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Nice Planet XI: Stop the World, I Want to Get Off!

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Re: Nice Planet XI: Stop the World, I Want to Get Off!

geezer said:
We had an interesting case here in MI a few weeks ago. Some student threatened to "shoot all the black people" and it was re-tweeted (re-yikyaked) at a number of college campuses. The students were traced and arrested. Some were charged with terrorism. The one here at Tech was charged with "disturbing the peace." There was an uproar you wouldn't believe with candlelight vigils, marches on the DA's office, mass student protests, etc. Which is all fine, but there were a lot of people calling for the perp's life - they would have lynched him if they could. I always want to resist that mob mentality until people have time to think about it and cool off. They did cool off, and many of the loudest protesters are now saying he was simply a prankster whose tweet was just shaded slightly further over the line than thousands of insane rants that show up on yikyak every day, and his life shouldn't be ruined over it with a felony conviction and prison time, let alone lynching. (one comment from a university administrator was, "you should see some of the other stuff that shows up on yikyak") (also the student is black, which again, in my opinion, shouldn't really matter in where you come down on this)
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That's not limited to a single race saying that- there was this guy who threatened to shoot 16 students and teachers to avenge the killing of Luquan McDonald. But he does not speak for the BLM movement. He was arrested, and charged. Goes both ways.
 
Re: Nice Planet XI: Stop the World, I Want to Get Off!

geezer said:
My take was that they're simply people protesting for personal freedom and dignity which is perfectly understandable. In fact it was my own point that extreme vilification of the protesters is the problem and the obstacle to progress, not the protesters themselves. I think the rest of this rant is your paranoia talking inside your head. I didn't say anything about "militant dangerous boogeyman" etc. etc. which you falsely claim. You're arguing with a phantom.
Or did you quote the wrong person?
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When you protest by marching in a street, in front or by some government building, signs and chats, that's fine, and I will listen to you. Even to the point of *peacefully* occupying something- where there's little chance of mortal violence, that's happened and worked in the past.

But when you go to armed occupation, with the stated reaction of shooting to defend themselves, well... that's taking it to a totally different level.
 
Re: Nice Planet XI: Stop the World, I Want to Get Off!

alfablue said:
When you protest by marching in a street, in front or by some government building, signs and chats, that's fine, and I will listen to you. Even to the point of *peacefully* occupying something- where there's little chance of mortal violence, that's happened and worked in the past.

But when you go to armed occupation, with the stated reaction of shooting to defend themselves, well... that's taking it to a totally different level.
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Is there anybody who's actually taking these yokels seriously, other than the yokels who don't know how to find Oregon on a map or else they'd already be there with them?
 
Re: Nice Planet XI: Stop the World, I Want to Get Off!

geezer said:
My take was that they're simply people protesting for personal freedom and dignity which is perfectly understandable. In fact it was my own point that extreme vilification of the protesters is the problem and the obstacle to progress, not the protesters themselves. I think the rest of this rant is your paranoia talking inside your head. I didn't say anything about "militant dangerous boogeyman" etc. etc. which you falsely claim. You're arguing with a phantom.
Or did you quote the wrong person?
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I'm responding to what I took to be your assertion that BLM is dominated by "threats of violence against the cops" and going armed through the streets. If you didn't characterize BLM with those ridiculous smears then yes, I'm arguing with the wrong person.

OTOH, you seem to be equating the Bundies with BLM as a group who wants "personal freedom and dignity," and that's just silly. The Bundies are rip off artists with a white supremacist / sovereign citizen / fundamentalist whackadoodle ideology who regularly threaten violence as their core mission. They want personal freedom the way Dillinger wanted the freedom to rob banks. And sure, there were people who idolized Dillinger too, and they were idiots, too.
 
Re: Nice Planet XI: Stop the World, I Want to Get Off!

unofan said:
As someone who has been accused of following another poster around on this board, it amazes me when people get upset that others a) read their comment on a message board and b) respond to them.
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These people aren't responding to anything, they are simply making those same insulting comments over and over for years. They are the bobs in this situation.
 
Re: Nice Planet XI: Stop the World, I Want to Get Off!

Kepler said:
I'm responding to what I took to be your assertion that BLM is dominated by "threats of violence against the cops" and going armed through the streets. If you didn't characterize BLM with those ridiculous smears then yes, I'm arguing with the wrong person.

OTOH, you seem to be equating the Bundies with BLM as a group who wants "personal freedom and dignity," and that's just silly. The Bundies are rip off artists with a white supremacist / sovereign citizen / fundamentalist whackadoodle ideology who regularly threaten violence as their core mission. They want personal freedom the way Dillinger wanted the freedom to rob banks. And sure, there were people who idolized Dillinger too, and they were idiots, too.
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You're probably right, I just don't take them very seriously: all hat, no cattle. Maybe I should be more excited about the "armed standoff national crisis of the day (more at 11)."
 
Re: Nice Planet XI: Stop the World, I Want to Get Off!

Foxton said:
These people aren't responding to anything, they are simply making those same insulting comments over and over for years. They are the bobs in this situation.
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If your deliberately inflammatory responses were worth giving one iota of thought to, perhaps you wouldn't get flippant remarks in kind. As it is, you're getting the same treatment Old Pio did, and it's well-deserved.
 
Re: Nice Planet XI: Stop the World, I Want to Get Off!

geezer said:
You're probably right, I just don't take them very seriously: all hat, no cattle. Maybe I should be more excited about the "armed standoff national crisis of the day (more at 11)."
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I'm not too worried about them. It's like parenting a teenager -- you have to think a couple moves ahead so they don't commit themselves to something and then have to stick to it to save face. But it's also easy to out-think them because they're teenagers.

The worst possibility is they mix with real people and hurt some of them. The next worst is the government does a Ruby Ridge and they wind up martyrs and their fellow morons carve their faces on whatever the Stone Mountain of Nevada is.

As it stands now, it's perfect. They get to preen and strut about and post on You Tube and think they're Freedom Riders while the rest of the country laughs at them and all the other dolts dreaming Farnham's Freehold fantasies are tarred by association.
 
Re: Nice Planet XI: Stop the World, I Want to Get Off!

I don't have a problem with waiting this out for now. No reason to risk the lives of any law enforcement over these backward wastes of dna and obviously, we can't drone strike them - even though it would be kind of funny.


I do have a problem with nothing ever coming of this though like the standoff two years ago.

The occupiers need to be charged with the crimes that they are committing.

As someone else said, arrest them when they are alone at the grocery store or a cafe or whatever, but charge them eventually.


Same goes for any BLM protestors who break laws. I'm sympathetic to their cause, but if they're going to walk up an interstate or close down a mall on private property, charge them with whatever crime they are committing.
 
Re: Nice Planet XI: Stop the World, I Want to Get Off!

Folks in the east don't understand the "Federal Land" issue. This may help folks understand.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/Map_of_all_U.S._Federal_Land.jpg

Why does the US Gov't own all that? Sell it and use the proceeds to pay down the debt. (Not all of that is protected lands or national parks.)

PS - The jamokes in Oregon should just go home. That's not the right time or place to pick the fight.
 
Re: Nice Planet XI: Stop the World, I Want to Get Off!

Gurtholfin said:
Same goes for any BLM protestors who break laws. I'm sympathetic to their cause, but if they're going to walk up an interstate or close down a mall on private property, charge them with whatever crime they are committing.
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Part of the pact you make when you do civil disobedience is to do the time. You go to jail as a symbol of your cause. You appeal to the conscience of the public which in a democratic nation can address the problem.

“An individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law."

― Martin Luther King Jr.
 
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Re: Nice Planet XI: Stop the World, I Want to Get Off!

Isn't this the "Nice Planet" thread?

Where's mention of the "H-Bomb of Justice"?

That's the biggest threat we face this morning.

Kim Jong-Un with a hydrogen bomb ... nice planet.
 
Re: Nice Planet XI: Stop the World, I Want to Get Off!

Actually Trevor Noah on The Daily Show had the best take on this whole thing last night. I side with him.
 
Re: Nice Planet XI: Stop the World, I Want to Get Off!

The Sicatoka said:
Folks in the east don't understand the "Federal Land" issue. This may help folks understand.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/Map_of_all_U.S._Federal_Land.jpg

Why does the US Gov't own all that? Sell it and use the proceeds to pay down the debt. (Not all of that is protected lands or national parks.)

PS - The jamokes in Oregon should just go home. That's not the right time or place to pick the fight.
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Seems like a lot of posts were recently eliminated thanks to some bickering...

But all of that land is stuff that nobody wants to own, maintain, and pay taxes on.

Which is why it's in federal government hands (aka, all of us).

If the ranchers want to buy it, and pay taxed on it, I'm fine with that. If they want to let their cattle get free food on that land, I'm not.

This group claims that there's been a land grab by the government- it would be interesting to see what they are talking about. Most of the land in question is just open scrub in the middle of a steppe. Nothing there worth while. But that doesn't mean that anyone can go in and take resources for nothing.
 
Re: Nice Planet XI: Stop the World, I Want to Get Off!

A lot of that land is for doing stuff like exploding A bombs, testing stealth bombers, and hiding space aliens. The USAF essentially owns Nevada.

A fair amount is also Indian reservations -- you know, the sh-tholes they got stuck with after we stole the rest of the continent and all that -- which are held in trust but not actually federal land.

And for that matter the only reason any of this land is in the US and worth anything is because of massive, costly government programs, first to steal it from the Indians and Mexicans, then to irrigate it. The Western Rugged Individualist is so funny because his entire wealth is just the end state of constant invasive federal investment for over a hundred years. Even more than the South, the West only exists because it's been on the federal dole.
 
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Re: Nice Planet XI: Stop the World, I Want to Get Off!

In Oregon and southern Idaho, most of the federal public land is just sage brush covered Steppe. Not like Nevada or Utah- which are more barren desert, salt flats, or dry lakes. Even the grassy steppe area is mostly useless.

There are some federal lab areas in SE Idaho and eastern Washington- but while they are both pretty big- relative to the state public land- it's tiny.

The farm-able areas are close to rivers/canals.

It's a pretty spectacular area to visit.
 
Re: Nice Planet XI: Stop the World, I Want to Get Off!

"Another county heard from"!

Leaders of the Burns Paiute Tribe of Oregon are speaking out against an armed group that is occupying a federal refuge near the reservation. The land in and around the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge was originally promised to the tribe by treaty. The federal government took all 1.78 million acres and the reservation now consists of less than 800 acres.

“There was never an agreement that we were giving up this land," Chairwoman Charlotte Rodrique told Reuters. "We were dragged out of here."

Selena Sam, a council member, expressed similar sentiments. A land claim against the government was eventually settled for pennies on the dollar, according to the tribe's website.

“I’m like, hold on a minute: If you want to get technical about it, the land belongs to the Paiute here,” Sam told Reuters of the group's claim that the government does not own the refuge.
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In other words: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/45/Mexican_standoff.jpg
 
Re: Nice Planet XI: Stop the World, I Want to Get Off!

alfablue said:
In Oregon and southern Idaho, most of the federal public land is just sage brush covered Steppe. Not like Nevada or Utah- which are more barren desert, salt flats, or dry lakes. Even the grassy steppe area is mostly useless.

There are some federal lab areas in SE Idaho and eastern Washington- but while they are both pretty big- relative to the state public land- it's tiny.

The farm-able areas are close to rivers/canals.

It's a pretty spectacular area to visit.
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The high desert in eastern Oregon is the second-most beautiful place I've been (after the Wasatch Range in Utah).

It's gorgeous but I wouldn't want to own it.
 
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