Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here
I don't doubt it. She...well...let's just say I wouldn't say hello to her in hell.
I don't doubt it. She...well...let's just say I wouldn't say hello to her in hell.
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Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here
- Thread starter The Rube
- Start date
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Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here
I get your point, rube, but the law of crimes does not really work that way, whether we're talking about hate crime laws or not. Unlawful killings are crimes, even without an intent to kill. In felony murder, a person may cause the death of another purely by accident during the commission of a felony, but that person will still by charged with a class of murder. First degree murder, otoh, carries a more severe sentence and requires "malice aforethought."
A statutory rape conviction my carry a very severe sentence, yet no intent to harm is required. They may be two people deeply in love, but the law is there to protect minors and punish according to age, not wrongful intent (though that may be present and add to the list of chargeable offenses).
There are different classifications of theft in many jurisdictions which depend on whether the victim is a member of a vulnerable class, such as the elderly, and the perp is someone in a position to take advantage.
One interesting thing about hate crimes is that they have caused disagreements and division within groups. Many liberals are torn between the desire to protect historically vulnerable groups on one hand and the need to protect free speech on the other, so they do not all agree on the value of hate crime laws. It can drive some very thoughtful discussion.
I get your point, rube, but the law of crimes does not really work that way, whether we're talking about hate crime laws or not. Unlawful killings are crimes, even without an intent to kill. In felony murder, a person may cause the death of another purely by accident during the commission of a felony, but that person will still by charged with a class of murder. First degree murder, otoh, carries a more severe sentence and requires "malice aforethought."
A statutory rape conviction my carry a very severe sentence, yet no intent to harm is required. They may be two people deeply in love, but the law is there to protect minors and punish according to age, not wrongful intent (though that may be present and add to the list of chargeable offenses).
There are different classifications of theft in many jurisdictions which depend on whether the victim is a member of a vulnerable class, such as the elderly, and the perp is someone in a position to take advantage.
One interesting thing about hate crimes is that they have caused disagreements and division within groups. Many liberals are torn between the desire to protect historically vulnerable groups on one hand and the need to protect free speech on the other, so they do not all agree on the value of hate crime laws. It can drive some very thoughtful discussion.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here
Defeatism is part of the problem. I know it's your style, but please reconsider it. You are helping them when you throw up your hands and say we can't fight them.
Defeatism is part of the problem. I know it's your style, but please reconsider it. You are helping them when you throw up your hands and say we can't fight them.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here
I live in a cesspool of a country. No denying that.
I live in a cesspool of a country. No denying that.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here
No. A hate crime recognizes that certain actions target more than the immediate victim. I'm gonna take a wild as-s guess here and assume you are white. If I hang you from a tree I'm hanging you. If I hang a black man from a tree I am hanging all black people, because of the history of lynchings.
Hate crimes are terrorism. A murder is not in itself a terrorist act, but a murder done in the style of and with the cognizance of a history of terrorism is terrorism.
I really can't make it any simpler than that.
If I had written the law I would not have called it a "hate crime." I would have called it domestic terrorism.
No. A hate crime recognizes that certain actions target more than the immediate victim. I'm gonna take a wild as-s guess here and assume you are white. If I hang you from a tree I'm hanging you. If I hang a black man from a tree I am hanging all black people, because of the history of lynchings.
Hate crimes are terrorism. A murder is not in itself a terrorist act, but a murder done in the style of and with the cognizance of a history of terrorism is terrorism.
I really can't make it any simpler than that.
If I had written the law I would not have called it a "hate crime." I would have called it domestic terrorism.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here
Go placidly amid the noise and the haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons; they are vexatious to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter, for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of heroism.
Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment, it is as perennial as the grass.
Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.
Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should. Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be. And whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul. With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.
-- Max Ehrmann
Go placidly amid the noise and the haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons; they are vexatious to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter, for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of heroism.
Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment, it is as perennial as the grass.
Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.
Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should. Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be. And whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul. With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.
-- Max Ehrmann
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ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here
So, you're telling me God wants the ticks and cockroaches to win?
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/02/ticks-can-take-down-800-pound-moose/583189/
Sure, makes sense.
So, you're telling me God wants the ticks and cockroaches to win?
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/02/ticks-can-take-down-800-pound-moose/583189/
Sure, makes sense.
SonofSouthie
Misanthrope
Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here
Ghost moose. Nat Geo had a vid on this almost 11 years ago. Can imagine it's only gotten worse for those poor animals.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here
That’s really well put. Without hate crimes we can’t have people charged with terrorism. We only have murder or attempted murder. I used to think like Brent on this topic (and I’ll be honest, I still go back and forth on it sometimes) but someone on here convinced me otherwise. We punish motive all the time. We add aggravating criteria based on age for all sorts of crimes: sexual assault, fraud, etc. We add aggravating criteria for things like assaulting a cop or federal official.
That’s really well put. Without hate crimes we can’t have people charged with terrorism. We only have murder or attempted murder. I used to think like Brent on this topic (and I’ll be honest, I still go back and forth on it sometimes) but someone on here convinced me otherwise. We punish motive all the time. We add aggravating criteria based on age for all sorts of crimes: sexual assault, fraud, etc. We add aggravating criteria for things like assaulting a cop or federal official.
Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here
What if a minority assaults me because I am white and that person hates white people (whites have given a lot of reasons over the years, no denying that)? Or go back to my Greek Orthodox Church arson question and insert any race/ethnicity/etc?
For me, it's just...I dunno...too murky of where the line should be drawn.
What if a minority assaults me because I am white and that person hates white people (whites have given a lot of reasons over the years, no denying that)? Or go back to my Greek Orthodox Church arson question and insert any race/ethnicity/etc?
For me, it's just...I dunno...too murky of where the line should be drawn.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here
https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/27/us/pittsburgh-synagogue-active-shooter/index.html
Pretty easy to figure out actually.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/27/us/pittsburgh-synagogue-active-shooter/index.html
Pretty easy to figure out actually.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here
Is this a real question? What do you think will happen?
Is this a real question? What do you think will happen?
Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here
What SHOULD happen is the crime itself, and not its motives, should be the charge, because as I said earlier, to commit those sorts of crimes, there is already "hate" in doing the deed itself.
What SHOULD happen is the crime itself, and not its motives, should be the charge, because as I said earlier, to commit those sorts of crimes, there is already "hate" in doing the deed itself.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here
I would hope hate crime charges wouldn't be part of it. I don't know what would happen. I don't know what you're going to say, because you haven't said it yet.
I would hope hate crime charges wouldn't be part of it. I don't know what would happen. I don't know what you're going to say, because you haven't said it yet.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here
You asked a clearly rhetorical question “What would happen if a minority assaults me because I’m white?”
Either you really don’t know, which I suppose is valid but seems kind of ridiculous; or you’re asking a leading question because you already have an idea of what you think we’re going to say.
You asked a clearly rhetorical question “What would happen if a minority assaults me because I’m white?”
Either you really don’t know, which I suppose is valid but seems kind of ridiculous; or you’re asking a leading question because you already have an idea of what you think we’re going to say.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here
I used to think the exact way you do on this topic. It didn't take me very long to figure out I was wrong.
I would hope hate crime charges wouldn't be part of it. I don't know what would happen. I don't know what you're going to say, because you haven't said it yet.
I used to think the exact way you do on this topic. It didn't take me very long to figure out I was wrong.
unofan
Well-known member
That's also a hate crime, numb nuts.
Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here
Read back to the original post on this discussion. Classy name-calling, though.
Read back to the original post on this discussion. Classy name-calling, though.
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