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Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

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Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

Brenthoven said:
Related: The movie Winter's Bone (starring Jen Lawrence) didn't use ALL actors. Some were locals. And you can tell. There are some scary people out there.
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The current issue of Reason has an article about people trapped in WV and why they don't just leave. I think to understand the people you can just read Tobacco Road. That's about Georgia in 1932 but the people in WV in 2017 are exactly the same.
 
Kepler said:
The current issue of Reason has an article about people trapped in WV and why they don't just leave. I think to understand the people you can just read Tobacco Road. That's about Georgia in 1932 but the people in WV in 2017 are exactly the same.
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Talk like that is why tD is going to be #45 in 8 days.
 
Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

joecct said:
Talk like that is why tD is going to be #45 in 8 days.
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You must have loaded my statements with assumptions, because I didn't say anything negative.

I think you should know by now that if I don't care for a group, I'll let you know.

The WVers are stuck. They have no skills or prospects, and they won't get any if they stay, but they don't go. They are like the poor in Europe in the 1850s who didn't come to America.

They're f-cked, and it's a shame.
 
Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

Kepler said:
You must have loaded my statements with assumptions, because I didn't say anything negative.

I think you should know by now that if I don't care for a group, I'll let you know.

The WVers are stuck. They have no skills or prospects, and they won't get any if they stay, but they don't go. They are like the poor in Europe in the 1850s who didn't come to America.

They're f-cked, and it's a shame.
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I'll back Kep on this. The people of WV that we are talking about seem rather stuck in time. Some because that's what they want, and others because they can't go anywhere else.
 
Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

Brenthoven said:
I'll back Kep on this. The people of WV that we are talking about seem rather stuck in time. Some because that's what they want, and others because they can't go anywhere else.
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It's not a mindset I can understand, but as opposed to some groups I can't find any mockery in my heart for these people. They're my neighbors. They live at the bare edge of subsistence where criminality is a rational decision. The girls sell themselves, the boys steal, and everybody is self-medicating on pain pills.

These are not "nice" people. Like drug addicts, you wouldn't turn your back on them because their life circumstances have eroded everything except the drive for self-preservation, and they will hurt or kill to get what they want with no compunction. They are scrabbling through life on their fingernails, and like a prison population they will use every shiv and f-ck over everyone in their way because they have to. They are mankind primieval. Come from near and far, radical libertarians, and see your beloved idol in the flesh: Man without the State.
 
Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

walrus said:
Nice article on how Canada and the US became addicted to Oxys and how much money the pharmaceutical companys made doing it.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/investigations/oxycontin/article33448409/
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It's interesting because I got into an argument with my roommate about this. He basically argued that only 1% of the population is addicted to opiates and those who have that issue is more because of abuse and whatnot. I tried to find peer reviewed research of this and the first one I found was funded by Purdue and SHOCKINGLY came to that same conclusion.

The thing is drugs like Xanax and Oxy shouldn't be used to treat long term conditions, the addiction potential is way too high and there are less addictive ways to manage these problems.
 
Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

Just to note - Xanax is certainly a drug of abuse, but it's not in the opiate painkiller class. It's an anxiolytic, meant to be used for acute severe panic attacks.

EDIT: And yes, I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. ;)
 
Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

walrus said:
Nice article on how Canada and the US became addicted to Oxys and how much money the pharmaceutical companys made doing it.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/investigations/oxycontin/article33448409/
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What I learned from that article is that governmental health organizations didn't check any of the claims by the manufacturer and that doctors liked free trips enough to not really care what they were prescribing their patients.

I'm sure times are different now than in 1996 when OxyContin was first introduced but no doctor should ever take the word of a medical sales rep as fact. They're trying to sell their drugs and if they lie, so be it. Too often, I hear stories from my pharmacist girlfriend who tells of doctors who just prescribe something to get the patient out of there. Those that do that should have their licenses taken away and face jail time.
 
Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

cF[Authentic] said:
What I learned from that article is that governmental health organizations didn't check any of the claims by the manufacturer and that doctors liked free trips enough to not really care what they were prescribing their patients.

I'm sure times are different now than in 1996 when OxyContin was first introduced but no doctor should ever take the word of a medical sales rep as fact. They're trying to sell their drugs and if they lie, so be it. Too often, I hear stories from my pharmacist girlfriend who tells of doctors who just prescribe something to get the patient out of there. Those that do that should have their licenses taken away and face jail time.
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One of my regular clients was having some dental work done a while back and his wife is a pharmacist as well. She only filled about a fifth of what the doctor prescribed for it. Heck, I had a hernia repair back on Halloween and I only used like 6 of the pain pills they gave me.
 
Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

cF[Authentic] said:
What I learned from that article is that governmental health organizations didn't check any of the claims by the manufacturer and that doctors liked free trips enough to not really care what they were prescribing their patients.

I'm sure times are different now than in 1996 when OxyContin was first introduced but no doctor should ever take the word of a medical sales rep as fact. They're trying to sell their drugs and if they lie, so be it. Too often, I hear stories from my pharmacist girlfriend who tells of doctors who just prescribe something to get the patient out of there. Those that do that should have their licenses taken away and face jail time.
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It is even better than that. So back in the early 80s a doctor wrote a letter to the editor of of one of the medical journals (forget which one) where he said at his clinic there was no evidence of these opioids being harmful or addictive. He wasnt making suggestions, wasnt peer reviewed just saying what he saw. The drug companies seized this and lobbied hospitals to over prescribe them. Almost immediately that was proven false but by then Pandora's box was opened...

I heard an interview with a guy wrote a book about this (on Marc Maron's Podcast) and he found that doctor years later and the doctor had no clue the letter had been published or that it was being used the way it was. He was none too pleased...
 
Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
Just to note - Xanax is certainly a drug of abuse, but it's not in the opiate painkiller class. It's an anxiolytic, meant to be used for acute severe panic attacks.

EDIT: And yes, I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. ;)
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I know that, I just used it as another example of a drug that really shouldn't be prescribed as much as it is due to the high potential for abuse.
 
Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

cF[Authentic] said:
I'm sure times are different now than in 1996 when OxyContin was first introduced but no doctor should ever take the word of a medical sales rep as fact. They're trying to sell their drugs and if they lie, so be it. Too often, I hear stories from my pharmacist girlfriend who tells of doctors who just prescribe something to get the patient out of there. Those that do that should have their licenses taken away and face jail time.
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Word.

The role of a pharmaceutical rep is much more limited now but they are still present at most major hospitals. If anyone is interested, "Bad Pharma" is an excellent book describing the pharmaceutical industry in a non-witch-hunting way. Anyway, the reps keep profiles on doctors including a rating on how susceptible they are to being persuaded by certain types of data.

A couple of days ago I was approached by a rep from a company of a medication I use frequently. I use it frequently because it is an effective medication, with limited side effects, and very good independent research to back it up. He asked me why I never come to any of the dinners that his company hosts (I guess they must have a file on me). I told him that I felt that dinners payed for by pharmaceutical companies violated my personal ethics. He countered that they were just meet and greets and there was no pressure to use the drug. I replied that there is no way he would have a job, and no way that his company would pay for a steak dinner unless it had a strong influence on my prescribing habits because his company is just not that stupid. He did not have a reply...
 
Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

On a slightly lesser scale is the college textbook racket.

Professor writes a textbook. Uses textbook in his class. Gets royalties from the sales of his textbook.
 
Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

I'll add my $0.02 here. I'm an engineer at a fairly large company. We get taken out to lunch and the occasional sporting event by our vendors. It doesn't truly affect my opinion of the vendor.

More often than not the vendor will use the time to talk about new products and technologies they have to offer. We will take those technologies back to work, we'll discuss them and weigh the pros and cons.

If the technology makes sense, we'll give it a shot. We'll get feedback and determine if we want to make it standardized equipment. If we see major problems with equipment, whether it's a new technology or something we've been using for ten years, we'll have no issues dumping it.

The lunches are just a nice 'thank you' for the business. If you let that cloud your judgment, then yes, it's probably a bad idea to accept them. But if you do a critical and fair evaluation of the new drug or equipment, there is no problem with accepting a lunch here and there.
 
Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

dxmnkd316 said:
I'll add my $0.02 here. I'm an engineer at a fairly large company. We get taken out to lunch and the occasional sporting event by our vendors. It doesn't truly affect my opinion of the vendor.

More often than not the vendor will use the time to talk about new products and technologies they have to offer. We will take those technologies back to work, we'll discuss them and weigh the pros and cons.

If the technology makes sense, we'll give it a shot. We'll get feedback and determine if we want to make it standardized equipment. If we see major problems with equipment, whether it's a new technology or something we've been using for ten years, we'll have no issues dumping it.

The lunches are just a nice 'thank you' for the business. If you let that cloud your judgment, then yes, it's probably a bad idea to accept them. But if you do a critical and fair evaluation of the new drug or equipment, there is no problem with accepting a lunch here and there.
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My company has a strict policy of no freebies, just to avoid the appearance of preference. A box of donuts? Nope. Can't take 'em. Do I find it silly at times? Yes. Do I understand? Yes.
 
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