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New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

Shirtless Guy said:
So Coaches think it will pass:
http://blog.collegehockeynews.com/2015/12/growing-belief-among-coaches-big-10-proposal-will-pass/
Click to expand...
Anybody interested in starting a campaign to vote against this proposal? Here's our target audience...

http://web1.ncaa.org/committees/committees_roster.jsp?CommitteeName=1COUNCIL

If we want to do more than just complain on a message board, we'll need to hammer these folks with emails, Tweets, calls, and any other form of direct communication we can think of. As the CHN post states, they'll just see it's a proposal from the B1G and rubber stamp it if they're not aware of the issue. Happy to see any comments in support of this idea. Feel free to keep the cynicism to yourself.

EDIT: Here's a simple tracker for our lobbying efforts. I'll try to format it and update it in my spare time. Anybody on this thread want access to edit?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oYfLhOXNghcsZxm3cOqwKUSn3hGWMHEV5H3GE5MAFDw/edit#gid=0
 
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Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

The Exiled One said:
Anybody interested in starting a campaign to vote against this proposal? Here's our target audience...

http://web1.ncaa.org/committees/committees_roster.jsp?CommitteeName=1COUNCIL

If we want to do more than just complain on a message board, we'll need to hammer these folks with emails, Tweets, calls, and any other form of direct communication we can think of. As the CHN post states, they'll just see it's a proposal from the B1G and rubber stamp it if they're not aware of the issue. Happy to see any comments in support of this idea. Feel free to keep the cynicism to yourself.
Click to expand...

I'm good with doing something, I can even post some general stats to refute some things, like the stockpiling comment. If people want to include links to the impacts on americans, and complete lack of evidence that 21-yos are typically stockpiled.

The whole gathering the list of reasons for the rule was to write an article refuting all the claims.

The other big thing, might be providing the reps from Colgate, Canisius, Connecticut (where do they fall on this?), Harvard, and the Mid-American Conference reps with the information so they have ammunition at the committee meeting?

What would also be helpful from fans of teams is for someone to take the time to get ahold of their own team/athletic department and attempt to confirm who would have been affected by this rule if it existed the last 5 years. I can provide you with the list of likely and potential players for each team.
 
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Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

If this (mostly) pointless and mean-spirited proposal passes, it ought to have a rider attached that no Regionals will ever again be played at Yost or Mariucci, which seems to be under consideration again... You want "fair", then be fair.
 
Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

Random thoughts on Christmas Eve morn where it is 65 degrees headed for mid 70s in the Free State.

Check out the number of commits for the Ivy schools. Stockpiling??

And the non scholarship schools can sign any number they want - they're not bound by the 18/30 athletic scholarship rules.

If/When this does pass, what is the effect on the pay to play junior leagues?
 
Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

For the junior leagues, it won't be disastrous, but the quality of play will take a dip as their top guys aren't there quite as long as they once had been.
 
Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

So.... if this legislation passes, when will it go into effect? Will there be a grace period? Would it be immediate?
 
Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

So I dug a little deeper into stats via NCES (http://nces.ed.gov/) and found the distribution of full-time undergraduate male students.
The WCHA and AHA are the oldest leagues by far...but if you take the number for players 22 and older, they both are about average compared to all students in college and slightly high compared to 4-year non-profit institutions (public and private).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rljza9150...lege hockey vs general student body.xlsx?dl=0
College Hockey overall compares pretty well to All Male undergraduate students attending 4-year, non-profit institutions.

Let me know how that link works out.
 
Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

Shirtless Guy said:
So I dug a little deeper into stats via NCES (http://nces.ed.gov/) and found the distribution of full-time undergraduate male students.
The WCHA and AHA are the oldest leagues by far...but if you take the number for players 22 and older, they both are about average compared to all students in college and slightly high compared to 4-year non-profit institutions (public and private).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rljza9150...lege hockey vs general student body.xlsx?dl=0
College Hockey overall compares pretty well to All Male undergraduate students attending 4-year, non-profit institutions.

Let me know how that link works out.
Click to expand...

It works.

It might be more useful if you add 3 years for all freshmen, 2 for sophs, and 1 for juniors, so the information isn't biased by the class distribution.

FWIW, you have "ungraduates" at of U of M.
 
Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

Ralph Baer said:
It works.

It might be more useful if you add 3 years for all freshmen, 2 for sophs, and 1 for juniors, so the information isn't biased by the class distribution.

FWIW, you have "ungraduates" at of U of M.
Click to expand...

Thanks,
It might be useful to adjust all the hockey players but I can't adjust the other data to see at what age everyone graduates? Am I understanding your suggestion correctly? I think using conferences as a whole does a decent job of averaging out classes already.
 
Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

Shirtless Guy said:
Thanks,
It might be useful to adjust all the hockey players but I can't adjust the other data to see at what age everyone graduates? Am I understanding your suggestion correctly? I think using conferences as a whole does a decent job of averaging out classes already.
Click to expand...

I think that you understood what I wrote. My reasoning was more to gauge the full impact of this since 21-year-old freshmen become 24-years-old seniors, etc., but they are counted as being 21 in your table. Then again, a lot of the under-18-year-old frosh never become under-21--year-old seniors, since most probably leave early.
 
davyd83 said:
That would pretty much wash out players deciding between college and Major Junior, where they start playing at 16.
Click to expand...

I guess that's kinda my point. If the intent is to truly "clean up" college hockey, that might mean doing some things that affect your own (in this case the B10) self interest. They are willing to negatively affect other schools, but aren't willing to do it to themselves. "Looking out for the students" means looking out for them in all instances, not just in the instances that conveniently don't affect you.

The U accepted a commitment from a 15 yo yesterday. That means he's going to be committed for a minimum of nearmy 4 years...unless he accelerates his senior year of college. That's good for the kids? Seems to me it's easy for people/fans/coaches to make decisions that could adversely affect other kids/coaches, but aren't willing to even think about doing it for their own.
 
Bale said:
I guess that's kinda my point. If the intent is to truly "clean up" college hockey, that might mean doing some things that affect your own (in this case the B10) self interest. They are willing to negatively affect other schools, but aren't willing to do it to themselves. "Looking out for the students" means looking out for them in all instances, not just in the instances that conveniently don't affect you.

The U accepted a commitment from a 15 yo yesterday. That means he's going to be committed for a minimum of nearmy 4 years...unless he accelerates his senior year of college. That's good for the kids? Seems to me it's easy for people/fans/coaches to make decisions that could adversely affect other kids/coaches, but aren't willing to even think about doing it for their own.
Click to expand...
Thank God the B1G is here to protect us against the evils of stockpiling recruits.
 
Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

Fishman'81 said:
If this (mostly) pointless and mean-spirited proposal passes, it ought to have a rider attached that no Regionals will ever again be played at Yost or Mariucci, which seems to be under consideration again... You want "fair", then be fair.
Click to expand...

I managed to succeed in life even though I was cruelly made a freshmen at Minnesota when I was 17. Oh, the mean-spirited of having to be a 20 year old freshmen is lost on me. Why is it so cruel and unfair?
 
Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

manurespreader said:
According to CHN this will most likely be passed fairly easily.
Click to expand...

And, probably 90% of those who will vote on this haven't a clue about college hockey and further have never heard of the Canadian Junior Leagues. Don Lucia and The BIG will then belong in the same conversation as John McCardell and Roger Hull. I'm sure many readers here know about JM and RH (hint: the latter is the 40%'er). They unsuccessfully did their best to phase out/hamper some small schools (i.e., CC, CCT, SLU, and RPI) about 10 yrs. ago; Lucia and THE BIG are doing their best to phase out/hamper ALL of the small schools.

A reminder to Lucia and his sour grapes: Union 7 - UM 4 Men and CCT 5 - UM 4 Women; and OMG, both in the same year.
 
Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

Muskieman said:
And, probably 90% of those who will vote on this haven't a clue about college hockey and further have never heard of the Canadian Junior Leagues. Don Lucia and The BIG will then belong in the same conversation as John McCardell and Roger Hull. I'm sure many readers here know about JM and RH (hint: the latter is the 40%'er). They unsuccessfully did their best to phase out/hamper some small schools (i.e., CC, CCT, SLU, and RPI) about 10 yrs. ago; Lucia and THE BIG are doing their best to phase out/hamper ALL of the small schools.

A reminder to Lucia and his sour grapes: Union 7 - UM 4 Men and CCT 5 - UM 4 Women; and OMG, both in the same year.
Click to expand...

you forgot to mention the other 10 National Championships for Minnesota. How many for union and cct? I am curious, because I can't find any information on all their other hockey championships.
 
Re: New age restrictions for NCAA hockey

Happy said:
you forgot to mention the other 10 National Championships for Minnesota. How many for union and cct? I am curious, because I can't find any information on all their other hockey championships.
Click to expand...

Isn't that exactly the point? Lucia is having a fit because of some recent events that did not go in the way of his school.

Let me restate my opinion on the topic. My main concern is the underhanded way this came about without apparently discussing this with representatives of the 60 hockey-paying schools first. I have long been of the opinion that there is something wrong about 21-year-old freshmen and only accepted it when it was pointed out that it was age discrimination if they were not allowed.
 
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