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NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

Ummm, you don't really want to compare the number of kids worldwide involved in liquid water sports versus those in frozen water sports, do you??? I don't need to do a two-minute search to know that that won't even be close. So, in true jdubber fashion, start backpedaling, mom.
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UncleRay -- And you are going to tell me that those water sports draw more fans than ice hockey?!

Or that water sports actually can generate enough revenue to pay for themselves or sometimes make their school money?!

There are a lot more people that bowl or play darts, too, but neither sport would make a college any money. Neither sport is the kind that has kids growing up dreaming to become just like those who participate in at the pro level.
 
Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

There's no way this guy isn't JDUBBs, but either way you guys just keep getting sucked into arguing with them both. There's that whole saying, "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"...
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Come on Slap Shot, I thought you were smarter than that? But maybe not?
 
Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

I'm still worried about the necessary credentials to qualify as a native of Minnesota. I've been told that a large share of supposed Minnesota residents are actually Canadians on their way to Wisconsin.
 
Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

Back2BackU-MnPride2002 said:
And if Swimming and Diving was a big revenue sport, and/OR the kind of sport that kids throughout the world wanted nothing more than to play and be the best at, you might be right and Minnesota could probably just do that.
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In other words, Minnesota's "principles" extend only to the sports where it is convenient to maintain them, i.e. where there happens to be 1) a large pool of in-state talent, 2) in a sport that generates money. A principle that is only held when it is convenient is no principle at all.

And yet you expect the college hockey world to give up an extra dollop of respect to Minnesota for this amazing, principled stand, which according to the numbers Shirtless Guy has provided, extends to exactly one sport of one gender? Spare us.
 
Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

LynahFan said:
In other words, Minnesota's "principles" extend only to the sports where it is convenient to maintain them, i.e. where there happens to be 1) a large pool of in-state talent, 2) in a sport that generates money. A principle that is only held when it is convenient is no principle at all.

And yet you expect the college hockey world to give up an extra dollop of respect to Minnesota for this amazing, principled stand, which according to the numbers Shirtless Guy has provided, extends to exactly one sport of one gender? Spare us.
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No pools. Aren't you paying attention?
 
Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

And yet you expect the college hockey world to give up an extra dollop of respect to Minnesota for this amazing, principled stand, which according to the numbers Shirtless Guy has provided, extends to exactly one sport of one gender? Spare us.
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Honestly, I don't expect anything from you. lol

The college hockey world, and more importantly, the HOCKEY WORLD has already given Minnesota a whole big heap of extra respect. I doubt any other school will EVER catch Minnesota when it comes to the # of Hockey Hall of Famers they have, or the # of US Hockey Hall of Famers they have, or the # of Olympic Hall of Famers they have, or the # of Gold Medals that they've won, or the # of coaches given the honor to coach Olympic teams.

Though its only an Individual honor, Minnesota's 4 Hobey Baker winners is tops last I heard? I even read somewhere that the Hobey Baker Trophy was modeled after a Gopher player.

And the NHL seems to appreciate Minnesota, as they are the team most looked to when drafting talent to its teams. They are #1 last I checked in the # of players having played in the NHL, and I checked the official #s through 2011 I believe.



So you go ahead and give Minnesota nothing, for nothing is needed from you.

And that policy I mentioned does not extend to one sport of one gender either.


I know of at least a half a dozen Gopher teams dominated by Minnesotans.

85% of the Women's Soccer team are from Minnesota.
69% of the Men's Baseball team are from Minnesota.
66% of the Men's Cross-Country team are from Minnesota.
61% of the Women's Softball team are from Minnesota.
58% of the Men's Track team are from Minnesota.
58% of the Women's BB team are from Minnesota.

And of course,

85% of the Men's Hockey team are from Minnesota.


And Women's hockey, presently has 55% of its team members from Minnesota, but with 9 of its next 11 recruits coming in being from Minnesota, and replacing 7 out of staters, that will drive the percentage back up to 77%.


3 more are just one player above or below 50%. Women's Tennis, Men's Golf and Women's CC.


Women's Track is at 47%.
Mens Wrestling is at 44%.
Women's S&D is at 43%.
Women's Row is at 42%.


Women's VB, Men's BB, Men's Fb are all at 33%. And 33% is a healthy % for sports that pay all the bills for all the other sports.

Well, VB might pay for itself, or not be as big of a burden as all the other minor sports.



That's 19 of the 23 sports.

Out of the 4 remaining sports, 3 of them, Women's Golf, Women's Gym and Men's Gymnastics were 3 of the 4 sports that were going to get cut at the same time Men's Golf was going to get cut.



But what is that? Cutting the sports doing the LEAST amount of good for the tax paying residents of Minnesota?!

Yeah. Go figure, that doesn't make ANY SENSE. Unless of course you acknowledge that what I am arguing is a valid point, then it makes a lot of sense. Then it makes perfect sense.


And the team with the most Minnesotans on the squad of those 4 sports that were going to get cut, depended on those Minnesotans to help them win a Natl Title, which inspired other Minnesotans who love their golf(one of the top rated states in per capita golfers) to donate money to save Men's Golf. But it was a package deal, so the money had to be raised to save all 4 sports and it was.
 
Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

In other words, Minnesota's "principles" extend only to the sports where it is convenient to maintain them, i.e. where there happens to be 1) a large pool of in-state talent, 2) in a sport that generates money. A principle that is only held when it is convenient is no principle at all.
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You can try to purposely twist my words to make them say what you need them to say just so that you can character assassinate my school all you want, but it doesn't change the facts.



And for the most part, I'm talking about a principle the school held for over a hundred years. Have things changed? Yeah, I suppose they have? Even in the last 7 years since the last time I knew where everyone was from that played on each and every Gopher team they have, things have changed. I was a little surprised that the #s were as low as they are. But because things have started to change in the last decade or so, doesn't mean that's the way things were for the first 150 years of the Universities existence. The Big Ten isn't a conf with 10 teams anymore either. We have friggin Nebraska, PSU, Maryland and Rutgers in our conference now, with talk of UNC and Georgia Tech the next 2 targets. Talk is all about expanding a conference's media footprint. Things are changing a lot in our country. So many athletes now look at college sports as nothing but a stepping stone to professional sports. So sure, in light of all of this, the school may be slowly letting go of that principle. But that doesn't change the fact that was the guiding principle for well over 100 years.


First of all, it has nothing to do with convenience. We are talking about whats best for the University of Minnesota and in a broader sense, whats best for the State of Minnesota and the people of Minnesota.

2nd, where did those large pools of in-state talent come from???? Yeah, exactly, our principles put into practice.

3rd, Universities do not have money trees growing in the middle of their campuses, they are businesses, public service businesses. They do what it in the best interest of, in Minnesota's case, the state of Minnesota and the people of the state of Minnesota. Where now do you think the money comes from?! EH???

Let me ask you how many athletic programs do you think pay their own way? The Women's bb team at one time did pay their own way at Minnesota, but recently, I believe it was last year, went 2 million dollars in the hole. So where do you think the money comes to cover that 2 million? It doesn't come from thin air.

FOOTBALL and BASKETBALL pay all the bills.
 
Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

Back2BackU-MnPride2002 said:
You can try to purposely twist my words to make them say what you need them to say just so that you can character assassinate my school all you want, but it doesn't change the facts.
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I'm not character assassinating anything. Just stating the obvious - that Minnesota is no worse and no better than other similar universities.

2nd, where did those large pools of in-state talent come from???? Yeah, exactly, our principles put into practice.
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Again, if the principle causes the pool, then why doesn't Minnesota just do the same thing with swimming or gymnastics? There must be something different about - something unique to - men's hockey. Minnesota has taken advantage of that difference to adopt a policy specifically for hockey - the sport caused the principle at least as much as the other way around.
 
Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

Back2BackU-MnPride2002 said:
Honestly, I don't expect anything from you. lol

The college hockey world, and more importantly, the HOCKEY WORLD has already given Minnesota a whole big heap of extra respect. I doubt any other school will EVER catch Minnesota when it comes to the # of Hockey Hall of Famers they have, or the # of US Hockey Hall of Famers they have, or the # of Olympic Hall of Famers they have, or the # of Gold Medals that they've won, or the # of coaches given the honor to coach Olympic teams.

Though its only an Individual honor, Minnesota's 4 Hobey Baker winners is tops last I heard? I even read somewhere that the Hobey Baker Trophy was modeled after a Gopher player.

And the NHL seems to appreciate Minnesota, as they are the team most looked to when drafting talent to its teams. They are #1 last I checked in the # of players having played in the NHL, and I checked the official #s through 2011 I believe.
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Minnesota-Duluth has the most Hobey Baker Award winners at 5 now...
 
Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

Back2BackU-MnPride2002 said:
I even read somewhere that the Hobey Baker Trophy was modeled after a Gopher player.
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The model was a Goph's player from Richfield. And the sculptor was from Bloomington. And the award itself was started by The Decathalon Club, a group of civic boosters -- in Bloomington. That's not pride, that's a group of guys who'd never been anywhere else. It's still cool that their idea worked, don't get me wrong. But it doesn't get points for your program's accomplishments.
 
Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

Minnesota is a political unit, just like every other state. Like every other state, Minnesota does not have a homogenous population, or any unanimous opinions, or a state mandated college hockey program, or a credible claim that residence within Minnesota's invisible state lines confers superior athletic organization, strategy, or native talent - or that the appearance of hockey organization, strategy, or talent in Minnesota is more important than the appearance of these qualities in other states, or nations.
 
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Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

Minnesota-Duluth has the most Hobey Baker Award winners at 5 now...
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Shirtless Guy --

HA! Surprised I forgot about UMD's having 5, seeing as they are my 2nd favorite hockey team.


Dave StPaul --

The factual part of your post was correct, but the opinion part? How do you know whether that group of people had ever been anywhere or not? Were you a part of that group or something? It's too bad they didn't start up the award 10 years earlier, lol, but that wouldn't even be fair then. As for trying to score points?! lol Who said that was what I was trying to do? And even if I was, why wouldn't that be worth points? Seems to my recollection I recall a conversation with fb fans where the subject of who inspired the actual Heisman Trophy seemed semi-important to football fans?!

How about the fact that of the candidates considered as the namesake of the award, a former Gopher was one of them? I'll go look it up, and in fact, there may have been 2 Gophers in the running?
 
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Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

Osorojo said:
Minnesota is a political unit, just like every other state. Like every other state, Minnesota does not have a homogenous population, or any unanimous opinions, or a state mandated college hockey program, or a credible claim that residence within Minnesota's invisible state lines confers superior athletic organization, strategy, or native talent - or that the appearance of hockey organization, strategy, or talent in Minnesota is more important than the appearance of these qualities in other states, or nations.
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But no other state has a hockey founding father who liked to wear dresses.

That we know of.
 
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Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

I'm not character assassinating anything. Just stating the obvious - that Minnesota is no worse and no better than other similar universities.
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LynahFan --

But the thing is, its NOT obvious. It's only obvious in your biases and narrow opinion, which you already had made up your mind about before the conversation with me started, and which you are further basing your opinion on a SERIOUS lack of pertinent and relevant information.


You already were not only mistaken about this being a phenomenon in just one sport and of only one gender, you weren't even close to right, you were so far off its laughable.



See, this is where speaking on a topic, out of ignorance is not a good thing to do. See, I have experience and knowledge of the situation. I've followed every single one of the Gopher teams, including knowing where all of the players are from in seasons past. I haven't done a great job of keeping up with the teams the last 5 or so years, but something about starting up a new business, all while raising up a teenager on my own and taking care of elderly parents who are sporadically needing more and more help from me, while maintaining my regular job can kind of put things like following your favorite sports teams closely on hold until the kid moves out and your schedule starts to lighten up. So I may not have been all over the fact that things have started to change a bit with some of the sports, and I think that I can point to a specific times and events and circumstances such as new leadership, new teams added to the conf, new lines of thinking as far as conference goals, and one of the biggest factors, is just the HUGE increase in simply paying for college sports now. But that's an issue I can address in more detail at a later time, if needed.





But back to what I was saying about you not knowing about what you are talking about. You look only at this last year's data and claim that as proof, end of story, no more to discuss. I retort and say, no, it hasn't been that way in the past, and you claim that I am just full of it, that I don't know what I'm talking about, etc., or maybe you aren't saying that, and you would be smart not to be saying that, because you'd be WRONG.



Let's look at just ONE example. The Women's hockey team. Criticism has been made that if the # of good players coming out of Minnesota is so high, how could it ever be that the Women's team only has 50% Minnesotans on it????


Well, it isn't 50%, its 55%. And in the 16 years the Women's hockey team has been around, this year is the 15th lowest percentage of Minnesotans they've ever had.


I tried telling you all that things like that fluctuate. Just last season the team had 15 Minnesotans to 9 out of staters. And not only are 6 of the 7 new recruits coming in next year From Minnesota, the team is losing 4 out of staters to graduation. So instantly the percentage is going to shoot back up, and after 3 out of the next 4 coming in the year after that are also Minnesotans, with 3 out of staters graduating, the team will be back up to 77%.


And not only that, but EVERY YEAR but one(2001) from 1998 to 2010 saw the team loaded up with at least 62% Minnesotans, and some years it was closer to 75%.

1998 - 17-6 - 74%
1999 - 15-8 - 65%
2000 - 14-7 - 67%*
2001 - 13-11 - 54%
2002 - 14-8 - 64%
2003 - 13-7 - 65%
2004 - 12-7 - 63%*
2005 - 17-5 - 77%*
2006 - 16-5 - 76%
2007 - 16-6 - 73%
2008 - 14-7 - 67%
2009 - 15-8 - 65%
2010 - 13-8 - 62%


2011 - 11-10 - 52%
2012 - 15-9 - 62%*


So in 16 years of existence, the team has NEVER dipped below 52%. Every single roster has had MORE Minnesotans than out of staters.

ALL 4 Title winning teams had an average of 67% Minnesotans on the roster. Hopefully that percentage drops in a few weeks here.



So you and your friend took one year out of 16 and tried to make an argument out of it. Meaning you had 6.25% of the relevant data.


Do you normally come to conclusions on a matter with only 6.25% of the relevant data???
 
Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

DaveStPaul --


It's simple. The accomplishment was having 4 Hobey Baker Award winners come out of our program. The thing about the Trophy being modeled after a Gopher was just, what would you call it, an embellishment, and after thought. Writing about the Hobey Baker Award triggered my memory of reading about it being modeled after a Gopher, that's all. It's what happens in a discussion or conversation at times, discussing one topic leads to discussion of something similar, something tied to the topic being discussed.
 
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