O'Bannon Case and its ripple effect on college hockey

[Tipsy McStagger]

Re: O'Bannon Case and its ripple effect on college hockey

The real end game here if O'Bannon wins (and he won't) is that those non-revenue sports that many kids get to play cost free that enrich their college experience will be dropped or moved to club level where they will become pay-to- play and everyone's tuition will likely go up.

Or maybe instead of coaches and ADs pulling in millions of dollars, they make a little less and some of that money gets redirected to the athletes. Or maybe the coaches pay the athletes directly. Or maybe they let the players do endorsements or do sponsorships or they let them sell their autographs. There are tons of places the money could come from other than non-revenue sports.

And last I checked, the fact that some tennis or soccer players won't be enriched is about the worst argument you could have come up with. We are talking about adults here. If you love your sport so much, there are places in almost every town to do them.

 

[4four4]

So Ed O'Bannon, Bill Russell, etc. are being greedy for suing the NCAA for a piece of the profits that are gained by selling their name and likeness years after they were under NCAA control? Didn't the NCAA exist before video games? Before games were televised? Did they have scholarships before the NCAA started selling themselves to the highest bidder?

The NCAA has become a business. If they can't figure out a way to pay the employees or at the minimum get rid of all the ridiculous restrictions placed on the "student-athletes", then maybe they deserve to fold.

The Big Ten has been rumored to leave the NCAA. If they do please pass the popcorn.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

I already addressed that point.

No, that doesn't address the point. There wasn't as much money coming in decades past, but the costs weren't what they are today.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

Or maybe instead of coaches and ADs pulling in millions of dollars, they make a little less and some of that money gets redirected to the athletes. Or maybe the coaches pay the athletes directly. Or maybe they let the players do endorsements or do sponsorships or they let them sell their autographs. There are tons of places the money could come from other than non-revenue sports.

And last I checked, the fact that some tennis or soccer players won't be enriched is about the worst argument you could have come up with. We are talking about adults here. If you love your sport so much, there are places in almost every town to do them.

I don't think they'll have to do any of that because I don't think O'Bannon will win the suit. They knew coming in they'll get a free education, and nothing more. No one forced them to enter into that contract.

On top of a free education, they got the enrichment from playing college athletics and the university used the money they made to fund the non-revenue sports that give other student athletes the same enrichment. Oh, and they also received free exposure to the pro leagues for their sport.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

And last I checked, the fact that some tennis or soccer players won't be enriched is about the worst argument you could have come up with. We are talking about adults here. If you love your sport so much, there are places in almost every town to do them.

So, collegiate tennis and soccer players should play in community adult leagues so that a relatively few basketball and football players can get played to get college athletics?? You're making my point for me.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: O'Bannon Case and its ripple effect on college hockey

I don't think they'll have to do any of that because I don't think O'Bannon will win the suit. They knew coming in they'll get a free education, and nothing more. No one forced them to enter into that contract.

If United, American, and Delta collude to fix prices and you buy a ticket at the inflated price, does that absolve them of wrongdoing, since you (and all their other customers) willingly participated in the transaction? That's the issue here: the schools got together and agreed to use the same fixed contract terms when signing athletes rather than allowing each school to negotiate independently.

 

[Osorojo]

Re: O'Bannon Case and its ripple effect on college hockey

Who could have imagined MJH and DIH coming ever closer? Anyone who used his head for something besides an amplifier.

 

[4four4]

I don't think they'll have to do any of that because I don't think O'Bannon will win the suit. They knew coming in they'll get a free education, and nothing more. No one forced them to enter into that contract.

On top of a free education, they got the enrichment from playing college athletics and the university used the money they made to fund the non-revenue sports that give other student athletes the same enrichment. Oh, and they also received free exposure to the pro leagues for their sport.

Free exposure? Pro scouts are now scouting virtually every league. They don't leave many stones unturned. This isn't Mayberry anymore.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

Free exposure? Pro scouts are now scouting virtually every league. They don't leave many stones unturned. This isn't Mayberry anymore.

True, but that doesn't mean the continued exposure in a league with the country/world's best isn't beneficial to these players. You can also throw in access to world class coaching and training facilities. Or should the players shoulder no burden for paying for those resources, just collect on revenues earned?

That's my whole problem with this. These players want to collect on any revenue earned, but want no responsibility for the cost and risk it takes to generate that revenue. If the program makes money off me, then pay me, but if the program loses money, it's the school's problem.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: O'Bannon Case and its ripple effect on college hockey

Agreed, but O'Bannon says he doesn't care about the money.

“It’s not about the money,” he said. “You can’t just throw some dollars in my face and watch me go away. I want systemic change. That’s what we’re here for.”

“Fair would be getting more than zero,” Flournoy said he responded. “I can’t speak for everybody, but I don’t need to get anything for my likeness. I would like them to get my approval before they use it. After all, it is me. Texas Western. Forty-four. That’s me.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/20/s...-obannon-has-other-critical-participants.html

I'll be honest I haven't really followed the case that closely, and I certainly don't know any of the parties involved personally.

But I can tell you from personal experience, when people tell you a lawsuit is not about the money, it's always about the money.

 

[Patman]

I'll be honest I haven't really followed the case that closely, and I certainly don't know any of the parties involved personally.

But I can tell you from personal experience, when people tell you a lawsuit is not about the money, it's always about the money.

If this were to go into a general found for say sport coat money I wouldn't mind... It's just the potential to warp everything I take issue with

 

[Tipsy McStagger]

Re: O'Bannon Case and its ripple effect on college hockey

True, but that doesn't mean the continued exposure in a league with the country/world's best isn't beneficial to these players. You can also throw in access to world class coaching and training facilities. Or should the players shoulder no burden for paying for those resources, just collect on revenues earned?

That's my whole problem with this. These players want to collect on any revenue earned, but want no responsibility for the cost and risk it takes to generate that revenue. If the program makes money off me, then pay me, but if the program loses money, it's the school's problem.

How do you come up with this stuff? Where do you think the training facilities came from? The money generated by the athletes that came before. Where do you think the ungodly sums of money came from to pay the coaches? The money generated by the athletes that came before.

And risk? Don't make me laugh. These schools get government money for almost every single facility they build. The NCAA is a business. Do Target employees have to pay in if the company loses money?

Lets say the school has to pay zero to the athletes. The NCAA just eliminates the amateur clause and lets the athletes make money from sponsorships, endorsements or an agent advances them money against future earnings. Are you opposed to that?

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

How do you come up with this stuff? Where do you think the training facilities came from? The money generated by the athletes that came before. Where do you think the ungodly sums of money came from to pay the coaches? The money generated by the athletes that came before.

And risk? Don't make me laugh. These schools get government money for almost every single facility they build. The NCAA is a business. Do Target employees have to pay in if the company loses money?

Lets say the school has to pay zero to the athletes. The NCAA just eliminates the amateur clause and lets the athletes make money from sponsorships, endorsements or an agent advances them money against future earnings. Are you opposed to that?

So, training facilities for non-revenue sports come from the revenue generated by those sports?

I think you open up a big can of worms by eliminating the amateur status, but that is more digestible to me than student athletes getting paid and not assuming any responsibility for costs and risk required to earn the revenue.

 

[thetruthhurts]

Re: O'Bannon Case and its ripple effect on college hockey

The single best article I have read on the notion of paying college athletes is below. It's a very compelling article and one I would encourage all fans of college sports to read:

http://m.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/10/the-shame-of-college-sports/308643/

This was a great read!!!

I'm very interested in reading more about the Joseph Agnew suit/results

 

[Tipsy McStagger]

Re: O'Bannon Case and its ripple effect on college hockey

So, training facilities from non-revenue sports come from the revenue generated by those sports?

Show me a college training facility for soccer, tennis, swimming or another non-revenue sport that is "world class" or that cost a lot of money.

 

[4four4]

Re: O'Bannon Case and its ripple effect on college hockey

True, but that doesn't mean the continued exposure in a league with the country/world's best isn't beneficial to these players. You can also throw in access to world class coaching and training facilities. Or should the players shoulder no burden for paying for those resources, just collect on revenues earned?

That's my whole problem with this. These players want to collect on any revenue earned, but want no responsibility for the cost and risk it takes to generate that revenue. If the program makes money off me, then pay me, but if the program loses money, it's the school's problem.

Great points. Maybe the NCAA shouldn't even showcase any student athletes at any level on radio, tv or the internet. IMO, it might solve some of the problems.

 

[4four4]

Re: O'Bannon Case and its ripple effect on college hockey

How do you come up with this stuff? Where do you think the training facilities came from? The money generated by the athletes that came before. Where do you think the ungodly sums of money came from to pay the coaches? The money generated by the athletes that came before.

And risk? Don't make me laugh. These schools get government money for almost every single facility they build. The NCAA is a business. Do Target employees have to pay in if the company loses money?

Lets say the school has to pay zero to the athletes. The NCAA just eliminates the amateur clause and lets the athletes make money from sponsorships, endorsements or an agent advances them money against future earnings. Are you opposed to that?

Nice rebuttal. I haven't done my research but I am under the impression the new Gophers practice facility would be all privately funded of course the stadium was paid by the tax payers. I do know the Big Ten has come out and said if they have to pay players they will go the way of the Ivies.

 

[Osorojo]

Re: O'Bannon Case and its ripple effect on college hockey

Nice rebuttal. I haven't done my research but I am under the impression the new Gophers practice facility would be all privately funded of course the stadium was paid by the tax payers. I do know the Big Ten has come out and said if they have to pay players they will go the way of the Ivies.

According to many of the academic finance savants on this site there is no difference between the current athletic scholarship policies of the Ivy League and those of other DI athletic programs. Perhaps they are correct, but they were certainly dead wrong when they insisted there is no common ground between the goals, policies, and financing of Major Junior hockey programs and DI men's hockey programs.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

Show me a college training facility for soccer, tennis, swimming or another non-revenue sport that is "world class" or that cost a lot of money.

Have you toured any large universities? Not to mention, they don't even need to be "world class" anymore to cost a lot of money considering building costs. Look at the cost of Minnesota's new baseball facility. Not exactly the cost you see with the Viking's new stadium, but not cheap by any means. Baseball is a non-revenue sport (or relatively low revenue), but I'm sure the players aren't asked to chip in for that cost.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: O'Bannon Case and its ripple effect on college hockey

Show me a college training facility for soccer, tennis, swimming or another non-revenue sport that is "world class" or that cost a lot of money.

Seriously? There are tons of awesome facilities out there in non-revenue sports. Here's one for tennis. Definitely world class and definitely cost a lot of money. Click on the picture and you'll see the satellite view of the awesome aquatic facility right next door.