Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

[Tundra]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Really? Who?

I point out that there was, in fact, a surplus but I don't say Clinton was fiscally conservative.

So which liberals constantly trumpet that?

Not here too much. but I've seen it mentioned in the media... but the other side gives too much credit to Reagan so it's mostly a wash.

It's the money supply - the Fed funds rate: sets borrowing cost for business, mortgages etc... and the inflation rate.

Just look at the fed chart, Reagan had headwind with higher fed rate for few years, but all tailwind afterward, lowering taxes and higher (military) spending had little effect... just look at our current stimulus package and Bush tax cut (Obama extension).

Same thing with Clinton (8% to 4% so recovery was on the way from 1990 recession) and he had benefits of lower military spending and new tech jobs and revenue offsetting manufacturing losses.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Not here too much. but I've seen it mentioned in the media... but the other side gives too much credit to Reagan so it's mostly a wash.

He said "liberals around here" so he either means this forum, or he has a bunch of liberals in Arizona saying Clinton was fiscally conservative. I'm going to assume it's the former. So I'd love to know which liberals "around here" say Clinton was a conservative.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Really? Who?

I point out that there was, in fact, a surplus but I don't say Clinton was fiscally conservative.

So which liberals constantly trumpet that?

You've gotta be kidding me!

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

You do? Where have you been for the past decades? The process (though not required to) usually begins with the President submitting his budget request to Congress. How is this different?

It isn't. Which is shocking to me. The Republicans have been all talk and no walk so far.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

It isn't. Which is shocking to me. The Republicans have been all talk and no walk so far.

What? So by following the established order for the budget process, they've been "all talk and no walk"? Really?

If they had done it the other way around I bet you'd be moaning about how they didn't let Obama have his chance to go first.

For reference, the Budget and Accounting Act of 1921:

The Budget and Accounting Act of 1921 was landmark legislation that established the framework for the modern federal budget. The act was approved by President Harding to provide a national budget system and an independent audit of Government accounts. The official title of this Act is “The General Accounting Act of 1921,” but is frequently referred to as “the Budget Act,” or “the Budget and Accounting Act.” For the first time, the Act would require the President to submit to Congress an annual budget for the entire federal government.

But HOW DARE Republicans not ignore this law?

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

You've gotta be kidding me!

No...I'm serious.

 

[Tundra]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

I wonder if Fed is going back to look at money supply. I guess QE1 and QE2 is one method to increase M3, although I really have doubts it'll work out if the bankers don't lend/lower rates for whatever reason (cleaning balance sheet, getting cautious etc..).

Funny they stopped setting M3 targets after go-go internet boom years and then stopped looking at it completely after go-go housing boom years with double digit increases.

http://www.newyorkfed.org/aboutthefed/fedpoint/fed49.html

* In July 2000, the Federal Reserve announced that it was no longer setting target ranges for money supply growth.

* In March 2006, the Board of Governors ceased publishing the M3 monetary aggregate.

The Federal Reserve System and public- and private-sector analysts have long monitored the growth of the money supply because of the effects that money supply growth is believed to have on real economic activity and on the price level

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-1930s-pace-as-Obama-eyes-fresh-stimulus.html

Mr Bernanke no longer pays attention to the M3 data. The bank stopped publishing the data five years ago, deeming it too erratic to be of much use.

This may have been a serious error since double-digit growth of M3 during the US housing bubble gave clear warnings that the boom was out of control. The sudden slowdown in M3 in early to mid-2008 - just as the Fed talked of raising rates - gave a second warning that the economy was about to go into a nosedive.

In March 2006, the Federal Reserve Board of Governors ceased publication of the M3 monetary aggregate. M3 did not appear to convey any additional information about economic activity that was not already embodied in M2. Consequently, the Board judged that the costs of collecting the data and publishing M3 outweigh the benefits.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

What? So by following the established order for the budget process, they've been "all talk and no walk"? Really?

If they had done it the other way around I bet you'd be moaning about how they didn't let Obama have his chance to go first.

You do realize how many bills they've been floating and that every one of them is of the "Social Engineering" variety? Seriously, I expected more AND I SHOULD EXPECT MORE.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

You do realize how many bills they've been floating and that every one of them is of the "Social Engineering" variety? Seriously, I expected more AND I SHOULD EXPECT MORE.

Yes, but redefining rape was really going to boost job growth.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

He said "liberals around here" so he either means this forum, or he has a bunch of liberals in Arizona saying Clinton was fiscally conservative. I'm going to assume it's the former. So I'd love to know which liberals "around here" say Clinton was a conservative.

Rover. He routinely gives (gave? where is he, anyway?) Clinton 110% of the credit for the balanced budget of the late 90s.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Rover. He routinely gives (gave? where is he, anyway?) Clinton 110% of the credit for the balanced budget of the late 90s.

By saying he was a fiscal conservative?

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

You do realize how many bills they've been floating and that every one of them is of the "Social Engineering" variety? Seriously, I expected more AND I SHOULD EXPECT MORE.

Yeah, sure, I at least partially agree with you on that point.

I'm talking more about your silly statement that they should have put out their budget proposal before Obama, and that it's not up to the president to submit a budget, despite 90 years of precedent going the other way.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

By saying he was a fiscal conservative?

??? back at you.

If Rover said, "Clinton deserves credit for the balanced budgets of the 1990s because he ate broccoli every morning for breakfast and never forgot to floss," he'd still be wrong.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

??? back at you.

If Rover said, "Clinton deserves credit for the balanced budgets of the 1990s because he ate broccoli every morning for breakfast and never forgot to floss," he'd still be wrong.

The quote was "All I know is that I hear liberals around here constantly trumpet what a wonderful fiscally conservative President Clinton was. Glad to hear not everyone takes such simplistic and at least somewhat inaccurate views."

I'm a liberal. I know that'll come as quite a shock. Unlike many on this forum I am not "Independent" and just happen to mysteriously "lean" one way or the other. Bill Clinton was and remains many things, but a fiscal conservative is NOT one of them. I have yet to hear any liberal say he was. Micheal Moore said he was a great Republican president, and I've heard some say he was the first "black president" (which is just plain stupid) but I'd love to hear anyone - particularly a liberal - explain how Clinton was fiscally conservative. Balancing the budget /= fiscally conservative. It means you're good with numbers.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Yeah, sure, I at least partially agree with you on that point.

I'm talking more about your silly statement that they should have put out their budget proposal before Obama, and that it's not up to the president to submit a budget, despite 90 years of precedent going the other way.

Rumor was we had to start changing the way we do things. Apparently not.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

What? So by following the established order for the budget process, they've been "all talk and no walk"? Really?

If they had done it the other way around I bet you'd be moaning about how they didn't let Obama have his chance to go first.

For reference, the Budget and Accounting Act of 1921:


But HOW DARE Republicans not ignore this law?

You do realize how many bills they've been floating and that every one of them is of the "Social Engineering" variety? Seriously, I expected more AND I SHOULD EXPECT MORE.

Yeah, sure, I at least partially agree with you on that point.

I'm talking more about your silly statement that they should have put out their budget proposal before Obama, and that it's not up to the president to submit a budget, despite 90 years of precedent going the other way.

Rumor was we had to start changing the way we do things. Apparently not.

"I am rubber and you are glue.
Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you."

Nyah!

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Rumor was we had to start changing the way we do things. Apparently not.

We do. I don't think they were talking about the order in which budgets are submitted though, were they? You really think the problem with the budget is the order in which it is submitted? Really?

Edit: If it makes you feel better, the way things are working out, Republicans will be the first to submit an entitlement reform proposal. That fixes everything right?

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

??? back at you.

If Rover said, "Clinton deserves credit for the balanced budgets of the 1990s because he ate broccoli every morning for breakfast and never forgot to floss," he'd still be wrong.

Yes he would, but that isnt the point. Bob is claiming the liberals around here say Clinton was fiscally conservative...none of them have even Rover. They may give him undo credit for the surplus, but that does not equal saying he is fiscally conservative.

That is why Bob looks like a fool suggesting as such.

 

[Tundra]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Edit: If it makes you feel better, the way things are working out, Republicans will be the first to submit an entitlement reform proposal. That fixes everything right?

sure. It'll be interesting if they go beyond: Privatize, free market, lower tax mantra.

The simple short-term solution would be higher co-pay for everyone $50billion savings, (death) panel on medical procedures $50billion savings. There you go I just saved $1trillion over 10 years.

Long term. you need to contain doctor/medical procedure inflation. which means price control (universal health care?) and/or REAL free market where we increase competition (Visa for 1million doctors from India/China). 2year medical degree program to flood the market with cheap doctors.

http://dhhs.gov/asfr/ob/docbudget/2010budgetinbriefl.html

In FY 2010, gross current law spending on Medicare benefits will total $510 billion. Medicare will provide health insurance to 47 million individuals who are either 65 or older, disabled, or have end�stage renal disease (ESRD).

$50billion cut for extending life by 3-6months. So called Death Panel.

THE FOUR PARTS OF MEDICARE

Part A ($186 billion in 2010): Medicare Part A, or Hospital Insurance (HI), pays for inpatient hospital, skilled nursing facility, home health (related to a hospital stay), and hospice care. Part A financing comes primarily from a 2.9 percent payroll tax split between employees and employers.

Higher co-pay/premium. $20billion or so savings

Part B ($140 billion in 2010): Medicare Part B, or Supplementary Medical Insurance (SMI), pays for physician, outpatient hospital, end-stage renal disease (ESRD), laboratory, durable medical equipment, certain home health, and other medical services. Part B coverage is voluntary, and about 94 percent of Medicare beneficiaries are enrolled in Part B.

Approximately 25 percent of Part B costs are financed by beneficiary premiums, with the remaining 75 percent covered by general revenues.

10% cut or higher fee... $10billion saved or $100billion in 10 years.

Part C ($116 billion in 2010): Medicare Part C, the Medicare Advantage (MA) program, offers beneficiaries a variety of coverage options including health maintenance organizations, preferred provider organizations, special needs plans, and private fee for-service plans. MA enrollment totals more than 10 million of Medicare beneficiaries in 2009.

Again. 10% cut or more fee/copay for the 90% middle/upper income

Part D ($68 billion in 2010): Medicare Part D offers a standard prescription drug benefit with a 2009 deductible of $295 and an average monthly premium of $28. The standard benefit includes a coverage gap in which beneficiaries are responsible for all of their drug costs, but once out-of-pocket spending reaches $4,350, Medicare covers 95 percent or more of drug costs. For people who are low income, varying degrees of cost sharing are available with co payments ranging from $0 to $6.00 in 2009 and low or no monthly premiums.

As of 2009, about 90 percent of all Medicare beneficiaries, including over 10 million low-income beneficiaries

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

We do. I don't think they were talking about the order in which budgets are submitted though, were they? You really think the problem with the budget is the order in which it is submitted? Really?

Edit: If it makes you feel better, the way things are working out, Republicans will be the first to submit an entitlement reform proposal. That fixes everything right?

I think this question posed by one of my twitter feeds is a valid one:

If Republicans are going to criticize President Obama's budget no matter what he puts forward, should he have not proposed the cuts he did?