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$ money money money $

Re: $ money money money $

Prof, completely unrelated here, but you're the only statistics guy I know, so I figured I'd ask you...

In this recent post on the Language Log, Mark Liberman discusses and analyzes a statistical analysis of the frequency of the use on the first-person pronoun in popular songs year-to-year in the 1980-2007 time frame. Anyway, in his post he shows how the graph given in the original document (which is linked to in the blog post) doesn't exactly (if at all) show what the numbers show, and says "it seems to me that their Figure 1 is superfluous at best and misleading at worst."

My question for you is this: Is Mr. Liberman missing something here, or is he right in saying that this graphical representation is, based on the numbers provided, greatly misleading?

Reading through it, it looks as though the graph with the apparent strong association is an example of what I call "pick and choose" statistics - he has picked the analysis to fit a predetermined conclusion rather than the other way around. The graph shows a strong association, but he also shows a lot of data that doesn't support his claim.
 
Re: $ money money money $

Reading through it, it looks as though the graph with the apparent strong association is an example of what I call "pick and choose" statistics - he has picked the analysis to fit a predetermined conclusion rather than the other way around. The graph shows a strong association, but he also shows a lot of data that doesn't support his claim.
I always hated semi-arbitrary groupings (ie, 1980-1984), it's a great way to mask variation. Especially when not every grouping is of the same size
 
Re: $ money money money $


Unfortunately it does. For good reads about such things there are

Huff, D. (1954). How to lie with statistics. New York:Norton

Seife, C (2010). Proofiness:The dark arts of mathematical deception. New York: Viking

Both of these give good examples of how people can use statistics to intentionally mislead people. As a professional, I've always taught people that such behavior is totally unethical.
 
Re: $ money money money $

I believe that if you look hard at how competitive schools are at NCAA Div. III and take a look at the following schools for example:

Elmira - Average Student pays $10,000 or less.
Adrian - Avg. Student athlete pays $8,000-$13,000
Norwich - Average Student pays $12,000
Oswego - Average student pays $8,000-$15,000
Plattsburgh - Average Student pays $8,000-$12,500
St Norbets - Average student pays $12,000

You will find a recipe for success. 1. Affordable tuition and financial aid for there students 2. Own an ice arena 3. Have a full time Assistant Coach. If you great support with all three of those things you have a shot at a National Tournament. Also in 9 out of 10 cases the private school will end up making the tuition more affordable than the state school. What a coincidence!
 
Re: $ money money money $

I believe that if you look hard at how competitive schools are at NCAA Div. III and take a look at the following schools for example:

Elmira - Average Student pays $10,000 or less.
Adrian - Avg. Student athlete pays $8,000-$13,000
Norwich - Average Student pays $12,000
Oswego - Average student pays $8,000-$15,000
Plattsburgh - Average Student pays $8,000-$12,500
St Norbets - Average student pays $12,000

You will find a recipe for success. 1. Affordable tuition and financial aid for there students 2. Own an ice arena 3. Have a full time Assistant Coach. If you great support with all three of those things you have a shot at a National Tournament. Also in 9 out of 10 cases the private school will end up making the tuition more affordable than the state school. What a coincidence!

I would like to know where you get your information - my daughter graduated from Elmira last year - I can assure you it cost her old man north of $40k a year...unless you show up with a 4.0 and maintain that gpa to keep a true academic scholarship, you are not wearing Purple and Gold for 10 bills a year no mater how hard your slap shot is....
 
Re: $ money money money $

I would like to know where you get your information - my daughter graduated from Elmira last year - I can assure you it cost her old man north of $40k a year...unless you show up with a 4.0 and maintain that gpa to keep a true academic scholarship, you are not wearing Purple and Gold for 10 bills a year no mater how hard your slap shot is....

Elmira College:
Cost of Attendance $48,600
Average Financial Aid Award $26,911
Average Out-of-Pocket: $21,689

Plattsburgh

Norwich

Oswego

Adrian
Cost of Attendance $35,855
Average Financial Aid Award $20,848
Average Out-of-Pocket: $15,707

St Norbert

Middlebury
Cost of Attendance $54,450
Average Financial Aid Award $35,197
Average Out-of-Pocket: $19,253

Clarkson
Cost of Attendance $49,466
Average Financial Aid Award $32,449
Average Out-of-Pocket: $17,017
 
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Re: $ money money money $

Elmira College:
Cost of Attendance $48,600
Average Financial Aid Award $26,911
Average Out-of-Pocket: $21,689

Plattsburgh

Norwich

Oswego

Adrian
Cost of Attendance $35,855
Average Financial Aid Award $20,848
Average Out-of-Pocket: $15,707

St Norbert

Middlebury
Cost of Attendance $54,450
Average Financial Aid Award $35,197
Average Out-of-Pocket: $19,253

Clarkson
Cost of Attendance $49,466
Average Financial Aid Award $32,449
Average Out-of-Pocket: $17,017

Norm is the stats guru for sure, man where do you get all those links you come up with......good job keep'em coming
 
Not for our friends who live North of the boarder. They have very reliable tax returns. Remember we are talking about hockey players. Not many of them come from India. But, you are right, there are other places that are not so reliable.
That's not cricket!!!

However, I've heard that they're very good at supporting the puck.
 
Re: $ money money money $

Remember these are averages. Some pay more and some pay less. It should also be note that with the excpetion of Adrian (and I think it is a typo) the amounts are for the average STUDENT not just athletes. So all students benefit not just athletes.
 
Re: $ money money money $

I think the average cost to attend is much less important than the amount of financial aid available to Canadian students. A school could offer extraordinarily generous (and legal) financial aid to American students and have little competitive advantage, if they offer little or no financial aid to Canadians. A school's recruiting base expands exponentially if they can offer meaningful aid to Canadians.
 
Re: $ money money money $

I think the average cost to attend is much less important than the amount of financial aid available to Canadian students. A school could offer extraordinarily generous (and legal) financial aid to American students and have little competitive advantage, if they offer little or no financial aid to Canadians. A school's recruiting base expands exponentially if they can offer meaningful aid to Canadians.

This is true, but has it has been shown, if you don't get enough Canadian non-athletes, you had better not try it.
 
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Re: $ money money money $

Remember these are averages. Some pay more and some pay less. It should also be note that with the excpetion of Adrian (and I think it is a typo) the amounts are for the average STUDENT not just athletes. So all students benefit not just athletes.

NCAA Division III requires that student-athletes and their financial aid packages be NO different than the average student (i.e. need, non-athletic merit, etc).
 
Re: $ money money money $

Elmira College:
Cost of Attendance $48,600
Average Financial Aid Award $26,911
Average Out-of-Pocket: $21,689

Well it's not 10 bills...:D So not qualifying for aid "cost" me 20 bills - a high class problem if there ever was one.:rolleyes:

The aid available and paid by private schools retailing close to $50k/yr kinda makes the whole SUNYAC B.S. argument...well, B.S.:D
 
Re: $ money money money $

Norm is the stats guru for sure, man where do you get all those links you come up with......good job keep'em coming
search "cost to attend _college name_" and then pick the collegedata.com hit. Click on the "money matters" tab.

Note: not all colleges report average aid values.
 
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Re: $ money money money $

search "cost to attend _college name_" and then pick the collegedata.com hit. Click on the "money matters" tab.

Note: not all colleges report average aid values.

The specific Google search key I used was:
site:collegedata.com cost college name

Norwich is an example of a school with "Not Reported" data.

To use Google to search the US Department of Education site for cost info, try:
site:studentaid2.ed.gov college name
 
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Re: $ money money money $

From the NCAA Nooz of the Day:

DIII aid violations may generate broader allegations

By Gary Brown
NCAA.org

The NCAA enforcement staff may start including allegations of an institution’s “failure to monitor” or a “lack of institutional control” in future major infractions cases that involve violations of Division III financial aid rules.

The potential to apply such allegations comes in light of several major infractions cases in the last three years that have involved institutions granting financial aid to student-athletes disproportionately or distinguishable from other students, which is contrary to bedrock Division III principles.

Additionally, many of the more than 40 secondary violations cases uncovered by the committee during this time involved “leadership” grants or other awards not specifically stated as athletically related but clearly with ties to athletics participation.

The Division III membership adopted legislation effective in 2005 requiring institutions to report financial aid packages for freshmen and transfers as a way to demonstrate compliance with Bylaw 15. Since then, the enforcement staff has not applied “failure to monitor” or “lack of institutional control” in major infractions cases – despite it being within that group’s purview – in order to allow enough time for the membership to be educated about the legislation’s implementation, expectations and impact.

But the enforcement staff is now wondering whether the infractions cases in and of themselves are proving to be enough of a deterrent, especially since it anticipates that the Division III Financial Aid Committee will forward additional, potentially major cases for the Division III Committee on Infractions’ review.

Thus, the enforcement staff has indicated that it will begin to “carefully scrutinize future financial aid cases to determine if it is appropriate to include an allegation of failure to monitor and/or a lack of institutional control.”

The item was reported at the Division III Management Council’s meeting in Indianapolis on Monday and Tuesday. It was an informational item for the Council, since the enforcement staff has the authority to begin including those allegations at its discretion.

Division III proposed the financial aid reporting procedures in 2004 as part of a comprehensive initiative to ensure that all Division III programs were being conducted in accordance with the division’s philosophy, which includes strict adherence to not awarding financial aid based on athletics ability.

The reporting process helped in that it identified and then corrected many institutional processes in which schools were inadvertently violating the intent of Bylaw 15. It also uncovered a few major violations, which the Financial Aid Committee thought would be enough to influence behavior. However, given that some inappropriate financial aid practices appear to remain, the enforcement staff is considering applying harsher measures.

In a related matter, the Management Council at its April meeting agreed to ask the Division III Committee on Infractions to consider granting the enforcement staff the discretion to publicly disclose any secondary violation regarding consideration of athletics leadership, ability, participation or performance within the student financial aid awarding process.

These violations have been prevalent in most of the cases referred to the enforcement staff in recent years. Most have been processed as secondary violations, since they are usually isolated or inadvertent and have not resulted in a recruiting advantage. Because they are secondary violations, they traditionally are not reported publicly.

The Division III Financial Aid Committee, however, noted that many of these violations could have been avoided if the institution reviewed its awarding policies for compliance with NCAA legislation. Public reprimand, as a potential sanction for violations such as these, would provide incentive for institutions to ensure their policies comply with NCAA bylaws.

Other highlights

In other action at the Division III Management Council’s April 11-12 meeting, members:

Supported a “dashboard indicators” pilot program at the behest of presidents who seek more accurate data to benchmark their institutional spending against selected peer groups.
Noted that in accordance with the resolution at the Convention to study the appropriate bench size at NCAA championships, team sports committees (as well as the golf and tennis committees) have been asked to provide feedback regarding the appropriate number of individuals in the squad size and bench size, and the appropriate number of non-athletes in the official traveling party, for their respective sport by April 15. Data requested are (1) the 2010-11 NCAA squad size; (2) the 2009-10 average squad size for all institutions sponsoring the sport; (3) the average squad size of institutions in the championship field from 2005 to 2010; (4) the average squad size of institutions competing at the finals site from 2005 to 2010; and (5) the average number of participants per year in the sport for institutions competing at the finals site from 2005 to 2010. The Division III Championships Committee will review the information during its May 10 teleconference and May 31-June 1 in-person meeting and recommend appropriate adjustments in advance of the July 1 deadline for communication to the membership.

Approved in concept a modification of wording that clarifies that an institutional voting delegate must be present at the NCAA Division III business session to meet the legislated attendance requirement (rather than the current legislation suggesting that the institution will have satisfied the attendance requirement if a conference representative casts the institution’s vote).

Approved attendance at the Northeast compliance seminar pilot in 2012 as a means of satisfying the NCAA Regional Rules Seminars attendance requirement. The Division III Membership Committee approved the pilot after eight Northeast conferences asked to conduct a compliance seminar at one of their member institutions on a biennial basis, beginning in spring 2012. The request also sought to use the Northeast compliance seminar toward the once-in-three-years legislative requirement to attend the NCAA Regional Rules Seminars. The pilot will be conducted during the 2011-12 academic year to gathering additional information to determine whether a Division III-specific compliance seminar(s) is feasible on a more permanent basis.

Noted the launch of the Division III Facebook page designed to build a fan base within the Division III community and further understanding of the division’s purpose and success to the general public.
 
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