NCAA Regionals Must be on campus

[Nick Papagiorgio]

Re: NCAA Regionals Must be on campus

The NCAA needs to rethink every single thing they are doing as far as the NCAA hockey tournament is concerned.

 

[johnk]

Re: NCAA Regionals Must be on campus

Would it be to far fetched to have 2 permanent sites with 2 arenas in each area? Example have the East Regional day 1 in Worcester and Northeast Regional Day 1 in Providence. Then day 2 have both games at one of the 2 sites. It limits where you can do this but if the Detroit area or Minneapolis areas could work, try in for a 3 year period and see what happens.

 

[GB Puck Fan]

Re: NCAA Regionals Must be on campus

Trusting that Ed asked about many of the issues raised in this forum, seems to me that Metcalf isn't nearly as concerned about the issues as we are, or he simply isn't letting on that he's concerned.

I get he's going to put a best foot forward (ie Loveland optimism) but doesn't address attendance, lack of bids, concerns about the bid/price structure, etc...

 

[davyd83]

Would it be to far fetched to have 2 permanent sites with 2 arenas in each area? Example have the East Regional day 1 in Worcester and Northeast Regional Day 1 in Providence. Then day 2 have both games at one of the 2 sites. It limits where you can do this but if the Detroit area or Minneapolis areas could work, try in for a 3 year period and see what happens.

Having 2 teams pack up and travel for day 2 doesn’t seem like a good idea.

 

[johnk]

Having 2 teams pack up and travel for day 2 doesn’t seem like a good idea.

ECAC does it every weekend. This would be same hotel, different rink. If they lose they pack up and go home. No big deal.

 

[davyd83]

ECAC does it every weekend. This would be same hotel, different rink. If they lose they pack up and go home. No big deal.

You’re not going to find 2 rinks in the same market to host. They’re having enough trouble finding four rinks in the whole country, much less two quailed facilities. There are very few markets that would have 2 facilities available at the same time.

 

[Ed Trefzger]

Re: NCAA Regionals Must be on campus

Trusting that Ed asked about many of the issues raised in this forum, seems to me that Metcalf isn't nearly as concerned about the issues as we are, or he simply isn't letting on that he's concerned.

I get he's going to put a best foot forward (ie Loveland optimism) but doesn't address attendance, lack of bids, concerns about the bid/price structure, etc...

We talked about quite a bit more than I had room for in the article. Attendance is mentioned briefly. They were not concerned as this year was about the average of the last several, though not having North Dakota in Fargo lowered attendance even though tickets were sold out. I did ask about what particular requirements might be limiting bids, but that was a question that he wasn't able to really answer because the reasons may differ from location to location.

 

[John J. MacInnes]

Re: NCAA Regionals Must be on campus

Glad you mentioned this. I was going to mention this last week. It's been fairly effective in getting the job done too, although I guess we'd have to poll the media folks that have dealt with the temporary press staging in some of the stands to be sure.

For writers, not as big an issue. It's very difficult for radio to move out into the stands. US Bank Arena did this in Cincinnati, and it was probably one of the worst setups any of those four stations had to deal with all season. Power is a problem, so are the sight lines, and there's almost no way to get scoring information outside of the wonky WiFi. I also remember the Pepsi Arena in Albany having issues with this back in the day. But just because you're not out in the stands doesn't make it necessarily better - Van Andel Arena in Grand Rapids was substandard at best, for example. I also seem to remember that Bridgeport was sketchy too.

 

[Sean Pickett]

The *host* RECEIVES the lesser of budgeted or actual expenses -- so the NCAA pays for expenses.

No, the NCAA does not pay for expenses. The host must cover them out of the revenue over $150,000 and if the actual expenses are over the budget then they lose that amount and have to try and cover them from their 20% of the profit. The host assumed 100% of the risk for at most 20% of any profit.

As stated in previous posts, “Why host?”

Sean

 

[Ed Trefzger]

Re: NCAA Regionals Must be on campus

I also remember the Pepsi Arena in Albany having issues with this back in the day.

Both times I broadcast from Albany, we were set up on the front row of the balcony. In 2010, we were in the regular arena seats. In 2016, we had a table.

 

[Numbers]

Re: NCAA Regionals Must be on campus

From the article, and I am sorry I don't know how to do the quoting properly:

"Finally, the specifications require a financial guarantee to the NCAA of $150,000. After all receipts from the regional have been determined and the NCAA has received its guarantee, the host receives the lesser amount of budgeted or actual expenses. Any remaining receipts above that amount are split 80% to the NCAA and 20% to the host institutions or conferences."

I read this to say that:
#1 - NCAA gets, 150K guaranteed
#2 - From what is left at that point, the host get its expenses covered (Note to hosts: budget high because if there are cost overruns they are NOT covered by this piece)
#3 - If there is anything left at all, it's split 80/20

This is why we call it the NC$$.

That's horrible. Just horrible. In order to bid, the host has to be sure that they will make more than 150K profit. But they also need to rent the place for 3 days (because the NCAA wants access a day ahead), and pay for all the labor to re-do all the signage. As well as the comfort level guarantees....

Think about that. For an event with an average of 15000 tickets sold, the prices have to be high enough that the host will make 150K profit. PROFIT. And, then, and only then, do they begin to actually make anything for themselves.

Yuck!!!

 

[chickod]

Re: NCAA Regionals Must be on campus

Would it be to far fetched to have 2 permanent sites with 2 arenas in each area? Example have the East Regional day 1 in Worcester and Northeast Regional Day 1 in Providence. Then day 2 have both games at one of the 2 sites. It limits where you can do this but if the Detroit area or Minneapolis areas could work, try in for a 3 year period and see what happens.

Isn't the point of a "regional" to have the teams "housed" there for the entire weekend? Why would you want to travel in between games?

 

[ticapnews]

This is why we call it the NC$$.

That's horrible. Just horrible. In order to bid, the host has to be sure that they will make more than 150K profit. But they also need to rent the place for 3 days (because the NCAA wants access a day ahead), and pay for all the labor to re-do all the signage. As well as the comfort level guarantees....

Think about that. For an event with an average of 15000 tickets sold, the prices have to be high enough that the host will make 150K profit. PROFIT. And, then, and only then, do they begin to actually make anything for themselves.

Yuck!!!

But if you budget too high you won't win because someone else (especially in the east) will have a better bid. You really do need an army of volunteers to make it work.

 

[johnk]

Isn't the point of a "regional" to have the teams "housed" there for the entire weekend? Why would you want to travel in between games?

The point is to have people show up and if you would have 2 games at the same spot instead of 1 at 2 different arenas you should be able to cut costs and increase attendance. The venues would need to be fairly close. Within a 30-40 mile radius. Not ideal but trying to look at different options.

 

[Numbers]

Re: NCAA Regionals Must be on campus

What if we extrapolate the NCAA requirements to the other ideas thrown out here?

1- 3 weekend system. In this case, the 8 host schools from weekend 1 would have to reserve hotel rooms, pay for change of signage in their home arenas, grant NCAA access for 2 days (not one), and guarantee the NCAA 50K before even their own expenses were taken care of. What we actually need here is a good estimate of what it would actually cost to host. I think most schools would end up losing on this one. Then, if you have weekend #2 be 2 games at a regional site, the host site has to reserve the arena for 2 days, pay all the costs, etc, and guarantee the NCAA again 50K. I happen to think this is a better dear for the hosts. But the first weekend kills the idea, really.

2- Top 4 seeds host the region. Aside from all the pragmatic issues we have discussed here before - like media space, hotel rooms, etc.... - you still would have something like the NCAA demanding their cut.

What this really means is: As long as arenas and schools continue to bid to host under the current system, it won't change. There is no other system which guarantees the NCAA a 150K per site profit on the regionals. Add the whole business together, and I would be sure that the NCAA profits 1M on just the regionals.

 

[Ed Trefzger]

Re: NCAA Regionals Must be on campus

There is no other system which guarantees the NCAA a 150K per site profit on the regionals. Add the whole business together, and I would be sure that the NCAA profits 1M on just the regionals.

The $150K isn't straight profit for the NCAA. They need to cover travel expenses and hotel rooms for four teams. If the hotel rooms are double occupancy, they need about 450 room-nights per their bid specs. If the rooms are $150/night, that's $67,500 right there. If flights are involved, that's another significant expense. They also have to cover travel for their people and for D-I committee members.

So while the NCAA needs the guarantee, it's not just $150K in their pocket.

 

[chickod]

Re: NCAA Regionals Must be on campus

The point is to have people show up and if you would have 2 games at the same spot instead of 1 at 2 different arenas you should be able to cut costs and increase attendance. The venues would need to be fairly close. Within a 30-40 mile radius. Not ideal but trying to look at different options.

Sorry, I just don't get the reasoning. You're going to have both regional finals at one site? So one of the sites only has the two first-round games and that's it? What if the fans of the winning team haven't rented cars and can't get from one site to the other? What if they don't want to take public transportation (if it exists)? What if they just booked a hotel for two nights next to the arena where they plan to attend? Are they supposed to cancel the second night and move to another hotel? For one night? Or drive back to their original hotel? It just makes no sense.

 

[Numbers]

Re: NCAA Regionals Must be on campus

The $150K isn't straight profit for the NCAA. They need to cover travel expenses and hotel rooms for four teams. If the hotel rooms are double occupancy, they need about 450 room-nights per their bid specs. If the rooms are $150/night, that's $67,500 right there. If flights are involved, that's another significant expense. They also have to cover travel for their people and for D-I committee members.

So while the NCAA needs the guarantee, it's not just $150K in their pocket.

$67,500 for hotels is about 11% of their 4 region guarantee. That's not much. But I do see your point.

My point is that those costs exist regardless of the system. If some teams are hosting, then there are no hotel rooms necessary for those teams, so there is some savings. But that doesn't really change the calculation. This system obviously is the one which is best for the NCAA $-wise. And, that's why it will stay.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: NCAA Regionals Must be on campus

$67,500 for hotels is about 11% of their 4 region guarantee. That's not much. But I do see your point.

My point is that those costs exist regardless of the system. If some teams are hosting, then there are no hotel rooms necessary for those teams, so there is some savings. But that doesn't really change the calculation. This system obviously is the one which is best for the NCAA $-wise. And, that's why it will stay.

Uh, isn’t that $67k per regional?

 

[johnk]

Sorry, I just don't get the reasoning. You're going to have both regional finals at one site? So one of the sites only has the two first-round games and that's it? What if the fans of the winning team haven't rented cars and can't get from one site to the other? What if they don't want to take public transportation (if it exists)? What if they just booked a hotel for two nights next to the arena where they plan to attend? Are they supposed to cancel the second night and move to another hotel? For one night? Or drive back to their original hotel? It just makes no sense.

First I would say 75% of the people drive to regionals. Uber is not that tough. Lastly, you make it sound like I want the arenas 150 miles apart. And yes, every other year an arena only gets one night. I would try this on a 4 year basis. Same sites. Each arena would get 6 nights instead of 8. Sick of seeing teams play in front of 3-4000 fans to go to the Frozen 4. If my teams not involved, I'm sure more willing to go to see 2 games at these prices, than one.