Official 2011-2012 Miami Season Thread: Short People Leave Big Shoes to Fill

[RedhawkBandMan]

Re: Official 2011-2012 Miami Season Thread: Short People Leave Big Shoes to Fill

INCH's 2011-2012 CCHA Preview

INCH predicts a 1st place conference finish for Miami and looks at Reilly Smith and Tyler Biggs as the league's "Best Player" and "Impact Newcomer," respectively.

 

[MUhawks628]

Re: Official 2011-2012 Miami Season Thread: Short People Leave Big Shoes to Fill

BG to the WCHA, looks like this is all about over. Just in time for real hockey to start!

 

[redeagle]

Re: Official 2011-2012 Miami Season Thread: Short People Leave Big Shoes to Fill

INCH's 2011-2012 CCHA Preview

INCH predicts a 1st place conference finish for Miami and looks at Reilly Smith and Tyler Biggs as the league's "Best Player" and "Impact Newcomer," respectively.

I really do not get the pre-season predictions for Miami. People seems to forget what MU lost. Watching Sunday, especially with Smith out, there was a lot less skill than we are used to. I guess Miele, Camper, Canonne, et al. spoiled me for the last few years. I know the freshmen are good on paper, but they are freshmen, and a couple are very young. I liked most so far although I do not see it yet from Biggs. I'm sure it is there, but I just have not seen it and I've been to a few practices, the scrimmages against the pros, and Sunday. We'll see how it goes, but I think RHM has it right about this year. We'll see.

 

[MUhawks628]

Re: Official 2011-2012 Miami Season Thread: Short People Leave Big Shoes to Fill

I really do not get the pre-season predictions for Miami. People seems to forget what MU lost. Watching Sunday, especially with Smith out, there was a lot less skill than we are used to. I guess Miele, Camper, Canonne, et al. spoiled me for the last few years. I know the freshmen are good on paper, but they are freshmen, and a couple are very young. I liked most so far although I do not see it yet from Biggs. I'm sure it is there, but I just have not seen it and I've been to a few practices, the scrimmages against the pros, and Sunday. We'll see how it goes, but I think RHM has it right about this year. We'll see.

That's been my view all summer as well.

It's probably fair to assume that the majority of writers, and fans on here putting us high on their own polls, only see Miami play once or twice a season.

I think they look at our roster, and see a team with 9 seniors, a great recruiting class, and just assume the devloped talent is there to complement the new kids. In reality, there has been little offensive production from that senior class, and none of them, outside of Hirsch, have really shown anything to indicate that they are poised to start putting the puck in the net during their final season.

The scoring void left by Miele/Camper/Cannone is not going to be filled by Vogelhuber, Tommassioni, and Tiesling, but it seems like a lot of the writers are assuming that is the case with their "veteren team ready to step up" stick.

Maybe our defense and Cody/Connor really can carry us for the first half of the season. Who knows?

 

[fellowes]

Re: Official 2011-2012 Miami Season Thread: Short People Leave Big Shoes to Fill

The scoring void left by Miele/Camper/Cannone is not going to be filled by Vogelhuber, Tommassioni, and Tiesling, but it seems like a lot of the writers are assuming that is the case with their "veteren team ready to step up" stick.

This is obviously true, but our offensive production last season was quite top-heavy. It would be too much to ask 3 senior forwards to completely replace Miele/Camper/Cannone, but I think what a lot of outside observers see is the potential for a lot more depth up front (which I agree with, to an extent).

 

[MUhawks628]

Re: Official 2011-2012 Miami Season Thread: Short People Leave Big Shoes to Fill

This is obviously true, but our offensive production last season was quite top-heavy. It would be too much to ask 3 senior forwards to completely replace Miele/Camper/Cannone, but I think what a lot of outside observers see is the potential for a lot more depth up front (which I agree with, to an extent).

I understand that, but the depth argument is highly dependent on how well the freshmen play, and I am in that camp that doesn't think they are going to come out lighting the world on fire in the first couple months of the season.

Hope to be proven wrong, Friday can't get here fast enough

 

[MiamiRedhawks2008]

Re: Official 2011-2012 Miami Season Thread: Short People Leave Big Shoes to Fill

The other way to look @ preseason rankings is this: consider not how good they are now, but how good they will be @ season's end. Theupside on the freshmen is immense, so I imagine that is the thought process. Not saying its my opinion, just that it is most likely what led to a #1/2 ranking. I'm much more of a wait and see thing.

Friday/Saturday will tell us a lot.

 

[fellowes]

Re: Official 2011-2012 Miami Season Thread: Short People Leave Big Shoes to Fill

Apparently we are running with the whole "White-out" thing for this weekend, probably going to wear my red jersey anyway...

 

[MUhawks628]

Re: Official 2011-2012 Miami Season Thread: Short People Leave Big Shoes to Fill

White-outs never work, just a few people wearning red throws the whole thing off. I thought the red-out against Michigan last year looked pretty good.

The novelty of my bauer red jersey hasn't worn off yet, so I'll be rocking that on Friday. Plus my knock-off white ones are falling apart on both sleves.

 

[redhawkman10]

Re: Official 2011-2012 Miami Season Thread: Short People Leave Big Shoes to Fill

That's been my view all summer as well.

It's probably fair to assume that the majority of writers, and fans on here putting us high on their own polls, only see Miami play once or twice a season.

I think they look at our roster, and see a team with 9 seniors, a great recruiting class, and just assume the devloped talent is there to complement the new kids. In reality, there has been little offensive production from that senior class, and none of them, outside of Hirsch, have really shown anything to indicate that they are poised to start putting the puck in the net during their final season.

The scoring void left by Miele/Camper/Cannone is not going to be filled by Vogelhuber, Tommassioni, and Tiesling, but it seems like a lot of the writers are assuming that is the case with their "veteren team ready to step up" stick.

Maybe our defense and Cody/Connor really can carry us for the first half of the season. Who knows?

I understand redeagles perspective, he by nature is always cautiously optimistic.

But why is this team different from last years ND team that was loaded with young offensive talent? Ill tell you the difference. Difference is this team actually has a legit backend. Two senior goaltenders that have both put teams on their backs and gone to the frozen four and a D-core coming off a down year with a chip on their shoulder and loaded with talent. ND didn't have that last year and they were extremely productive. I know that I like Miami's young forwards better than ND's because they have proven goal scorers and more than ND does. Miami doesn't need to rely on their senior class for a huge production increase. Miami has depth up front, I know they are young but that doesnt matter. Talent is talent and these forwards are talented. There are enough of them that teams can't key in on one guy just like last year. The seniors will be counted on to provide leadership and direction but im not counting on them for production. I wouldn't be surprised if 40% of Miami's offensive production comes from these freshmen. People voting and doing analysis have seen these kids play in juniors they aren't pulling this out of thin air. Coaches in the conference were recruiting these guys too they know how good they are and that is why Miami is as touted as they are. Mainly because this team isn't going to give up 4 goals in a game very much and the forwards will only get better. With that said don't count out McKenzie and Trent on having big years, they have the ability but haven't gotten the opportunities the past few years.

 

[redhawkman10]

Re: Official 2011-2012 Miami Season Thread: Short People Leave Big Shoes to Fill

That's just the thing... they have ALREADY been monitoring signs. My girlfriend tried to bring in a sign during the Michigan series a few years ago that said "Don't be such a Sauer-puss," in reference to Wolverine goaltender Billy Sauer. She was forced to trash it at the gate before they would let her in because "Sauer-puss" is apparently vulgar.

This is more of something to prepare for the future. They are trying to get students adjusted for an definant rise in national televised games in a couple years. There are more important things than monitoring signs and there is no sense in hiring additional people and having them judge (inconsistantly) which sign is ok and which isn't. So to prepare for all the changes they scrap signs, I really don't think its that big of a deal. Lets be honest, the student section has given the university image a bad name at times because of the vulgarity at times. This is something they want to clean up and frankly should clean up. This program is now on the national stage, it isn't like the old days where it was majority students at the games. Families are wanting to come now as well as big money boosters and they don't want to see/hear this stuff. I know this makes me sound old, which im not, but there are ways to keep the rowdy nature without the vulgarity and making a fool of yourself.

I know to you and me a sign like the one your girlfriend tried to bring in isn't that offensive but to other people who have far more pull than us do and thats all that matters.

 

[MUnRPI]

Re: Official 2011-2012 Miami Season Thread: Short People Leave Big Shoes to Fill

I understand redeagles perspective, he by nature is always cautiously optimistic.

But why is this team different from last years ND team that was loaded with young offensive talent? Ill tell you the difference. Difference is this team actually has a legit backend. Two senior goaltenders that have both put teams on their backs and gone to the frozen four and a D-core coming off a down year with a chip on their shoulder and loaded with talent. ND didn't have that last year and they were extremely productive. I know that I like Miami's young forwards better than ND's because they have proven goal scorers and more than ND does. Miami doesn't need to rely on their senior class for a huge production increase. Miami has depth up front, I know they are young but that doesnt matter. Talent is talent and these forwards are talented. There are enough of them that teams can't key in on one guy just like last year. The seniors will be counted on to provide leadership and direction but im not counting on them for production. I wouldn't be surprised if 40% of Miami's offensive production comes from these freshmen. People voting and doing analysis have seen these kids play in juniors they aren't pulling this out of thin air. Coaches in the conference were recruiting these guys too they know how good they are and that is why Miami is as touted as they are. Mainly because this team isn't going to give up 4 goals in a game very much and the forwards will only get better. With that said don't count out McKenzie and Trent on having big years, they have the ability but haven't gotten the opportunities the past few years.

I agree with this. I think that Hirschfeld is going to have a big year as well. He was on fire until he hurt his shoulder last year. I just think he has a killer instinct for finding the puck, and he will greatly benefit from freshmen that aren't afraid to pull the trigger.

 

[mcfarljd]

2 more days. wonder what they have in store for the hobey and mason cup

 

[MUhawks628]

Re: Official 2011-2012 Miami Season Thread: Short People Leave Big Shoes to Fill

2 more days. wonder what they have in store for the hobey and mason cup

Took a walk around the Goggin, didn't see the Hobey on display anywhere, so I don't know if that is in the gameplan or if it's staying hidden behind the scenes.

Mason Cup banner was rolled up in the rafters already so I'm sure there will be a nice drum roll and some flashy lights to accompany that unfurling Friday night.

 

[RedhawkBandMan]

Re: Official 2011-2012 Miami Season Thread: Short People Leave Big Shoes to Fill

This is more of something to prepare for the future. They are trying to get students adjusted for an definant rise in national televised games in a couple years. There are more important things than monitoring signs and there is no sense in hiring additional people and having them judge (inconsistantly) which sign is ok and which isn't. So to prepare for all the changes they scrap signs, I really don't think its that big of a deal. Lets be honest, the student section has given the university image a bad name at times because of the vulgarity at times. This is something they want to clean up and frankly should clean up. This program is now on the national stage, it isn't like the old days where it was majority students at the games. Families are wanting to come now as well as big money boosters and they don't want to see/hear this stuff. I know this makes me sound old, which im not, but there are ways to keep the rowdy nature without the vulgarity and making a fool of yourself.

I know to you and me a sign like the one your girlfriend tried to bring in isn't that offensive but to other people who have far more pull than us do and thats all that matters.

I simply disagree. There are programs with a much longer history of national prominence and much more significant national media presence who do not take steps such as an outright ban on signs. And I also know a number of alumni, young AND old, who value the atmosphere that is in part created by the signs and cheers and would be alienated by a move to eliminate them. If I was a big booster, I'd want to see a full, passionate, involved student section in every game because it is something that the rest of the fans value and something that the members of the team themselves enjoy. How many recruits have been quoted as saying that one reason they chose Miami was the devoted student fan base? How many current players have said in interviews that they love the students lined up hours ahead of the games? Moves like eliminating signs won't instantly destroy that atmosphere, but I would argue that over time it does chip away from it, draining the energy from the core of the student fans.

I'm not saying they shouldn't try to eliminate vulgarities. There are two ways to do this: unilateral, outright bans or engaging the student fans toward cooperation in solving the problem. The former approach will alienate students and most likely fail as far as eliminating the vulgar cheers... the only way you would actually achieve this is through ejections and individual bans, which hurts student morale and game atmosphere even further. The latter approach gives the students a sense of involvement, investment, empowerment that will provide a strong motivation to self-police. Then you get signs and chants that are fun, witty, and contribute to the atmosphere, AND you maintain a robust student section. If at that point students fail to self-police, they then have no legitimate complaint when a ban has to be imposed instead.

Of course this is all premised on the assumption that signs are in fact banned. If that turns out to indeed be the case on Friday, we can explore this further. As I said, though, you don't have to hire more people to monitor signs... those people are already there regulating the gate and have already been doing this additional job. As far as a concern that we need to avoid offending big boosters, I would argue that today's most diehard student fans are tomorrow's biggest non-player boosters... discounting and alienating them hurts in the long run. As far as families go, it's an athletic event with invested fans. In my experience, you hear worse things in worse contexts at most other venues with similarly impassioned fans.

 

[MUhawks628]

Re: Official 2011-2012 Miami Season Thread: Short People Leave Big Shoes to Fill

I'm not saying they shouldn't try to eliminate vulgarities. There are two ways to do this: unilateral, outright bans or engaging the student fans toward cooperation in solving the problem. The former approach will alienate students and most likely fail as far as eliminating the vulgar cheers... the only way you would actually achieve this is through ejections and individual bans, which hurts student morale and game atmosphere even further. The latter approach gives the students a sense of involvement, investment, empowerment that will provide a strong motivation to self-police. Then you get signs and chants that are fun, witty, and contribute to the atmosphere, AND you maintain a robust student section. If at that point students fail to self-police, they then have no legitimate complaint when a ban has to be imposed instead.

Completely agree with this position.

A member of the administration only needs to swing by the Goggin on Friday to see how effective unilaterally banning the Scalp Song has been on eliminating the "whooping" among students (I'll admit I am a guilty party there, but had you told me, lose the whooping or loose the song, I would have been all for coming up with something new for that part of the song). I think we all realize that there are conflicting reports on the "status of signage" at the Goggin, but for the sake of argument, if they have repeated the same mistake I really have to question just how little the athletic department thinks of Miami students that they can't offer a middle ground (No vulgarity, no sexual innuendo, ect.) with a reasonable expectation of student compliance. I genuinely believe that the students who do choose to make signs will gladly pass on the cheap sexual puns (Tiny Johnson) to keep the ones that actually have something to do with hockey, sieve signs above the net do not reflect poorly on the university.

As far as vulgarity, that was something I felt like they really cracked down on last season. All it took was a couple stern looks from the officer standing at the tunnel, and the verbal acknowledgment that ejection could ensue, and we all caught ourselves before yelling something inappropriate out. TBH I never felt like there were that many (any?) F-bombs coming out of the student section to begin with.


On a hockey related note since all this administrative bs doesn't change the fact that we still have games this weekend :

Don't know if you guys have been following this list, USA HockeyMag has been counting down the Top 10 Americans to watch in 2011

Coming in at #9...

 

[MiamiRedhawks2008]

Re: Official 2011-2012 Miami Season Thread: Short People Leave Big Shoes to Fill

My first few steps of hockey fandom were taken in a tiny lttle rink that had closer resemblane to a cave than an actual college sporting venue. The fogies on here will recognize me describing The Goggin. I think everyone recognized that the special quality of fans, environment, and experience had to be transferred from the old venue to the new one. Part of that was allowiing college kids to be college kids. Be raucous. Be rowdy. Limiting them is killing the atmosphere.

Ive been back a few times as an alumnus and am ashamed. The kids have no interest in the game. They are don't have good participation in chants or cheers. If you're afraid the atmosphere WILL die, you're too late.

It IS dying. Hockey is not for the faint of heart. It needs grittiness, on the ice and in the stands. I'm not calling for total vulgarity, but you need a little edge. Crap, have you heard the crap yelled at NHl games?! If you want something prim and proper, go watch your grandma's knitting circle....or, better yet, soccer.

 

[mcfarljd]

It IS dying. Hockey is not for the faint of heart. It needs grittiness, on the ice and in the stands. I'm not calling for total vulgarity, but you need a little edge. Crap, have you heard the crap yelled at NHl games?! If you want something prim and proper, go watch your grandma's knitting circle....or, better yet, soccer.

I dunno. Soccer has riots. Youre better off using a Millett reference for no atmosphere.

 

[Love&Honor]

Re: Official 2011-2012 Miami Season Thread: Short People Leave Big Shoes to Fill

Exactly. MUnRPI mentioned "sign girl", I can almost guarntee you that she was the driving reason for this change. How long was the university going to let someone have a sign that said "Andy, I want your stick" before they did something, although I figured that "something" would be increased monitoring/censoring. Leave it to the jersey chasers to ruin it for the rest of us, she's graduated and lives on the other side of the country now, we're all good!!

The sad part of it is, that aside from the promotional sign nights, there are maybe only 10 or 15 people who bring posters in on a regular basis. Would it be that difficult to have a sign approval area that would require <10 minutes of an atheltic office emplyoee's time?

Well excuse me that after four years of going to games I wanted one funny sign. That sign lasted 10 minutes and then I took it down. Also I am nothing like a jersey chaser and you better watch what you call people. Just becuase I had signs doesnt mean that I ever even hung out with the players becuase I didnt. I never missed a game and some of our signs were looked forward to by players and regular ticket holders. Im glad your happy Im gone or I would make a sign didicated to your lack of humor. Hockey is a dirty sport and requires some dirty chants and signs. Let the boys be boys and the fans be fans. If you like your hockey boring then go watch baseball or something.

 

[MUhawks628]

Re: Official 2011-2012 Miami Season Thread: Short People Leave Big Shoes to Fill

My first few steps of hockey fandom were taken in a tiny lttle rink that had closer resemblane to a cave than an actual college sporting venue. The fogies on here will recognize me describing The Goggin. I think everyone recognized that the special quality of fans, environment, and experience had to be transferred from the old venue to the new one. Part of that was allowiing college kids to be college kids. Be raucous. Be rowdy. Limiting them is killing the atmosphere.

Ive been back a few times as an alumnus and am ashamed. The kids have no interest in the game. They are don't have good participation in chants or cheers. If you're afraid the atmosphere WILL die, you're too late.

It IS dying. Hockey is not for the faint of heart. It needs grittiness, on the ice and in the stands. I'm not calling for total vulgarity, but you need a little edge. Crap, have you heard the crap yelled at NHl games?! If you want something prim and proper, go watch your grandma's knitting circle....or, better yet, soccer.

Ray of sunshine you are this evening