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O Dam: I fear this won't end well

Re: O Dam: I fear this won't end well

I know they've been talking a lot about CalExit, but I don't think this is what they meant...
 
Re: O Dam: I fear this won't end well

bronconick said:
This used to be something that would make the news in some third world country. Good to know we decided to follow in their shoes. Can't wait for the rest of the infrastructure to finish breaking down.
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Globalists have been trying to turn the US third world. Welcome to Agenda 21. ;)
 
Re: O Dam: I fear this won't end well

FlagDUDE08 said:
I broke the dam. No, I broke the dam. I broke the dam. NO, I BROKE THE ****ING DAM!
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Once there was a silly old ram
Thought he'd punch a hole in a dam
No one could make that ram, scram
He kept buttin' that dam

'Cause he had high hopes, he had high hopes
He had high apple pie, in the sky hopes

So any time your feelin' bad
'stead of feelin' sad
Just remember that ram
Oops there goes a billion kilowatt dam
 
Re: O Dam: I fear this won't end well

Can we at least make sure we all understand the dam itself is not in any danger of failing?

The issue is that the primary spillway was damaged and created a sinkhole that allowed water to escape and erode the surrounding hillside. Then the emergency spillway, which is earthen, was in danger of failing due to the amount of water released over it when they shut down the primary spillway. The primary spillway is back in use and is not causing any additional erosion at this time.
 
Re: O Dam: I fear this won't end well

Basically the emergency spillway erosion is feared to have undercut the footings of the 30' concrete wall that is the weir separating lake from emergency spillway. If that 30' wall fails (due to being undercut) that's a 30' wall of water.

LA Times graphic showing what's happened.

My question is this: Sure, it's an emergency spillway that only comes into play if the main spillway can't release enough water and lake levels rise to the weir height, but, why isn't that at least riprapped? Better, would be concrete for the first < engineering calculation here > feet to ensure this erosion/undercut scenario doesn't come into play.


The LA Times has been doing a good job on coverage.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-oroville-dam-how-20170213-story.html
 
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Re: O Dam: I fear this won't end well

unofan said:
Can we at least make sure we all understand the dam itself is not in any danger of failing?
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That is correct; however, the emergency spillway weir failing is effectively the same thing -- the thing holding back the lake failed.

Then again, isn't the spillway weir considered part of the overall dam structure? Given it was installed by man when the dam was put in to hold back the lake, my instinct calls it all "the dam". Then again, when something man-made fails and 30' of water is coming at you, does it really matter? :(
 
The Sicatoka said:
That is correct; however, the emergency spillway weir failing is effectively the same thing -- the thing holding back the lake failed.

Then again, isn't the spillway weir considered part of the overall dam structure? Given it was installed by man when the dam was put in to hold back the lake, my instinct calls it all "the dam". Then again, when something man-made fails and 30' of water is coming at you, does it really matter? :(
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It's a 770 foot tall dam. 30 feet is not effectively the same thing.
 
Re: O Dam: I fear this won't end well

alfablue said:
Good thing that reagan chose guns over butter, isn't it?

Which is where I see a significant point where maintenance was put off. So that we could get both tax cuts AND guns to shoot people.
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Since you seem to want to go political on what could be a human tragedy, here. As some are proud to say, the world's eight largest economy couldn't find the money to fix a dam they own?

Three environmental groups — the Friends of the River, the Sierra Club and the South Yuba Citizens League — filed a motion with the federal government on Oct. 17, 2005, as part of Oroville Dam’s relicensing process, urging federal officials to require that the dam’s emergency spillway be armored with concrete, rather than remain as an earthen hillside.

The groups filed the motion with FERC, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. They said that the dam, built and owned by the state of California, and finished in 1968, ...
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Link for that quote is in the thread opening post.

Since the dam was built in 1968 the CA governors:
Reagan - R - 1967-75
Brown - D - 1975-83
Deukmejian - R - 1983-1991
Wilson - R - 1991-99
Davis - D - 1999-2003
Schwarzenegger - 2003-11
Brown - D - 2011-present

Reagan isn't the problem here. He was the governor for a new dam that met that code.

Then in 2005 suit is filed, which means those organizations were making noise for some time before that because you don't jump right to court.

I'd say Davis, Ahh-nold, and Jerry Brown (the last 20 years or so) should be looked at hard in this mess. Brown doubly so because that's him on the list twice.

So, if you want to go political, make sure everyone knows that Jerry Brown has had six years in office (current term) plus to be aware of his state's dam problem.

ADD: Jerry Brown is telling CA media this morning (I'm listening to an LA radio station) that he was unaware of a 2005 law suit by the Sierra Club. :rolleyes:
 
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Re: O Dam: I fear this won't end well

It's a human tragedy that can trace its roots to some bad political decisions.

Great to blame California on this- but much of what is wrong in this country was sourced originally federally, until ron decided guns over butter. Putting the onus on the states that can't afford it.
 
Re: O Dam: I fear this won't end well

unofan said:
How about I tell it to the millions who aren't evacuated because a 30 foot flood is over a magnitude less bad than a 700 foot flood.
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We know downstream of the weir is unstable by the current erosion.

So, if the 30' weir fails, will that emergency spillway erosion stop? No. Will it go all 700' feet? No. Will it go more than 30' feet? Almost assuredly based on the currently unstable dirt in that spillway. That's what folks don't want to talk about right now, because that would be an epic human tragedy.
 
Re: O Dam: I fear this won't end well

alfablue said:
It's a human tragedy that can trace its roots to some bad political decisions.

Great to blame California on this- but much of what is wrong in this country was sourced originally federally, until ron decided guns over butter. Putting the onus on the states that can't afford it.
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But I've heard that California has something like the 6th largest economy in all the world. If they can't afford it, who can?
 
Re: O Dam: I fear this won't end well

SJHovey said:
But I've heard that California has something like the 6th largest economy in all the world. If they can't afford it, who can?
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They could afford it if they weren't hampered by interstate payments to those welfare queen slave states. :cool:
 
Re: O Dam: I fear this won't end well

Kepler said:
They could afford it if they weren't hampered by interstate payments to those welfare queen slave states. :cool:
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I wonder what the "international trade", or travel, deal would look like if CA stepped out during a Trump presidency. ;)
 
Re: O Dam: I fear this won't end well

SJHovey said:
It sounds like they were controlling the release from this dam in recent days or weeks to protect downstream areas from any flooding. The problem, however, is that it was done at a cost of letting the reservoir rise to a point where, combined with heavy inflows, the emergency spillway suddenly came into play.
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The emergency spillway came into play because a giant crater formed in the middle of the main spillway, and they had to slow/stop the flow of water out the main spillway.

The emergency spillway is actually a 30-foot dam built in a lowpoint that allows the main dam to create a larger reservoir. If water gets too high, it runs over this secondary dam and down an earthen spillway, which is prone to erosion. If the soil erodes under this dam, it could fail.
 
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