NCAA is Missing the Boat

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

All you nancies coming up with clever things like "NC$$", who's supposed to pay for it? Honest question. Clearly nothing makes money except for the basketball tournament on whose coattails just about every other sport rides.

This is NOT true.

And personally, I'm getting tired of this misperception. The hockey tournament, the last time numbers were released, was the second highest profit making tournament for the NCAA. Granted, it pales to what the BB tourney makes, and you're right, everybody else pretty much rides the BB coattails, but hockey does turn a profit. And has for a long time.

The wrestling tournament also turns a profit, as does the Swimming and Diving national championship event. And I want to say I recently heard another sport's championship is starting to go in the black, but I can't remember which one.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

Is there a body who prescribes minimum ticket prices for the hockey tournament regionals ?

Would they be the same body who has allowed the Detroit organizers to market the $ 40 package, whist the subscriber base pays four times as much to enter the same venue ?

Just curious.

I sure hope those $40 seats are essentially worthless seats so far away you may as well watch from home. Because I'm going to be p*ss*d if those seats are no worse off than the $189 seats I paid for!

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

I'm sure we can all deal with that.

Except for possibly the host schools.... I think you need more than a week to plan for an event like that. I could be wrong, but it seems like a lot of work to find worthy hotels for 3 other teams (well 2 more than normal).

And you do need to make sure there are "enough" seats for each team. 500/team isn't a big deal in a place like the Schott, but is where the rink only holds 4000 fans.

Still, considering the issues, that should be workable.

Even if the school itself doesn't have the capacity, I'm sure there's a nearby facility that would be able to provide appropriate capacity. Albany would be good if RPI or Union is 1-4. Xcel if it's Minnesota. Possibly an exception to this would be Clarkson/SLU should they make it to #1-4 again, as the nearest large rink is in Canada (or they could use Lake Placid, but it's still a decent length trip). That way, you have the best of both worlds. It's neutral, but still close enough that you get a good amount of fans.

 

[BeloBrasil]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

I have to agree with all that has been espoused in this thread about this past weekend's NCAA regionals. I was at all three (3) games this weekend in Worcester and the atmosphere could best be described as languid. No energy, no buzz, and the place was as "quiet as a church mouse" during both of Saturday's games.

In defense of the format I do very much like the sites chosen for the Northeast Regionals. The venue alternates between the Verizon Wireless Center in Manchester, New Hampshire and the D.C.U. Center in Worcester, MA. Both arenas have decent seating capacity and both are in small cities where there are plenty of places to sleep, park, and eat on the cheap. I think most people coming in for the weekend would prefer cities where accommodations, parking, and meals are reasonable as opposed to paying through the nose in an overpriced locale like Boston.

Now, as for some proposed changes I would submit the following:

1. Let's keep the regionals a wholly geographical affair. Looking at the teams participating in this year's tourney you could have placed Boston College, UNH, Vermont, and Yale all in Worcester, MA. Having Alaska-Fairbanks and North Dakota play in northeast is a joke. Very few fans for those two (2) programs and no band for either team. Granted, the purist in me likes to see some variety in the teams appearing, but I would forgo variety and seeding for the palpable buzz that say a UNH vs. BC final may have brought. Yale and BC had by far the most fans in attendance this week. Throw in the UNH and Vermont fans and I say you bang out the DCU Center!

2. Unbundle the ticket sales! I am not sure if this has already been done, but if it has not let us for once and for all finally do away with any requirement of having to buy both days and let the consumer pick and choose what day he or she wants to attend. I would NOT however, have separate admissions for the first day. I think most like the back-to-back game format so let's not return to the bad ole days of separate admissions.

3. LIGHTEN UP NCAA. I remember attending a regional a few years back and the NCAA ordering the B.U. Band to remove its highly offensive "B.U. Dog Pound" banner. Someone else on this thread said something about the NCAA not allowing a couple of kids to bring their thunder sticks in to the Fort Wayne venue. I certainly understand the greater good trying to be served here, but the dwindling attendance at these regionals should be an indication to the NCAA that they are smothering the life energy right out of the game what with their parens patrie approach to managing fan behavior.

4. Consider (possibly) some on campus sites at some of college hockey's high capacity venues. Here in the northeast I could think of several college venues that might serve nicely as possible venues. Boston University's Agannis Arena, UMass-Lowell's Tsongas Center, UMass Amherst's Mullins Center, UNH's Wittemore Center, and Quinnipiac University's TD Bank Sports Center. None of these venues have the capacity of the sites currently in use, but if the regionals are only attracting 6,000 or so people then why not choose some cozier venues so there are not so many embarrassingly empty seats.

5. Say "So long" to world wide leader in sports entertainment! The NCAA should send ESPN packing. They pay short shrift to college hockey during the regular season so why pray tell do they get to broadcast the NCAA playoffs? I say let the CBS College Sport Network broadcast the games. They do a great job during the season and they would do a far better job than ESPN! Sure, we would still have the interminable television timeouts, but at least those watching at home would be feted to a quality broadcast by a network that actually cares about the game. Granted they might be busy with that "other" tournament ongoing at the same time, but those games are shown on their main network and not their college sports dedicated network so I think it would work.

Well that's my "two cents" on the subject. Perhaps someone at the NCAA actually reads these posts and might take notice!

 

[alfablue]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

5. Say "So long" to world wide leader in sports entertainment! The NCAA should send ESPN packing. They pay short shrift to college hockey during the regular season so why pray tell do they get to broadcast the NCAA playoffs? I say let the CBS College Sport Network broadcast the games. They do a great job during the season and they would do a far better job than ESPN! Sure, we would still have the interminable television timeouts, but at least those watching at home would be feted to a quality broadcast by a network that actually cares about the game. Granted they might be busy with that "other" tournament ongoing at the same time, but those games are shown on their main network and not their college sports dedicated network so I think it would work.

One thing about that- for at least one of the regionals, ESPN may have been the "host" but the crew were all from somewhere else- the midwest team was on Comcast a number of times. It's not all ESPN that's doing a bad job- it's that there's a rather shallow pool available to them. FSN isn't going to let their team play with ESPN.

Fox Sports is generally who are the best out west, and who broadcast the most collegate games.

Besides, before- it was just syndication, and you would be lucky to see other regionals. At leat now, IF you have the U, you could stream the games... Not perfect, but nationally, better than before. Just not great in some small regions.

 

[Priceless]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

5. Say "So long" to world wide leader in sports entertainment! The NCAA should send ESPN packing. They pay short shrift to college hockey during the regular season so why pray tell do they get to broadcast the NCAA playoffs? I say let the CBS College Sport Network broadcast the games. They do a great job during the season and they would do a far better job than ESPN! Sure, we would still have the interminable television timeouts, but at least those watching at home would be feted to a quality broadcast by a network that actually cares about the game. Granted they might be busy with that "other" tournament ongoing at the same time, but those games are shown on their main network and not their college sports dedicated network so I think it would work.

The NCAA forces ESPN to televise hockey, as well as baseball, soccer, lax etc as part of their agreement for hoops. That's why ESPN is able to tell Gonzaga to play at 9pm local time on a school night. If the NCAA ever told ESPN that they didn't have to televise the hockey tournament, they'd drop us like the plague and air poker in its place. They get higher ratings broadcasting a six-year old poker tournament than college hockey anyway.

All 12 regional games were televised; 8 live on ESPNU. The others were picked up live on other networks or tape delayed on the U. The reason they chose the U (aside from the lousy ratings) was to get you to call your provider and either 1) upgrade to a package that includes the U or 2) make the channel available for purchase if it isn't already.

 

[RedFreak]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

Besides, before- it was just syndication, and you would be lucky to see other regionals. At leat now, IF you have the U, you could stream the games... Not perfect, but nationally, better than before. Just not great in some small regions.

I have been able to watch most regional games the last several years with my Charter Expanded Basic package at home in Madison, WI. This year? Nadda. Zippo. Squat.

 

[alfablue]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

I have been able to watch most regional games the last several years with my Charter Expanded Basic package at home in Madison, WI. This year? Nadda. Zippo. Squat.

I know there are exceptions, but still, before, TBA would never have seen a single game in SoCal, and now IF he had the right ESPN thing, he would.

There are a bunch here in SE MI who are also having issues...

Charter and ESPN need to talk better to each other.

 

[Hobbit]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

The only problem I had was the price of a ticket. The tickets for the West region games were $52, which is a lot when you already have to drive four hours to get to the game. I don't understand why they were so high. I think if the ticket prices drop to 30/35 a lot more local people show up to the game, which would make the overall experience better instead of only having 7k in a place that seats 18k. How was the attendence in the other regions? I really thought SCSU would have a student section...they had about 20 fans below there band. I was surprised by the lack of SCSU students. Overall my experience was great, which probably has to do with UW going to the frozen four.

Agree! We headed down to the X for the final game (I'm a gopher fan, my buddy a bucky fan) to see if we could score tickets. There were plenty of people that would have been willing to spend $30-$35 that just went to the bars/home to see the game. The attendance for the final was around 7k...pretty sad for one of the best hockey venues in the country.

I'm sure there is a price point for max revenue...and I am willing to bet it was a good deal less than $52. Sell tix $30/35, bump attendance to around 10-12k, and sell lots of concessions.

 

[Stauber1]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

It's somewhat funny to me that so many are suggesting bringing regionals to a school's home rink. This has happened numerous times in the past for the west and midwest regionals, and is always met with heavy criticism from the visiting schools. So now the NCAA has said it won't ever happen again, and everybody wants to go back to it

Personally, I like having regionals on-campus. Yes, there is an advantage, but it gets shuffled around and can hurt a team one year and help the same team another year. And the atmosphere is better.

Ultimately though, I think the easy answer is to reduce the cost. Paying $50 for a game is just too much. Plain and simple. Get some cheaper ticket options and attendance will go up, more students will be there, and the atmosphere will be much much better.

 

[Siouxper Kev]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

I was at Xcel for both days and there's no way there was 7K in that building. Real sad considering SCSU and UW were both there. What more do you want Huskie fans? An hour away and you cant represent? Same goes for Bucky? There is no excuse. The NCAA handed you a gift and both you blow it off. Pathetic.

 

[HockeyMan2000]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

I have to agree with all that has been espoused in this thread about this past weekend's NCAA regionals. I was at all three (3) games this weekend in Worcester and the atmosphere could best be described as languid. No energy, no buzz, and the place was as "quiet as a church mouse" during both of Saturday's games.

And to think what Fort Wayne and Albany were like...

The 2 Regionals thread hit upon a lot of these issues already. They either need to go to 2 sites, bring it to campus sites, etc. -- lowering the ticket cost might help, but it's certainly not the only issue IMO. 4 sites does not seem to be working, and it's been a problem for years -- you can't just say "it's the economy stupid" because it's an on-going issue.

 

[ganzhimself]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

I didn't go to the regional in St. Paul this year, but did attend the '06 regional in Green Bay and the '08 regional in Madison. The biggest problem I have with the regionals is that the NCAA sanitizes the venues so much. In '06 at least three of the schools had their bands there and they got to play a little bit, but during the long TV timeout pauses we had to watch NCAA commercials on the scoreboard rather than enjoy the bands. I mean, c'mon, we know we're at an NCAA event, we don't need to watch every NCAA TV spot that's been made in the past decade. We get it. If they're going to have a break in the action and not let the bands fill-in, show us highlights from the other games. My other gripe was in Madison in '08 you weren't allowed to leave and re-enter between the games on Saturday. With so much being within close proximity to the Kohl, there were a lot of options for food and beverage that were eliminated because the re-entry rule. The same sanitized atomsphere killed the Kohl Center experience, and the place was pretty empty both nights. Ticket prices were $40 per session, and were going for cheaper on the street, but the ticket prices had to be a big factor in turning away a lot of people. So, what I'm saying is this... Drop the ticket prices, doing so will allow more students to attend, that will in turn liven up the atmosphere, as the student section is almost always the heart-and-soul of the crowd. Also, allow the things that make college hockey college hockey, like letting the bands play... Piped in music and commercials ruin the atmosphere.

 

[rvd5star69]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

bad spring break timing is also to blame for students i think.

 

[RedFreak]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

I was at Xcel for both days and there's no way there was 7K in that building. Real sad considering SCSU and UW were both there. What more do you want Huskie fans? An hour away and you cant represent? Same goes for Bucky? There is no excuse. The NCAA handed you a gift and both you blow it off. Pathetic.

You can't compare the Wisconsin and St. Cloud situations. We had just dropped well over $1k the weekend before at the Final Five. Can't turn around and do it again the next weekend, much as we would have liked to. St. Cloud on the other hand could go to the games and sleep in their own beds at the end of the day.

 

[TigerFan86-87]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

Plain and simple. Get some cheaper ticket options and attendance will go up, more students will be there, and the atmosphere will be much much better.

I don't know about the other regionals, but RIT students got into Albany for $20 as opposed to the general public for $46. But they were sent out right after their team's game on Friday.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

It's somewhat funny to me that so many are suggesting bringing regionals to a school's home rink. This has happened numerous times in the past for the west and midwest regionals, and is always met with heavy criticism from the visiting schools. So now the NCAA has said it won't ever happen again, and everybody wants to go back to it

Most of the suggestions I've seen have been to let the higher seeds host, rather than the lame pseudo-neutral site process in the past. The complaints have generally been regarding higher seeds having to go play in an opponent's barn; if the higher seed automatically hosts, that concern goes away. It's still an advantage, but at least the team earned it with a higher seed.

 

[burgie12]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

I don't know about the other regionals, but RIT students got into Albany for $20 as opposed to the general public for $46. But they were sent out right after their team's game on Friday.

Those tickets were subsidized by the school. Assuming that only students picked up the entire allotment of 400 (no alums), RIT paid the ($46 - $20) * 400 * 2 = $20,800 to give the students the cheap tickets to Albany.

Now, that's great for a team making its first appearance. But, can you imagine Michigan paying 21k a year for each of their 20 consecutive appearances so that 1.53% of their undergrads (400 of 26,208) could attend a regional?

Personally, I think the NCAA should offer multiple ticket price brackets. At Albany, there was only youth and adult. Some upper level cheap seats, college student discounts, ... all of these things would improve attendance and atmosphere. Albany was absolutely empty and deathly quiet, except for the RIT contingent. Worcester (I was there on Sunday) was more full, but was also suspiciously quiet.

 

[bigmrg74]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

I think one of the problems that happens most years is that spring breaks are happening about this time. My daughter was off this past week and the UW students were heading out for their break on Saturday. That's a lot of bodies who might normally go but aren't available. The NC$$ needs to figure that out. Oh, and if the WCHA insists on having the Final 5 in Minneapolis every year, then the NCAA regional shouldn't be there. There is only so much $$ that people can afford on consecutive weekends, especially these days.

That's my rant.

Another think I think would be better for timing would be to push the start of the regionals back to the weekend of the Final Four in basketball. Figure that weekend there's 3 really huge games going on, instead of 12 of them. Also, then you run into less problems with Women's BB being on ESPN as well, as thats something else that ESPN is required to broadcast as well as per their contract. Moving the regionals Final Four Weekend would mean that ESPN really only has to schedule the 12 Hockey games around 6 basketball games, and really its only 3 of them that weekend because they know **** well nobody that gives a **** about Men's College BB is realistically going to be watching ESPN when the games are on CBS. Then College hockey won't have to deal with late start times like what we had to deal with in Fort Wayne.

 

[BoomGoestheDynamite]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

Another think I think would be better for timing would be to push the start of the regionals back to the weekend of the Final Four in basketball. Figure that weekend there's 3 really huge games going on, instead of 12 of them. Also, then you run into less problems with Women's BB being on ESPN as well, as thats something else that ESPN is required to broadcast as well as per their contract. Moving the regionals Final Four Weekend would mean that ESPN really only has to schedule the 12 Hockey games around 6 basketball games, and really its only 3 of them that weekend because they know **** well nobody that gives a **** about Men's College BB is realistically going to be watching ESPN when the games are on CBS. Then College hockey won't have to deal with late start times like what we had to deal with in Fort Wayne.

Nice idea. Added bonus is that Basketball (or the men's game, i.e. the relevant tournament) is only on Saturday during the final four weekend, so 2 of the 3 days would be solely occupied by hockey.