting point, then used bowl results to make adjustments to those rankings. So 20th Century. But there you go.

Giving full weight to both the regular season & the conference tournaments, Northeastern got the best results. Remembering that the Final Regular Season rankings are the starting point, Mercyhurst would have too many teams to climb over to make a credible claim of equivalency with Northeastern's season.

So the two approaches give us a split decision. Cornell & Northeastern share the 2020 National Championship. Shrug.

 

[ARM]

Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2020-2021 ... Unfinished Business

On the one hand, this is genuinely interesting stuff, and I know it took some effort to compile the list. Appreciate your work.

One thing to note is that it was far more common for a team to make a clean sweep of three titles in the early years of the NCAA Tournament than it has been recently. From 2003 through 2011, a team swept all three titles every year but 2009 (if we look past the messy asterisk on UMD in 2008). It hasn't been nearly as common after that run.

Option 2: ... Northeastern got the best results.

It depends on how we define "best." Mathematically, yes. But is it really that much more impressive to defeat Maine and UConn than it is to defeat Harvard or UMD and lose in OT to Princeton or Ohio State? Especially when one considers that both Wisconsin and Cornell won regular season titles over two other teams that were included in the NCAA Tournament field.

In any case, the methods of trying to recognize a winner by coming up with new rules after the fact seem a little like using a shootout to determine the winner of a game. The purist in me thinks we are best left calling it a tie, as unsatisfying as that might be. Country House may have "won" the 2019 Kentucky Derby, but my eyes and memory had a hard time adding him to the list of other K.D. champs. Once we set out to "fix" things, they are never the same. Eight teams had a chance to win the tournament. IMO, trying to raise one over the other seven would be more unfair to the seven than it is fair to the one. I recognize the presence of the Shrug, and guess that pgb knows as well as I that it is impossible to fix this with what has transpired.

 

[osualum86]

Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2020-2021 ... Unfinished Business

Thinking back on some stories I've heard, it would be hard to social distance all of those people sneaking in via the trunk!

Just so happens I know someone who did that back in the day.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2020-2021 ... Unfinished Business

Once we set out to "fix" things, they are never the same. Eight teams had a chance to win the tournament. IMO, trying to raise one over the other seven would be more unfair to the seven than it is fair to the one. I recognize the presence of the Shrug, and guess that pgb knows as well as I that it is impossible to fix this with what has transpired.

Correct. Though skeptical, I tried to play along with the serious angle. There is something to be said for thinking things through. But in the end, my heart wasn't in it.

Even so, I posted what I came up with. Why? In part, to make the point you're making. With this particular exercise, you're unlikely to find a satisfying answer.

My original comment was just a little plug for a group of underdog teams that had conference tournaments to be proud of. It wasn't a request for peer review.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2020-2021 ... Unfinished Business

The purist in me thinks we are best left calling it a tie, as unsatisfying as that might be.

I don't want anything to do with calling this year's NCAA tournament an eight way tie. But I do have one thought that might be a friendly amendment.

Shouldn't all 8 teams get credit for an NCAA appearance? After all, a final decision was made as to which teams qualified, and the pairings were set. No one did anything to forfeit, or to deserve disqualification. In particular, shouldn't the 4 At-Large teams be recognized for the body of work that earned them berths?

Sure, add the asterisk. But in all 8 cases the NCAA berths were earned through on-ice accomplishments.

 

[ARM]

Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2020-2021 ... Unfinished Business

It wasn't a request for peer review.

That's the trouble with Internet forums. The people who offer an unsolicited opinion are seldom the ones from whom you wish to hear.

I don't want anything to do with calling this year's NCAA tournament an eight way tie.

I didn't mean a tie as in a tie for the title, but more akin to calling a regular-season game a tie. It's an unsatisfying result, to be sure, but in some ways preferable to trying to jump through hoops to determine an artificial winner. Bad phrasing on my part; undetermined champion would be closer to what I mean.

As for crediting an appearance, I imagine that we'll all have to add a few extra words at times to say that Team X qualified for its mth consecutive NCAA Tournament and nth overall.

 

[robertearle]

Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2020-2021 ... Unfinished Business

As for crediting an appearance, I imagine that we'll all have to add a few extra words at times to say that Team X qualified for its mth consecutive NCAA Tournament and nth overall.

Wisconsin was, or is, on a "12 out of the last 14" into the Frozen Four, with the other two being "did not make the field". That certainly gets an "asterisk".

(Man, this whole thing sucks on SO many levels.)

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: Ohio State Buckeyes 2020-2021 ... Unfinished Business

That's the trouble with Internet forums. The people who offer an unsolicited opinion are seldom the ones from whom you wish to hear.

You and robertearle are always welcome here. There can be moments of disconnect when visiting another team's thread; but we do OK. Usually common ground can be found. I know it's a low bar, but the USCHO Women's Hockey Board is more civil than most sports forums on the net.

As for crediting an appearance, I imagine that we'll all have to add a few extra words at times to say that Team X qualified for its mth consecutive NCAA Tournament and nth overall.

That's a good suggestion. Just using the word "qualified" shouldn't be a difficult adjustment.

(Man, this whole thing sucks on SO many levels.)

And on this we can all agree.

 

[osualum86]

The Buckeyes didn't get off to the start they wanted today, despite outshooting Minnesota 36-18. Give the Gophers a lot of credit for shutting out Ohio State 4-0 in this one. Grace Zumwinkle scored twice for the Gophers. Josey Dunne scored her first goal in a Minnesota uniform, and Taylor Wente added an empty-net goal to round out the scoring. Buckeye backstop Andrea Braendli saved 14 of the 18 shots she faced and Gopher goaltender Lauren Bench stopped all 36 shots she faced to get the win. The two teams are back at it tomorrow with game time being 3:07 pm EST.

 

[Steamboat]

With the head to head virtually even, (7 - 9 - 2 Ohio State), and Coach Muzerall knowing so much about Minnesota, Sunday's game will be the real eyeopener for these two teams. Will there be a Minnesota letdown? Will Ohio State dominate on the scoreboard besides the time of possession? Can Minnesota string together two intense games in a row? This will be a very interesting game in what looks to be an exciting season.